#199 Casey McQuillen
Whether touring extensively across the U.S. and Europe, gaining a loyal fan base from the millions who watched her as a powerhouse vocalist on Season 13 of American Idol, appearing on The Kelly Clarkson Show, or having her most recent single played on CMT, MTV, and Sirius XM ‘The Pulse,’ Casey as accomplished so much in her short career.
On the touring front, Casey has headlined her own sold out shows in New York and Boston. She’s also supported incredible acts like James Morisson, Stephen Kellogg, Kate Voegele, Tyler Hilton, Eric Hutchison, Clark Beckham, David Ryan Harris, and Nick Howard. The songsmith has organically accumulated tens of thousands of followers on social media and millions of views and streams of her music online, largely because her songs are authentic, intimate and relatable.
Additionally, Casey has performed her anti-bullying concert series at over one hundred middle and high schools for over 40,000 students. The “You Matter” Tour was recognized by the UN Foundation and was recently featured on The Kelly Clarkson Show.
Casey recently release her debut album Skinny which includes the hit single ‘In & Out’, a duet with Jon McLaughlin, which found its way into several major playlists, being spotlighted by the likes of Apple Music and Amazon Music, as well featured on MTV and CMT, and Sirius XM ‘The Pulse’.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a songwriter trysts with Casey McQuillan.
So I like to start the podcast by getting you as the artist to simply introduce yourself. Tell us who are you and where do you come from?
Casey Mcquillen: Okay. My name is Casey McQuillan. I am a singer songwriter and I'm from a little town called Boston, Massachusetts, but I currently live in Brooklyn, New York
Rae Leigh: oh, wow. That's a big move. How did that come about?
Casey Mcquillen: well, you know, I went to, um, luckily enough, uh, a really good music college in the us called Berkeley college music. Actually, a lot of Australians go to Berkeley, um, happens to be in Boston where I'm from.
And so I was able to go to college where I'm from, which was really great. But, um, quickly after graduating, I realized that the music scene really there's, there's like four cities in the United States in my humble opinion, that it's the easiest to, to meet people. I think it's New York, LA Nashville and Atlanta, depending on your genre, that is different where you wanna go.
And so Boston and New York are actually kind of close. They're only like a four hour drive. So that was my choice. So I could. I could still go home and see my mom when I want to. Um, but I love New York, so it's great.
Rae Leigh: yeah, that all sounds very practical. I remember applying for a university when I was leaving home, thinking that it was the closest university at a home, um, because it was called Latrobe and there was like a place called Latrobe valley near my home. But the university was actually like much further away. It just had the same name. And
Casey Mcquillen: Oh,
Rae Leigh: made that mistake so
Casey Mcquillen: classic 18, right?Absolutely class. Do, do we Google it now? Why Google? It doesn't matter.
Rae Leigh: makes total sense that if it's called that It would be there
Casey Mcquillen: Yeah, of course. That's somebody.
Rae Leigh: not my fault. I don't think
Casey Mcquillen: No, I don't think so either.
Rae Leigh: anyway. All right. So tell me, how did you
get into songwriting? Where's that passion come from for you? When did it start?
Casey Mcquillen: well, you know, I have been poorly writing since I was a really little kid. Like it was some, it was never something I consciously. Did for the first time? Um, I was always really obsessed with like lyrics and memorizing lyrics. And I remember like the first song I memorized at like, like four and I was so proud.
I knew all the lyrics. And then I remember I memorizing my first album, like top to bottom
Rae Leigh: really?
Casey Mcquillen: yeah. I just like, I, it was like, I just, I really found it so fascinating and remember being a really little kid and listening to Destiny's child, uh, emotion, that classic song. And I remember like literally being in my mom's minivan, listening to the song and my like cassette player and looking out the window and thinking, I can't wait until I'm old enough that I can look, write songs that like, are like, so like deep, because I'll have so, and now it's so funny to listen that song, cuz it's so cheesy, you know, but like at the time, right, I was like, oh my God, this is adulthood.
Um, but so the first time I, I would always write these little songs and I didn't play an instrument and.
I felt, I was also like dramatic in a middle child and like 11 and was always writing songs about like, nobody loves me, like right. And my parents, you know, they were, I was always up to things. So, you know, they'd be like, that's great case or whatever.
Um, and I, I remember I wrote, I decided I needed to learn to play the guitar. I needed to learn to how to back myself up. And so I like learned a couple chords, you know, um, I actually, and it had like a guitar class when I was like in the seventh grade, like one of those like little quick things. And we learned to play American pie, um, where I learned to play American pie, but it's got like all the chords.
Right. And so I, I wrote at the time I was going through my grandfather, who I was very
close with, happened to be passing away.
He was old and these things happened, but it was very sad at the time.
And I wrote my first song about that. To the guitar and performed it for people for the first time. And in some ways it's very indicative of my entire career because I feel like I've used songwriting.
I'm a pretty happy person. I like to think. Um, a lot of my songs are really sad and I think that's because I tend to try to figure out my own thoughts and feelings and like put them on paper. And if I can put them on paper, I can understand them. And additionally, I feel so seen, I was just thinking about how this moment on tour.
It's funny. But today I was getting, I was in the chiropractor. They were like put stuff. So I was like meditating, just laying there. And I was thinking about this moment on stage that I had recently. And I was thinking it was probably one of the best moments in my life. And I think it's because I felt so unbelievably connected to all the people in the room.
And for me, that's always been the point of songwriting. It was when I was 11 and wrote a song about my grandfather and was trying to express myself and those emotions. And it, it is now,
Rae Leigh: that's incredible. It's such a therapeutic thing that I think we intuitively do. I did the same thing. Like as a kid, you don't, you don't know what you're doing. It's just, it's an emotive process that your body just takes you down this journey of, of writing songs. How do you think that that's impacted.
Your mental health and your way of just like living in life. Because for me, I feel like if I, and actually I've had every therapist told me that if I didn't have music, I'd probably be dead or addicted, addicted to drugs or something, because it's been such a, a good therapy and you've gotta have a way to get it out.
Right. So like how, how has it impacted you? Have you done much reflection on your, your life as a songwriter and how it's been that emotional outlet?
Casey Mcquillen: Well, it's so interesting to think about, I think about these. That's why I'm a songwriter. I think about these things all the time, but you know, it's funny because am I very comfortable expressing emotion because I'm a songwriter or am I a songwriter because I'm so comfortable expressing emotion, right?
This is something I, I recently my, my title track on my album, not to like plug myself really hard really quickly, but it's a song called skinny that I wrote. Not being thin anymore and the how uncomfortable I can be sometimes. And it's a song truly about my moments of the deepest insecurities that I have, not the moments where I put on, put on dress today.
And I was like, this looks good. What am I talking about? Like, I have those moments too, but I tend not to write about those because I find the ones where I'm heading from myself so much more interesting. And I was talking to my sister and I was saying that all these people on this tour I was on, you know, were coming up to me, girls that look like me, women who look like me and were a lot older saying that it was like the first time they'd ever vocalized it.
You know, men who were like te crying next to their wives being like, I feel like I understand my wife a lot better having heard that song, which is unbelievable, but it's funny, cuz I said to my sister, I was
like, It's just like, don't we, we, if you're, if we have these insecurities, we all think about it all the time.
And she was like, no, like other people have the insecurity and like, don't necessarily like, sit there and think about it.
Like, think what, how, how would I put that into words? And sh, and she was like, that's a very uniquely you thing. And she's, and, and, and she's like, you're like that in all of your life.
And it was really interesting because I had never thought about it that way, that like the same reason, I'll go to a friend really quickly and be like, Hey, you know, I was feeling really uncomfortable at the party last weekend. And like, this is probably a me thing, but I did not wanna, I just wanted to talk to you about it because I'm feeling weird that instinct to do that is also the same person.
Who's like, wow. I like was so sad at the bar last night. Like, I think it's not because the music was loud. I think it's cuz I was feeling insecure about my body and like that's the same. So I think. I likely have a pretty natural inclination to that. But I think through the act of kid consciously songwriting all the time, it's led me to have like a positive reward to engaging in negative, like an immediate positive reward to engaging in negative or analyzing my negative thoughts and really like weeding them out.
Whereas I think a lot of people is, I think a lot of positivity that can come from that, but it usually is months down the road that you get that relief or you have that conversation with somebody, but for us, right. We can kind of do that on our own a little bit. And you have this product that you're really proud of.
And what's interesting about writing about your insecurities is then you go on stage and introduce yourself through PE to people through your insecurities, which is something that.
it makes, I was saying, I felt like I had, literally, I was thinking it was probably the best moment of my life on stage in Europe, but , I was singing songs about how about like the, that insecurity.That's still very fresh for me. And so that's right. It's like with, with truth comes connection, but it doesn't, it's not always easy, you know
Rae Leigh: Oh, truth is like the hardest thing. Like I know that people downplay like country music when they say three chords in the truth or things like that. But it's like, the truth is the hardest thing that most of us are running away from that we all put these masks on.
Um, and I, I love, I love that, like that vulnerability and that bravery and courage to stand up and say, yeah, I'm insecure. You know, like that, cuz I think we.all are, especially as women, I don't know how any female could not be insecure in the, the Western world that we live in with the amount of advertising and everything that they're trying to sell to us.They sell to us viamaking us more insecure about the way we look and that, you know, by having their product those insecurities might magically go away, which they don't of course, but we all buy into it.
Casey Mcquillen: Yeah, we all. do myself included.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, absolutely. And like, you know, I I'll definitely, I was never a big fashion person or makeup person growing up.
I grew up on the country on a farm. No one cares about what I was wearing or anything like that until I went to the city and I'm around it all the time. I'm the university. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I actually feel kind of good when I wear makeup. And like, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it to, to do it.
But, um, it's also something that I feel like, like you said, we
take it and we, we feel it and we go, oh, that doesn't feel good. Let's just push that down. and like, not talk about it or pretend like I don't have that and just put on this like fake confidence, um, and you know, fake it till you make it. But then there's a, there's a poisonous, toxic emotional thing.And I think that happens when we do that. Um, and like, I think that's amazing that through your music, other people have been given thewords to, to maybe let it out, you know, do you feel like that's been like that.
Casey Mcquillen: Yes, which is really, um, you know, I feel like
people use the word, like it's humbling and they just mean that they're like bragging. Do you know what people do? They're like, I'm so humbled to win this Grammy. And you're like, are you, or you seem pretty jazz,
Rae Leigh: you're PR You can be proud of yourself.
Casey Mcquillen: but yeah, they said they mean proud. But I think when I
say that it is really an incredibly humbling experience.
To have people emotionally be long term affected by something I've created. I mean, that, as in the sense that like, I don't understand it. Like it's so much something I say to my therapist all the time. It's like, I feel sometimes I feel like an artist poser. Like, I feel like I'm not artisty enough for being an artist because I'm not like, oh my God, like, I don't have like, like music notes, just like tattooed coming outta my eyes.
And like, you know, I went to Berkeley. Like I know all the people who like in a, for a lot of those people it's authentic. Like they live and breathe music. They're they know every person who did everything. And every first and I was not raised in a musical household. Um, we listen to James Taylor sometimes.
And in the, in the top 40 radio, that was. I really discovered music on my own. And I, I discovered it through the lens of songwriting and then like enjoying songwriting. It's always been about the story for me more than the music for me in a way though. I, one of my, one of my lines is that, you know, um, a great melody with bad lyrics is, is a
hit and
and a great, great lyrics at the bad melody is just a poem. So like we're in the business of songwriting and melody is super important in helping engage people. But for me, the melody is always about keeping people engaged with the story, and I'm not, it doesn't have to be dark. I, my, my new album, there's a lot of like upbeat things that I feel are very authentic and, and true.
Um, But I've never felt artsy enough to call myself an artist. And it's funny because I, I was describing probably the pressure of having written this song skinny and how painful it was to sing it for people. And it is a lot when you meet people who are kind of like having an emotional experience based on, and they wanna, they wanna connect with you after a show.
And maybe you're not you, the person aren't in a space where you feel like you can take that in, but you, the artist has to. And I said to him, like he said something like, yeah, that's what, that's what artists do is they like, they, they, they make, they make emotional paths for us to go down. And I was like, I'm not an artist.
Rae Leigh: Oh, yay. You are
Casey Mcquillen: how well, but right. But, but like, I, like, you know, I, I don't know. It's, it's, it's interesting about like how we see ourselves. Right. And so I write my songs because I own sad and I write them and then we, as a team are like, okay, well, how are we gonna work at this? Right. But like, when I'm sitting there writing it, I'm not being like, Ugh, some woman in Wales is just gonna cry her mascara off, listening to this.
Like, I don't think of it that way. Um, so it's so crazy when that's what it ends up. Ha being,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I think it's important that you love what you do and that you love the song. And then if anyone else likes it, well, that's just abonus. Like, you know, if you are releasing something because you think people will like it, but you don't necessarily like it. Well, if other people don't like it, you were like, well, that was a waste of time.whereas if you love it, then it doesn't really matter if anyone else likes it or connects to it, Someone in the worldwill, if they hear it Um, and it may not be straight away. it may be, you know, 30 years from now, you hear of that these days songs from 30
years ago coming up and
Casey Mcquillen: I, you know, that song is like, if I do God, do God that song,
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Casey Mcquillen: on TikTok.
It's number six on the pop charge in the us right now. It came out in the eighties.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: crazy. Like I was thinking I, yeah, I was really, I felt old cuz I got to push this TikTok. That was like the
top, uh, 10 pop song, like pop dance songs.And I literally knew two of them. I was like, I'm officially old. I've never heard these
Rae Leigh: Oh, see, I, I, get to pretend like I'm not too old because I was sheltered and I was only allowed to listen to like secular Christian music when I was a kid. So
Casey Mcquillen: well you probably have a great ear from
Rae Leigh: was just naive. Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: Cause secular Christians, man. Talk about using melody to uh, Make sure that there is an emotional, the desired emotional impact. And so you grow up,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: up. Oh yeah. There's whole books on that. I'm on that side of I'm on the side of TikTok that like kind of breaks down how music has such a strong hold over people emotionally that it could be considered manipulative to use it in certain settings that when somebody is that you are, there is an aspect of it that,
you know, could be, could be dangerous, but that, you know, it's, it's a really thin line because every, every culture ever uses music as part of their religious practice, but we are becoming, we're getting certain sex are becoming so scientific with it.Um, and it's interesting cuz I feel like we all know all the, all the musicians, we know people who play in these bands and it's very conscious the choices that they make in order
Rae Leigh: Well, we, they do it in filmmaking as well, you know, like jaws, duh, and like, I mean, it just it's, it's very much obviously a tool.
Casey Mcquillen: but it's like, you know, you could say, I would say like, if you were to makelike a documentary that you were trying to getpeople to change their political beliefs coming out of it, and you use music, that's a form of manipulation. Right.
But if you are having a religious ceremony and you're trying to get people to commit to the religious and you use music on bur it's, like, it goes the whole thing. But when you're try it, it really is really interesting as musicians. Like what is it's like, we have this superpower
to create an emotional response in people that they think is coming from just inside themselves, but it's not right.
It's coming from outside them. It's coming from us. And we are choosing things on purpose to elicit that emotional response. And so I think if you tell somebody this emotion, this is all you, this is all you that just, that just spoke through you. Well, that's not exactly true, isn't it? We knew if you used the happy chord here and sad cord here, Christando here.It someone's gonna cry. That'show it
Rae Leigh: yeah. um, and you are like, like we said before, they, you know, man, uh, advertising and things like that,
Casey Mcquillen: Mm-hmm the perfect
Rae Leigh: and, and at
perfect example, you know, you got a Coca-Cola ad with people dancing on, in skinny bikinis, on a rooftop somewhere.
Casey Mcquillen: Hundred percent.
Rae Leigh: if I have a Coke, that's what I'm gonna feel like.you.
Casey Mcquillen: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rae Leigh: Like the music is so important in that, that manipulation. Um, and yet you're right. It's not something that maybe a lot of people are aware of. And so they're not making conscious decisions. Um, and that's interesting because there is a lot of debate around, um, abuse with people in authority and authority comes from knowledge and lack of knowledge is when you're vulnerable.
Casey Mcquillen: Yeah. Yeah. AndI
Rae Leigh: interesting debate
Casey Mcquillen: I know, but I think music has more of a role in that than
we sometimes consciously speak about, you know, the role yeah. In ads. I mean, it's so true. I was
just writing some sync stuff with some friends and I was like, so my image for this is there's like a woman walking down Harlem, but it's not actually Harlem.
It's really clean. And there's like pretty like flags. And she's got like an AF, like an Afro and she's like, cool. And she's selling AirPods and they're like, cool. Got it. And they knew like, and I was like, that's the commercial? And it's like, that's not a real commercial that I know of. But like, we all know what that commercial would sound like in order to sell that product.
And it's interesting that I used visuals and a goal, which is to sell AirPods, to describe the kind of sound that I wanted to make
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's um, so incredible. And we haven't actually talked about that as a thing in this podcast, like so many podcasts in, but it's interesting that, um, I think it's important that we're aware of it as songwriters and, and melody. Like you said, some people don't, they kind of offset melody. Like some people are melody people.
I'm a melody person. Some people are lyricists that's, that's fine. And that's great when they come together and they make great music, but I find that there are people that also, when they're listening to a song. They're only really hearing the melody first. And then if they really listen to it multiple like lots and lots and lots of times, then they might pick up on the story.
And then there's people who like, like me. I actually, when I'm listening to a song, I hate it when I can't hear the lyrics. Like, I wanna hear the story. What is this song telling me? Because I wanna be able to make a conscious decision as to whether I want that story. Like if I, if I agree with it or not, um, and that message, you know, I wanna support good art.
That's sending out good messages. Um, and sometimes I listen to lyrics of the song and I feel like it's more maybe encouraging suicidal behavior in youth. And I'm like, I don't wanna support that. So let's not, you know, so it's, it is this very powerful and, and we can manipulate different ages through that.So it's interesting, but it's also important to be aware of.
Casey Mcquillen: Yeah. Like something, something I say with my music is that, you know, my goal is to be catchy enough.
That you, I come on your release radar and you're like, oh, that's a pretty song. And you save it. But then on your, you do that, you know, you're at work and you're like listening to your Friday release radar.
And you're like, oh my God, that was, I like that. And you do that kind of like unconscious conscious thing, where you go and you save the song cause you like liked it. And then my goal,
Rae Leigh: goal
Casey Mcquillen: I have to BA I have to pass that threshold. I have to catch you when you hear it, when you're in the grocery store and it comes on, you know, I just got a message from somebody who was like scrolling channels and saw my music video on and like the MTV channel that cuz it just got placed, which is great.
And she said like it stopped her in her tracks. And then she went and found it and listened all thing, which is like so amazing. But that's the goal, right? Is like you have something that's beautiful enough that it catches you. And then when you're on the ride home and you go to listen to those songs, you say that day, that's when I hope to become your favorite song.
Cause I'm gonna become a song. I'm gonna become a song you like through melody. I'm gonna become your favorite song through lyric.
Rae Leigh: I like that that's really, really, well thought out. Cool. So what
Casey Mcquillen: talk about manipulative
Rae Leigh: Hey, now I like it. You gotta do what you gotta do. and you've got such a powerful message. So tell me about why it was that you felt with this album and the tour that you've just done. What's the backstory or what made it so important that this is what You wanted to choose? Cuz we do all like we could pick anything, right? Um, what's what's the heartbreaking moment for this.
Casey Mcquillen: um, and you mean in, in terms of writing this album?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yep. Like you've talked a little bit about insecurities and, and touching people in that way, but what's, what's your journey to this point?
Casey Mcquillen: You know, this album was written over a really
long period of time. It was actually gonna be an EP that was about to be dropped right before the pandemic. And for obvious reasons, I pulled it to not drop. And then throughout the pandemic, I kept writing and I kept producing, you know, we all figured out how to write via zoom.We all figured out how to produce over, uh, all the fancy apps that they have now. And, um, I figured out how to record my own vocals
Rae Leigh: Well done.
Casey Mcquillen: as,and you know, the album from AEP into an album in that time. And funnily enough, most of the songs that I added during the pandemic were the happiest.
Rae Leigh: wow.
Casey Mcquillen: writing and I just didn't want to write about it was escapism.
It was a form of escapism. I didn't, I wasn't ready to analyze what I was experiencing. My therapist says that you can do two things. You can recover for trauma, or you can survive trauma, but you can't do them at the same time. And so when you're having a traumatic experience, which all of us did during COVID you, it is totally normal to feel like you have no feelings.
That's why I would be like, I don't have any feelings. And it's like, that's a trauma response. Right. And so I feel like I was engaging in a type of escapism. cute. I feel like through the songwriting, I was, co-writing a lot via zoom and I was using songwriting as like an escapism and some of the songs I can tell you which ones I added, but I have a song, um, I have a song called how love begins, which my, my friend describes.
She says she listens to it and she just feels like she's at like a rooftop party. And like the balloons just fell from the sky where dance, like,she's like, that's what I want your music video be.
Rae Leigh: I like that one.
Casey Mcquillen: That song is about, you know, falling in love in the city. And, and I I've written that story, you know, started it.And that's the song I
reengaged with during the pandemic to finish it up. And then a song called taste that I wrote with a friend of mine. You can tell him in the pandemic, because it starts about it's like about partying and traveling. Like the two things I missed so much, but you know, it was a song it's, it's total escapism.
I wasn't able to travel and I wasn't able to party at that time, but obviously pulled on source material from, from my life and my history and wrote that song. And, um, you know, I, I did the duet that I wrote. I wrote the song in and out, which ended up being a duet with the artist named John McLaughlin during that time.
Um, and it was all these projects that were a little bit different than me sitting in my room, being sad, writing songs, the guitar. Um, and so for me, the album is just a, I, I really tried to embrace letting myself. Write what I wanted to write. And if you'll notice in the album, it's also produced. However we wanted to produce it there.
This album has like four genres in it, all under the pop category, but pop country, pop, rock, pop, like pop, uh, uh, singer songwriter, uh, pop. Yeah. Like all kinds of stuff, pop, dance, all kinds of stuff. And I decided to have enough faith that.
One, I wanted to produce out each song as that song should be produced.
I didn't wanna taint bourbon, which is a country song by trying to make it fit into a dance album. It just doesn't work. And I, I wrote all the songs. I sang all the songs, my producer, Charles produced all the songs we had. We had one mixing engineer. I had enough faith that the album would sound cohesive because it came from me and my producer.
It, you know, because I didn't go to various producers and various co I was only, co-wrote a couple songs and it was with the same person, the song ha I think the album feels like me in that sense. And so for a debut album, it's kind of interesting because I feel like it's all my favorite stuff that I've done and I'm trying to have enough faith in the listener.
They're buying this album, engaging to this album, uh, because of the songwriting and the vocals and the production And that. Yeah. And yeah, hopefully you know that you found it cuz you like country and this was on a country playlist on Spotify, but the songs that are rock, pop sound similar there it's I wrote them.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
no, there is, you've done a really good job it's and they, they flow really nicely, even though they all have different vibes. And like you said, they definitely can fit into different sections. It's all got you. And, and there is it's similar enough that, um, I don't think you need to worry too much about, and I hate
Casey Mcquillen: Well, Adele
gave Adele. I know it's so boring. Adele gave us all a real help by saying you can't shuffle albums anymore. The best, you know how like she just did. Cause I, my album, we worked very hard on the song flow of that album to make it feel good because if you were to sh it's not a shuffle album, it, it doesn't work
as a
Rae Leigh: It doesn't work that way. Yeah. No, I think that's a really good point and I, I love what you've done and I think that, um, yeah, you've gotta have faith in the listener that they're listening to it because they've connected to something that you've done and they're gonna get to go on that emotional flow and that you, you, people don't fit in a box, you know, like you are you, I said to someone the other day, I said, I wish that they just had two genres countryand not country. So , we could just, I don't know how many times. And like, even that just people, there's so many different opinions on what is, what, um, that I, I give up, I give up I'm trying to figure it. All right. So we're, we're down to our last 10 minutes. I wanna ask you, what isthe best advice that you've ever beengiven in this industry as, as a singer songwriter?
Casey Mcquillen: Ooh, do you want my pretty answer or do you want my real answer?
Rae Leigh: I always want the truth,
Casey Mcquillen: so the truth, isn't pretty, this is the actual advice I give to the young women. Usually young women who approach me cuz they wanna do this. It's a story I tell because it was not how it was all presented to me. In the beginning
Rae Leigh: Mm-hmm
Casey Mcquillen: and was the hardest thing for me to kind of come to terms with. So when I was just grad just graduated Berkeley or was just finishing up with Berkeley, I can't remember, but I had a big meeting with a big
publicity agent person in New York. And I got in the train. I came to train with my mom and I got in the room and, and these people, you know, they were, they were trying to help me.
This is what's interesting. They're trying to help me. Right. And I came in the room, I'm 22 and we're in a room like of whiteboards. Right. And so they've got these categories and they we're gonna fill the categories out, but they've got the categories listed and the categories were songwriting, voice looks money.
I walked in and I said, what are these
And he said, these are your assets.
And I said, well, like, like looks and songwriting. It's not the same. That's not the same level of asset. And he looked right at me and he goes, If we're gonna continue at this meeting, the first thing you need to accept is that your looks are just as important.
If not more important than your music, he goes, cuz I'm just gonna work with what you got. He goes, you're really good. Uh, we're learning. You're really good in live interviews. So we're gonna pitch you to talk to people. If I sucked at talking to people, my publicist would not have reached out to you, right?
We would've gone a different way. If I was modeled beautiful. He said, if you were more beautiful, I'd be pitching you to try. Let's get the modeling going so we can try to get you in the room. He said, you are beautiful enough. So we're gonna pitch this, this and this, you have financing. So we're gonna do tour buy ons.
We have the money to do this, do this. And he goes, but this idea that you are som singer. So. And everything else is an extra is not true. You are all of these things. And if you are not comfortable selling all of it, you can't professionally sell some of it. It doesn't work that way. And it was, I was very offended and upset, and I felt like objectify and I didn't, I was, it was a very harsh, this guy had a pretty harsh style.
I think I would've explained this to somebody differently, but we've been talking right about how I wrote this song skinny and it's, it's an actual insecurity I have. And, and sometimes people have had this thing, but then they come up to me. But my mom actually just said something to me in the dressing room that made me feel insecure that night at that show.
And then they compliment my mom on raising such a woke daughter. And then I'm like, well, she just said this to me. And like you I'm the person and the song writer and the artist and his point was. wrote the song skinny.
And therefore that song only makes sense because I'm, I am a mid-size person, but it's also more palatable because I'm a pretty mid-size person.
Rae Leigh: it's
Casey Mcquillen: And then, and, and, and that that's, that's the icky ugly, difficult forever
upsetting aspect of this industry.
I, something I've said to my team before is you can't love how authentic I am and then hate the consequences of that authenticity. They come together when I sing about mental health issues and we love how great that is.
I have a mental health illness, and sometimes it makes it very difficult for me to do things. Those things go hand in hand. And so that is the best advice I ever got was if you can't come to accept that, you're not allowed to just write the song skinny in a vacuum. You have to write it and then, and then be the mid-size person.
I thought about this. What if I lose weight? Am I, can I still sing skinny?
What if I lose 50 pounds? How do we handle the song? The title album track of my song, because if, if it was separate, then it wouldn't be a problem, but people don't separate the art from the I. So I think if I, if I lost 50 pounds, it would become difficult to sing the song.
Skinny,
Rae Leigh: well, I mean, Adele had that sort of, a lot of backlash when she lost weight. Um, and I, I, I've always been sporty and I have a sister who's always been overweight and we love each other. And there's always been like a little bit of like that openness where we can talk about it. I've, I've always, and maybe it's body dysmorphia, but I have never.
Skinny. I've never felt attractive, but my whole life I've had desire. I've had attention from men, all this stuff. And it's, it's something that, um, you know, as an artist, you get projected on a lot. You're just pretty, or you're too pretty. I get that a lot and it's like, but I don't feel that I don't say that about myself and yet I'm not, I, I have to have confidence and I'm not allowed to be insecure about my body because, because so many people project their own insecurities onto me, it's like, I have just as many insecurities as everyone else.Um, so I think it is, it's an interesting thing that we judge each other so muchand I sometimes just wish we could just love and accept each other. No, ma no matter what the size, you know, we are human aren't we,
Casey Mcquillen: yeah. Well, it's, it's interesting. I was just, I just posted about this. I was on a different podcast and a woman was talking about, you know, I was trying to explain what I'm at the point now where I'm starting to buy clothing, like sometimes by clothing for a plus size section, sometimes buy clothing. It's why the internet has like dubbed mid-size.
It's like you're in the middle. Like, I, I technically fit into standard clothing, but it doesn't really fit me cuz it's not actually designed for me. But then plus size clothing, isn't really designed for me either. I'm not big enough. And there's a question about like, I wrote this song skinny. to your point.
I still benefit from so many aspects of society's understanding of what an attractive person is.
Rae Leigh: and I a hundred percent agree with you when you're being an artist and vulnerable. You've gotta
Casey Mcquillen: Well, it's also like, it's just, it's your, it's what, it's what you've got the foot in the door. Like, tho that was my list. Right. But somebody else's
list, you might be an amazing guitarist. And so they're like, okay, we're gonna do a guitar workshop. You know, you might like it's. And then some of it gets Dicker, you know, so and so, so you should hang out with that person more to try to get co-writes like
this there's, there's a, there's a reason that a lot of people in Hollywood know each other, you know, it's like people work with the people that they know.Um, I just think it's really misleading this idea that the best people, the literal most talented people are the people who are famous. I do not think that that's true. I
Rae Leigh: the nicest people, maybe
Casey Mcquillen: or, yeah, maybe that's one, that's one way to look at it, but I think you know, talent, what was important in that meeting and what I guess maybe I didn't, I didn't what he really stressed was. I care as much about you being talented as I care about you being
pretty. It's something I can use. It's like, I, I look at the fact that you can actually sing live that it's not auto tune.
It's an asset, but, but like, I that's, it's also an asset that I can put you in front of a camera. It's also an asset that you're good at talking to people it's but like an asset I don't have, I can't dance. Like maybe there would be a whole avenue we would do if I could, if I could dance, you know, if, um, if I was really comfortable on social media, like, you know, right now, you know, the main, the main thing that decides whether a model gets signed, isn't their looks, it's their social media following.
So like models you would think have the most black and white. Understanding, but yet Gigi Hadid, Bella Hadid and Kendall Jenner are the three biggest supermodels in the world. And all of them come from famous families. And so not every girl from a famous family is a model. Those three women happen to be incredibly beautiful, talented, hardworking women, but there are a lot of beautiful, talented, hardworking women.And so it was an, it was a piece of their whiteboard that their mother was a supermodel and that their father was a billionaire. And that that opened a lot of conversations. They started at mile 25 of a, of a marathon and you gotta be a runner, right? You gotta be a runner, they're a runner, but it's not it's even in what you would think is the most black and white industry, which is like, who's the pre.It's more complicated than that because, and so that's something, I think that doesn't get talked about enough. We're not honest enough about how much money connections
looks, who, you know, um, is equally as important as the quality of your songs. I would say songwriting is unique inthat. Listen, there's some horrible songs on the radio.Let's be
honest, but great music does have a way of sticking out. Um, I think there's, I think as somebody who was on one of those singing
Rae Leigh: I think
Casey Mcquillen: Amazing singers are a dime, a dozen. I'm not talking about the world's best singers. Ariana Grande is not dime a dozen, but people like me are dime a dozen. You could throw a rock in New York city.And if somebody as good as singing as me but songwriting is unique right? In that. If you, if people connect with your storytelling, I do think it'll pop out in a way that it's a, you have to, it it's a lot harder for a voice or a face to pop out.
Rae Leigh: Well, you have to be willing. I think in my opinion, you have to be willing in that authenticity to share vulnerably the darkest parts of who you are. And that like we talked about earlier is, is my idea of what an artist is. Because when you do that, you're saying, Hey judge me project all of your insecurities and all your crap onto me.I got this. And to, to be able to do that, you have to have a very high level of, um, emotional intelligence And ability to understand that, You're not what anyonesays about you. Like PEpeople will say you are the most beautiful person in the world and someone else will say, you're the ugliest person they've ever seen.Like, it's all subjective. Sometimes sometimes it is it's. Your publicist is trying to start like some sort of chatter, but,
Casey Mcquillen: not my car, by the way, this is not, my Caroma says this is somebody from 10 years ago. I won't wanna, I want blast. I was also, it's funny that it's this, this example of somebody being, you know, maybe a rather harsh. I went to four years at Berkeley. I was in, I was, I was a songwriting major and a music business major, no one had ever pointed out how important independent financing was.No one had ever pointed out how important it was to look at your. Marketing strategy from all angles and all availability to you. It was implied. It, it was behind the scenes, but I I'm, I'm a little naive when it comes to things like that. And so I had never thought about it directly. Um, I think Berkeley needs to be a lot meaner to
Rae Leigh: The business side,
Casey Mcquillen: about how like the business is ugly. So something, I, this is my, I have, I, I came up, I come up with all these metaphors to try to explain this industry, cuz almost everybody I know isn't a musician, right. Almost everybody I know is
like,
Casey's still doing this. Oh my God. Right.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: And it's really fascinating to me having been in this
industry for so long.I kind of forget how other people see it. But imagine your songs
are like a coffee bean. You grow in your backyard, right? You've got this great coffee bean. It's like really good. It's up there with the best coffee beans. You think some people might even think it's the best coffee bean, right? So you're like, oh my God, this is so great.And so then you do a little stand outside of your house and you say, I have the best coffee game.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: And then Starbucks, like keep selling more coffee than you. And everyone's like, that's crazy. You're being so great. Just keep standing in front of your house with your bean. I'm sure people will realize that it's better than Starbucks and you go, well, is Starbucks the best coffee bean?Or is Starbucks the best at marketing coffee? And trying to explain what a tour Buyon is to people. So this is like a part of the industry that is.this unsaid
Rae Leigh: I have no idea what a tour Byon is.
Casey Mcquillen: yes. So this is something I don't know if I'm like not supposed to tell people, I don't know.
Rae Leigh: you can tell me I can cut it out later if you like, it'll just be between us.
Casey Mcquillen: You know, again, this is my problem. Every everyone's like, I I go on, I go on podcast and then I forget. There's like people listening but it it's true. And it's, we, we, apply this morality to the business of art that we don't hold standard against other forms of business. And it, it, it hurts the artists because the artists then feel
guilty when they're like posting tos and using the algorithm like, oh, a seven, second TikTok.
Am I being like fake? Am I not a real artist? It's like, this is the game, baby. Do you wanna stand in front of your Starbucks? Stand that's outta your house. And so tour Byon this, I'll explain it with the Starbucks seed first. Cause this is the best way. This is my newest kind. Uh, my coffee be analogy has just been growing as the years.Go on. No pun
Rae Leigh: I love coffee, so that's fine. Okay.
Casey Mcquillen: me too, but yeah, it's coffee
time for you. It's not coffee time for me
here. Um,
Rae Leigh: I'm gonna get one after this.
Casey Mcquillen: And I'm realizing it's like winter where you are, which is
Rae Leigh: it's freeze. I'm in like my bedroom and it's like jacket and blankets and
Casey Mcquillen: it's a hundred degrees outside. Um, but
Rae Leigh: I wanna come to New York. We should have done it live.
Casey Mcquillen: yeah, we'll do a house swap. I love
Rae Leigh: Oh,
Casey Mcquillen: Um,but so you're growing this coffee bean, you've gotthis great coffee bean andyou know, it's like a really good coffee bean. It might be like as good of Starbucks, coffee bean, and some peoplemight prefer it. So you walk in a Starbucks and you say, I got a great idea.You should put me on your counter. And before anybody buys yours, they have to buy mine.So they have to sit mine and taste my coffee before they can get to your coffee that they know they like, and, and Starbucks goes,
um, Okay. Like, so we, we own this coffee bean. Now you wanna give us this coffee bean? Oh no, it's my coffee bean. But you don't understand. It's really, really good. Your, your, uh, customers will
love it.
Well, if my customers love your coffee, bean, why would I wanna introduce them to a coffee bean that they might like more than my coffee bean? So you're saying I built all these stores. I took out all these ads. I, I invested in this take case in Starbucks, billions of dollars building a global empire brand, every single thing. And you think just because you have a good coffee bean, that you should be on my counter and
everyone should be required to taste your coffee before you have my coffee bean. And then I don't own that coffee bean, you
just, and it goes no, but I thought you loved coffee. Don't you love coffee. Isn't this about the coffee
to now let's talk about tour.
You write a great song. You have a great album. You go to an artist who has spent millions of dollars the years and years, and years and years of their lives,
building a fan base through their music that will walk through those doors, buy that
ticket, buy that glass of wine and watch that show. And you go to that artist and you say, but I have a great album.
You should make everyone listen to my album before you're an album.
Well, do I, is it my song now? Well, no, it's my song.
Well, why would I do that? Don't you love the
music once you've contrasted it with any other business, it doesn't
make any sense that doing that would be free.
Rae Leigh: Mm.
Casey Mcquillen: But I went over to this James Morrison tour and I have a bunch of British cousins and they literally were like, so you are like, are you, you must your friend.How did you, how do you know, how long have you known James ? I answered the tour yet. And I was like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, you must know him. How, how else would an American book this? And I was like, they, I was the best out of the people that could afford the price. I wasn't the best. I was the best out of the massive pile of people that were more than willing to pay.So when people, if you wanna put your coffee on Starbucks's counter
Rae Leigh: yeah, you got, have
Casey Mcquillen: and use all the, you've gotta compensate Starbucks for all of their time and money and investment either.A a, a, a rented space. You can rent part of that counter for a certain amount of time,
Rae Leigh: yep.
Casey Mcquillen: or, well, I actually already have a lot of people that love my coffee.They'll come in and buy the coffee from you. If it's on your counter, those are the two ways it makes sense. So in Europe, I don't have a fanbase. Obviously the first tour I did in Europe was a, Buyon, not all tours are Buyon, but if the, it is an unknown artist opening for a known artist, it is always a Buyon. And what's so crazy to me is like, I feel like it's very important that I am honest about that is how this is happening, because I have friends who are just as talented than me who do not do this. And I beat out thousands of other girls who have that money to do that. But not everybody it's different, not like.There are people with TikTok followings that get a larger fan base more quickly, cuz they're very good looking. That happens too, right? The tick, the tick, the best dancers. Aren't the people with the most followerson TikTok. They're the people who dance well and
are very conventionally attractive.
Rae Leigh: yep.
Casey Mcquillen: We, it is insulting.I find this, my therapist will find this interesting, uh, talk to you about this, but I don't ever wanna I don't ever wanna imply that that part of the whiteboard,which was financing wasn't relevant in my team's decision to go after Buyon.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: In, in, in areas where I have no fan base. So in, in Boston, I headlined like I'm from Boston.
I headlined. Right? And so I was played this show and this young woman was, had
so much, um, gumption and she bitched out to me and was like, do you have an opener yet? And I was like, you know, I don't have an opener, like good on you. And I thought to myself, she was a Berkeley girl.
It was a one off show.I didn't bring up a buy on.
I don't, I didn't, this was a very unique time experience in the industry where I saw so much of myself and her that I decided I'm not gonna like make this young student Venmo me the value of this on the open market. Like I can absorb, I want this girl to come. My family and friends will love it. It'll be great.Right. And so she did a great job, had the world's most attentive audience, because it was people who are family and friends with the singer songwriter. So there wasn't a keep
coming from during the, oh, every everyone was there on time. The, I sent them like the tickets to people being like, be on time for this little, this girl, like, no, one's gonna be late for her.
Cause I'm the, I'm the perpetual opener. Right. So when I headline everyone treats the opener very well. And she messaged me a little while later on Instagram being like, Hey, so like I asked the venue about payment and they said to reach out to you as in for her to get paid.
Rae Leigh: about yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: And it's funny because some people that work for me were like, oh my God, what did you tell her?
Like, as in like, did you tell her to go take a.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: And what I said was again, probably cuz I saw much so much of myself in her. I was like,
no, I look at that as Berkeley's failing, how is this girl? Who's a senior at
Berkeley reaching out. And you know, I know it's some out of touch professor who was like, you just need to go female power and you just need to go be like, I deserve to get paid.
And it's like, no, no, no, no. You have no concept of how this industry works. And so I sent her a lot. I took a lot of time and I sent her a long message that was like, Hey, I didn't know this until I like got to New York and got the sense slapped into me of how this works. It, this is Berkeley's fault that you don't know this, but actually normally pay for
buy-on. Um, this is how much I've paid.
To do X shows that you saw me doing.
Um, I really liked you and this was a one off show. And so I didn't bring, I didn't bring it up, but I assume because you didn't bring up getting paid, you understood you would
that the, I was that I was, I was giving you exposure for
Rae Leigh: free.
Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: and it's, it's so ugly, like what an ugly
thing, but the truth is, is like, it was a very inexpensive way for
that young woman to learn that that's how the
industry works.
Rae Leigh: What a, good life lesson.
Casey Mcquillen: Yeah.
And it like is awkward. You know what I mean? I, I,
it should have come from a professor or a friend or a
manager
shouldn't have, you know,
but
Rae Leigh: business 1 0 1,
Casey Mcquillen: I know, but I have a degree in music business and no one told me.
so I think that's the hardest part about this
industry is like, we write our little
song eggs,
and then
it's a business.
We grow our coffee beans in the backyard we make, we brew our
coffee and our coffee
pot, and we say, okay,
I've gotta go sell this
coffee. And that's the part that sometimes makes me feel like I'm not a
real artist, is that it's so icky to put on your hat and say, I've gotta go sell this coffee. But the truth is up until the moment you put on the hat to go sell the coffee, you are a
hobbyist, it's a job
when you do the thing you don't like, which
is sell
it.
Rae Leigh: And you're selling yourself and that's, it is icky. It's
Casey Mcquillen: and that's why a lot of people use
stage names and wear crazy outfits. And Dolly Parton
has the big boobs in the hair. Like they do a character because it's so upsetting
to have it be you. And I tried, I tried dropping my last name for a while and just going by Casey. Um, and.
At the end of the
day, as much as I tried to distance
myself from it, I was writing songs about my exact life.
Like I just wrote a song and I texted to my producer and I was like, we're gonna, we can't put this out for like two years. Everyone's gonna know what I'm talking about. Like I wrote something happens and I wrote a song about it. And I, I can't put this.
It's like, as much as I could change my name, all I wanted,
but I'm writing so intensely about what I'm experiencing, that it felt really, I just, I went back to case McMillan.
It
felt I was trying to run from that thing. That feeling
that I was selling myself, I was trying to pretend that
that's not what I was doing, but it is
Rae Leigh: I think the authenticity side of things is just so like, we feel it and we
see it in artists. I, I was trying to work out what it was about
the artists that I really like, that they have in common. Cause I like so many different types of music and I got down to it's like, I feel like I like these people.
Not because they have great songs or whatever it is, but I feel like they're being
really authentic to who they are and how they feel. And they're sharing that with
truth. And
Casey Mcquillen: know, who's like, a really funny example of that that
you wouldn't
expect. Doja
cat,
she's blown up. Do you know who that Is is she
most, is she kind of in Australia
Rae Leigh: Well, I haven't heard of her, but then I don't listen to
Casey Mcquillen: She's like an R and B dance, pop artist. All of her stuff
is
entertainment, music. Right. But
like, it it's so
seamless. She, it doesn't, it strikes me as very
authentic that
that's what she's making and writing and, and, and producing and working on it's her, whole thing matches.
The energy or similarly Bruno Mars, Bruno Mars is an entertainer artist. As in, he's not trying to
blur his heart out with the songs that he's writing, he's trying to entertain
you, but it feel, I can feel that he likes the music
Rae Leigh: He's having fun. Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: it through the songs. And so I really like it. And so songs don't have to be dark in order to be
authentic. I think they can be authentic if you
can just feel that
that's what that
person wanted
to
make. And so they made it,
you
know,
Rae Leigh: And that's, that's, what's fun is like you think, yeah. You feel like that person really wanted to make that song and they're having so much fun doing it And well done because that is hard. that's, the hard thing to do. It's like, I think we're all creative. We all want to do things, but actually doing. So many
people go, oh no, no one will like it. Or what's the point. Or like we have to fight that mental battle. And like,
I love talking to other songwriters who are, who are artists who are out there actually doing it. And like you said, pushing their, their music. You have, you
know, you've overcome that barrier that everyone has of.
Am I good enough? Am I worth sharing? This? Is
this a gift that needs to be given
to the world? You know,
Sometimes
Casey Mcquillen: I'm at the place where I just tell myself, I'm act, I'm not
doing anyone active harm. That's like, I just tell myself, I tell myself all the time,
I'm like, you're not
important, calm down. Like
I am, I, you know, oh my
God,
like, am I doing enough? Blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you know
what if sh yeah, I'm not, I'm not
hurting
anyone I think.
And I think I'm helping some
people and people say that it's a, some people say help them a lot, even if I'm helping them, like marginally. That's good
and
feeling guilty about the fact that I get to be a singer songwriter doesn't
help
anybody. And
it just, I'm just not that I'm just not that important. It's okay. Um, someone is gonna write songs and
pitch them. it's me. I'm doing it. That's a comp complicated, you know, it's complicated. This idea that, you know, I saw a TikTok recently that was like so many children, like people that come from money, children of like these billionaires, whatever. Right. So many of them make, make art as their living, as what they do
with
their day, every day. And, and you can look at it like, Ugh, all these rich kids don't wanna have a real job, or you could look at it like the natural human state is spending your life, making art and trying to connect with people and express yourself. And it can be. And that the goal is to have everyone having more access to that, as opposed to hating ourselves that wear the people that get to do it.
Rae Leigh: absolutely. I think we should be inspiring each other to be more creative. Like, I I love it when someone starts up a podcast and they wanna do it and they ask me questions cause it's like, great, because it's a form of expression and it's artistic and it's creative. Um, and same
Casey Mcquillen: and it's brave.
Rae Leigh: songwriting or at, well, no, I don't care. I
Casey Mcquillen: it's brave. I think it's very brave. I think this idea that you go out and you say. I think it would be a good podcast
Rae Leigh: idea.
Casey Mcquillen: is I think artists in the sense don't give themselves enough credit that that's actually the barrier for people. So I'm sure you've, you've had this where
people say quippy things to you. Me and my family call it Casey bango at a party where it's like all the thing, all the stereotypical things people say to me. And it's like, if I'm hitting my limit, I'll be like, bingo. And I'll be like, I can't fucking take this anymore. And casey bingo is is generally people people's shock into deep discomfort that I would choose. Such an unstable future one,
that's the one they talk about. They are, they're able to, um, vocalize that. They're really uncomfortable with the fact that my future is uncertain. They could never do that. How could anybody do that? That kind of thing. But I think the P the thing that they, it's actually much more intense and they're, they're less aware of
it is they are so fucking panicked that I'm out here saying, I think I could do it. I think I am good enough. I don't think I'm the best one, but I think I'm one of the best ones. Like, I think if there's a million best ones, I'm one of them and that's enough and I'm gonna go for it. And people are so uncomfortable with standing up in front of the world and saying, I think I might be one of the best ones.
Can I try to be one of the best ones? that's another I think I'm good enough. and that's another piece of advice that I give young female singer songwriters. I say, when you sing your songs, is it generally because people have begged you to sing it or because you've begged to sing. So if it takes a family party where your mom and your grandma and your uncle were like, no, no, it's so good. No, you have to listen. Oh my God, no, wait. Don't wanna sing it. No, you have to, you have to go, come on, sing for us, sing for us, sing for us. And then you get out and then everyone quiets down and everyone sits around and then you sing your song and then everybody claps. And you find that that's the only times that you perform. This is not the life for you. Run, Run, no one will ask to hear you ever again, your mother wants to hear your songs and no one else cares at all until they hear it then they'll care. Maybe, but if you are not, if you are not willing to yell and stop traffic and say my song now let's listen to my song now. And I don't mean with your family and friends, cuz I have a difficult, I, my I'm kindly enough. I never let people play my songs at like my friends play my songs at parties. I don't like listening to it. Social settings.
Rae Leigh: weird.
Casey Mcquillen: It makes me really uncomfortable because if somebody like even coughs, I'm like, they're not listening. They hate it. Like I just get in my head. But like I was on this, this James tour and I was the first of three, which I don't know if any many of your listeners would know like what that means, but it means that I went on and then somebody more famous than me went on and then James went on. So I was the little runt that came on at the top of the show. Right.
Rae Leigh: As people are still arriving.
Casey Mcquillen: A lot of people are still arriving. Luckily it was like a seated Royal theaters. It was this, it was a really stunning experience because it was a, it was a, they were theaters. Like you would go see the opera. And so they were, um, it was stunning. I'll send you some picks. It was unbelievable. um, but you know, it wasn't, um, a drunken bar where I had to get up,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: but
I went out there and they're all British, which, and Americans are allowed British people are. They're so funny. They're so they are a lot of them are reserved some parts of the country in the north. They're not, but in the Southern south UK, they're, they're, they're reserved. And I, I cut my teeth doing this anti-bullying program in school. So I take some of the songs I wrote when I was a kid that happened to deal with bullying and growing up, I wrote about everything and I have some songs from when I was a child that deal with it. And I cut my teeth playing for. Hundreds of schools over 40,000 kids. I did it constantly. and the thing about going to a high school is they hate you and they don't want to admit that they like you because that's not cool liking things. Isn't cool. And I literally learned to perform playing for 700 high schoolers who have never heard of me. I can, that is about the most difficult performance environment you could be in. And I learn where you have of succeeding,
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: where there's a possibility of. And I learned that other presence is required. You have to be so comically ready to go. But in a way, I always acknowledge as an opener that it's funny that I'm the opener. Like I'm always acknowledging that it's. That they were not expecting me that we're here.
We're doing it. I got you guys for the next half hour. So let's get this ball rolling because we are doing it now. I treat it like a high school. Like I corral assemblies of like, what I say to kids is, listen, you don't know who I am, but you're not in math class. So you're welcome. And I, in my, when I , when I play for a difficult school, one of my lines that came to me now I use, but it came to me very naturally in a moment of, of need was I played for this high school and it was the first high school I'd ever played.
I played for middle school, which is like kids 10 through 13, much easier high school in America is like 14 through 18, much harder. And I played for high school where it was predominantly, um, children of color. I was one of the only white people like in the auditorium, which is something I always take into account that like I'm somebody coming in. I don't appear to have shared experiences like. Extra need to earn their respect. Right. And so this, the principal introduced me to this like group of like 700, 800 kids and they talked right over her. They didn't even remotely pause to listen to her. And I was like, okay, okay. Like we're in it. And my mom's backstage, like being like, oh my God. I'm like, and I get really calm though, before performances. And I was like, I've got
Rae Leigh: Backstage
Casey Mcquillen: And I went out and I said, the thing, math class, whatever. And I said, but you don't know me and you don't respect me. And I understand that. Why would you? I said, so I'm gonna make a deal with you. I'm gonna sing this cover song that I sang in America idol.
And I said, and if I'm not the best singer you've ever heard, you don't have to pay attention for the rest of the assembly said, but if I, and the best hanger you've ever heard, you have to pay attention. And the kids kind of sat back and were like, okay. And I did the best version of this song that I ever did in my life. But the, and it ended up being genuinely. One of the top five shows of my life. The kids were amazing. They gave me standing ovations in between each song and they would sit down to like, listen to what I was having to saying. And the truth is right. I wasn't the best singer they'd ever heard. I was really good.
I showed up for myself, but it was, I, I, I was telling them, I expect to have to earn your attention. I did not walk onto this stage thinking I deserve your attention. And that is how I have treated performance. Since then I walked onto the James stage. And told the crowd through my actions and my choices and my energy. I understand I have to earn your attention. I do not expect you to give it to me. I don't want it out of politeness. Actually, I want it out of you being impressed. I do not want polite attention. I want wrapped attention and what I started doing at the James store, cuz again, it's just natural cuz the energy in the room, the show is what's so great is amazing. And I would go to take a selfie with the, with everybody after have them put the stage like cuz these beautiful rooms. And I would say to the audience, okay guys, on the count of three, pretend you came to see me and it would be like turn around and people that is so funny because it was an acknowledgement of like you like this, we just had a great time, but you're not here to see me. The fact that I'm you, the fact that I'm asking to take a photo with you is kind of funny cuz you didn't come here to see me. And I found that that, but that's vulnerable. That's vulnerable. Right? It's
Rae Leigh: It's honest.
Casey Mcquillen: To say out loud. And I found that, you know, and every once in a while, on a Saturday night, people were kind of drunk and chatted a little bit during the show. But overarchingly, I've been incredibly lucky with my, my opening slots that they've been so, receptive, but I also think I have a lot of experience in playing to crowds that don't know me. And, um, I like, that's why I, like, I really wanna get into the festival scene cuz I think I'd be, be pretty good at it because I think I've heard that like some artists have trouble with that because it's their first time they're playing to crowds that didn't come to see them and it can be offputting,
Rae Leigh: Mm, I think it's, I think it's a great skill and it's, it is, I know we've talked about humbling, but having such a great positive attitude and not expecting, or, or being, I guess, narcissistic, which some artists can be in the sense of how do you not know who I am? Kind of attitude of just like, Hey, this is what I wanna do. I'm gonna share what I love and me
Casey Mcquillen: I'm the
Rae Leigh: you know?
Casey Mcquillen: when people know who I am, I'm just shocked.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Casey Mcquillen: I'm shocked. I'm like, wait, how do you know me? What? Oh, somebody came and would, listen to me on a podcast, came to one of the James shows and came up to the mech table. And obviously, cause in the UK, nobody know, like I don't have any fan base in the UK, but I was doing press in the UK while I was over there and she had heard it and I've like, I don't think I've ever been so excited in my life. I was like, you need to, you need to go up to the stage after the, at the end of james the show and tell him that you came to see me
Rae Leigh: yeah. Yes.
Casey Mcquillen: knows I sold one ticket
Rae Leigh: Adds value to the buy-in
Casey Mcquillen: yeah. can you send can you send me 49 99 back please? Thank you.
Rae Leigh: yeah, refunds. Um, I I actually, I have this one question that I like to ask people in the podcast and it's the last official question that I was always ask. If you could collaborate with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would, it be and why?
Casey Mcquillen: It would be Taylor swift 100%. I would, I would literally genuinely give up a kidney to work with taylor swift. I think I mean that
Rae Leigh: Okay. You don't
Casey Mcquillen: um, I exactly, you only need one. I think she is the pop genre. I think she's, I think she's the most prolific important songwriter of her entire generation. I have. , I am, you will never
convince me that it isn't because she's a woman that people don't realize that she is the Bob Dylan. Of the Beatles of our time. She is pop music is whatever she does for the next two years, whatever she does now, that's what it is. Her lyrics, she has the ability to engage incredibly simply and knock you over or incredibly poetically that you have to listen to it and, and, and actively engage with lyrics for hours before you feel like you fully understand what she's saying. She does both. She does it consciously. She switches between doing those things consciously her recent albums, where she inhabited the bodies of other people and made songs about those people's experiences that aren't her. But I don't say she didn't write about other people. She became other people and wrote their songs. She.
Unbelievable. I will die on this hill. my, my biggest, my biggest dating question I ask guys is guys ask me all the time on dates. Who's your favorite, uh, uh, musician, cuz they're always think they have a better answer and I never date musicians. They never know what they're talking about. Um, and I judge them based on their reaction to me saying Taylor swift.
Because if they're yes. Obviously if they say, oh my God. Yeah, she's great. I love her. Great. If they say, oh, really? I've never listened to her. Why? Why do you like her so much? Totally fine. Like if you're like, I've never listened, but you have a degree in songwriting in her professional songwriter. So I'm curious about your opinion.
Totally great. But if a guy goes, oh, oh really Taylor, swift
Rae Leigh: Bye bye.
Casey Mcquillen: like, I just listened to, I just listened to TPA or I never dumbed it. I'm like it, it is, it is so amazing to me. I genuinely feel lucky that I was born right around her age that I'm going to get to experience all of the art
she's ever put out. This could be like a tailored swift fan fan podcast, but anybody
who hasn't listened to her most, most recent albums. I would strongly recommend, um, going and giving it another listen because some of her were radio stuff, which I actually think is all very well done. If that's not for you, if super pop, curated music, isn't what you enjoy, which is totally for, I don't really listen to her most pop songs. Almost that means you will like her album tracks. Um, she's I think she's unbelievable. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Interesting. No, I've never heard anyone give, put
that spin on it. And like I've definitely watched the documentary stuff and, yeah, she's, she's incredible in all of those whiteboard areas that you talked about. Like just, you can, you can tell that it's
Casey Mcquillen: She did Calvin climb modeling when she was like 15 and getting into the industry, she did Calvin climb modeling. that was because the most talented songwriter of our generation, they put on the whiteboard and they said, well, she's really pretty and tall and thin, we should get her into modeling. Like there is a standard way that we do, we market individuals to become brands themselves, you
Rae Leigh: know, and we're all a brand and we should think about that when we make decisions. And sometimes we don't and that's okay. We
Casey Mcquillen: I know it's exhausting.
Rae Leigh: one minute left, so I'm gonna give it over to you. Is there anything else you would like to share? I'm gonna put your links and everything like that in the description of the podcast and the blog on the website?
Casey Mcquillen: So something I tell people, cuz again, I'm learning, there's some things people don't really realize is yes, it would be amazing if you follow me on Instagram and facebook or whatever those social sites are that you use. But the best thing you can do to help a new musician outside of buying concert. To see them is give them a follow, a follow on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music, whatever it is that you use, it really helps the algorithms realize people want to hear anything I put out and that's the best thing That's the number one thing I ask people. Um, and one sense, I started being vulnerable in asking for that on stage. My follows went from like 50 a night to like 400 a night at these James shows. So that would be my ask. Please follow me and my websites. Listen to casey.com. Come hang out with me.
Rae Leigh: Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate the huge amount of time you've spent. And you are an amazing talker as well as singer and you are beautiful. So you. are triple threat um, but I wanna support you and I'll definitely be following and stay in touch.
Casey Mcquillen: Thanks hun. Talk to you soon. Bye.
