#128 Dan Biddle
Dan Biddle the current chairman of the Country Music Association Australian, Producer of the Australian Golden Guitar awards and artist manger of The McClymonts and McAlister Kemp almost quit on the music industry when he through it had died after his employer at the time signed and released Big Brother star Sarah Maries's "The Butt Dance" song back in the 2000's...
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a Songwriter Trysts with Dan Biddle. Thanks for joining me.
Dan Biddle: Thanks for having me.
Rae Leigh: We met at the Australian somewhere at his conference in Sydney a month ago now. So I'm going to get you in your own words. Tell everyone who are you, where do you come from and what are you doing in the music industry now?
Dan Biddle: I want to say thank you for having me on, because I looked through the list. That you've had on the show and you've had a lot of talented people. So thank you for inviting me along. I work in the business side of things and I fell in love with music when I was about 12.
It. was actually the late eighties and hair metal, so poison and Def Leppard and things like that. And I saw these guys rock me out on or in these music videos. And I was like, yeah, I wanna, I want to do that. I want to be involved in that. It looks like so much fun. And so yeah, I grew up in Northern new south Wales in a fairly small town.
Got into music, started playing guitar. About a year off to that started a band with some friends from school and we started, yeah, we were playing led Zeppelin and deep purple and all this kind of stuff. And we were doing geeks around Northern new south Wales, Lismore , things like that. I mean, Yeah.
From the age of kind of 15 to 18, we were doing a gig maybe once a week around that area. Yeah. And so I gravitated to being the one that organized things. So I would deal with the booking agent which we had a booking agent, which was really cool for day. And we you know, and, but we'd also put on our own concerts in the community call and I'd organize posters and the media and things like that.
And so probably by about kind of 16, 17, I was realizing that you know, I was better at organizing stuff than playing the guitar. And I was like, I want to be a managing director of a record company one day. And specifically I wanted to be the managing director of Warner music because Warner was the home of.
Well, you know, at that time, the great labels of Atlantic Electra and Warner brothers music, which was like their inhaler and Fleetwood Mac, the doors like Zeplin and, you know, so on and so forth. And I was like, I want to work there. So fast forward a little bit, went to university at Southern cross university at Lismore and did the music business and audio course moved to Sydney.
I Started doing work experience at Warner and I was just working in the sales office. So they would take orders for cassettes and CDs from the record stores. And my job was to,
yeah, I was just sending out the mail-out each week with all the new release information and literally licking envelopes at that time.
Cause
Rae Leigh: started in the mail room.
Dan Biddle: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: Love it.
Dan Biddle: they didn't have the pull strip mailer things at that time. You actually still like it. That was not in 97, which doesn't seem like that long
ago. But I would have thought that the Colstrip had been invented by that time, but No, I was actually leaking envelopes, so yeah.
Rae Leigh: that's so cliche, but also awesome.
Dan Biddle: And then I, an entry level job came up at Warner and I of course applied for it. And the boss, he said, they called me Danny. And he said, Danny, you're a good kid, but I don't want someone with a university degree. I want somebody who's worked at a record store. And that is absolutely the opposite of what you would hear today at a major record company
these days, if you do not have a university degree in some form of marketing communications or a whole bunch of things, you're not going to get a job at a record company.
And the practical experience that seems, you know, not to talk down about major record labels. Cause there's a lot of great people that major record labels, but the on the ground heart of the experience is not as essential. It was back then. So anyway, when you go to a job at a record store and through that, of course he gets to experience lots of music because he had, you know, and then but the other great thing was that I got to meet lots of sales reps and people from the record companies.
And then a job came up with BMG and that was in 98. And that was pre when BMG merged with SIDA. So BMT was a standalone company, not the same as BMG today. That's a whole different company, but yeah, so I got a job with them and I was in Sydney and the telephone sales that, you know, again, taking orders from the record stores.
And then I got transferred to Melbourne and I got a T a car and a territory, and I'd go out on the road and sell CDs and cassettes to the record stores. And then they moved it back to Sydney and then I quit. Because I was becoming a little disenfranchised with what was happening with music in the early two thousands.
Rae Leigh: what specifically?
Dan Biddle: It
was, I guess, at the end of the the early two thousands, I guess you were coming at the end of the new metal movement. And the, I just could, I, that was where rock music was at that time, limp, Bizkit and Nico back and things like that. And like now I'm like, give me something rock, you know, because there's a lot of rock getting played on radio anymore, but it all seems pretty timed now, but there was a lot of that.
But the other thing was when I was working at P and G the first season of big brother, there was a girl named Sarah Marie, who was
Rae Leigh: I remember her. She had the but dance.
Dan Biddle: She had the buckets and you know, a whole bunch of fun, but when I was like, you know, all young and serious and not understanding the entertainment of it all, I kind of went, what, why are we, why am I working for we relieved, you know, BMG signed her and released the bum dance.So as a single yes. And there were other exist. What's
Rae Leigh: I don't remember that ever happening.
Dan Biddle: Oh yeah. No, it
Rae Leigh: it?
Dan Biddle: I should look it up if it's on
Spotify or not.
Rae Leigh: Hilarious. Did it actually take off? So I remember I was in high school at this stage, so I do remember the dance because we were all doing it at high school. We were all doing the
Sarah Marie, but dance, but I don't remember a song coming out from it.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, well, it was,
It did come out and I'm sure it went gold because pretty much, you know, everything back in those days has going gold or platinum or whatever. But you know, I'm sure it's all a bit, there were a bunch of other things at that time as well. And I just kind of went, this is not really what I got into the music industry for like,
You know, I had stuff that I liked, so it was kinda like, I dunno at that point I was like 24 and I was like, no, I need to work this out.
So I went on a trip with my brother. We went we're going to travel around Australia. We went apple, picking it back low, and that lasted about. I ate, wakes and you know, I couldn't hack it, but what did, what was great that came from that was, you know, I bought a Q magazine, the music magazine and in, but she just happened to be in the news agent there.
And it came with a CD of key music's best of 2001. And it had Ryan Adams I think it was firecracker or it was the song from the album gold and I just like listened to that on repeat. And I was like, yeah, this is what I'm into. And so. That led to a big phase of like loving kind of old country, like Wilco and my morning jacket and Richmond, Fontaine and stone, so high and all the really kind of deep old country stuff that was coming out around that time.
And then that kind of led to it.
going back and exploring the Neil young and Bob Dylan and my dad's
music, which was wailing. We need Waylon Jennings,
Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, but sorry, Glen Campbell, Kenny Rogers. And I just went
on this
Rae Leigh: he loved that?
Dan Biddle: What's that?
Rae Leigh: I bet your dad loved that
you were getting into his music.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, it was really cool. And now, like, you know, my top five albums of all time is.
Waylon and Willy's not in 78 album, which had mothers,
don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys on it. So that was like one of his favorites, but I didn't realize the effect of that, him playing that in the background, it had on me in that late seventies, early eighties, while I was listening to hear metal that. was in the background and would become, I don't know, this tells more of a music and how it makes you feel about different points in time in your life.
I love that,
Rae Leigh: Beautiful.
Dan Biddle: picture or that it creates for you And you know, yeah, there's so much music that I love, but so while that was While that was happening. I, yeah, I moved up to Brisbane. I got a job at universal music and again, I was going out to record stores and selling CDs, cassettes it, dried up by that time.
So it was all CDs. And I went to the gimpy muster in 2003, and then I went to Tamworth in 2004 and I was like, wow. You know, like there's all this organic music going on. And I, you know, it's such a community in the country music world. And I, you know, I just fell in love with that. And then the McClymonds released their debut in P in 2006 and I worked closely with them while I was at universal.
And then in 2010, I moved over to Sony music. I was back in Sydney by this time and I was a marketing manager. And my areas that I looked after were country music.
compilations. So all the so fresh albums and things like that. Yeah.
From kind of 2011 to 2014, I would work to put those together and also
catalog projects. So I did a lot of stuff like Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, I did a great midnight oil,
greatest hits album called essential loyals who
to gurus. Yeah. So lots of really cool projects that were just right up my alley Rodriguez sexually. That was one of the most fun projects. So the searching for sugar man documentary, which have you seen that.
Rae Leigh: What's it called the searching.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, so Rodriguez the artist is called Rodriguez
and the documentary is called searching for sugar man. and he was a singer songwriter writer in the early seventies, released two albums and then disappeared. And then this documentary came out and he was you know, it was a massive thing, but yeah, so, and then it sort of came up that the McClymonds were
wanting to change their management in,
Kind of 2013.
And I reached out to them and did my pitch. To be their manager and it took a little while and they met with lots of people, but ultimately they, they decided to give me a shot. And I started with them in January, 2014. And then I also manage that to me honestly, at that time. And then since then I've also managed frame Connors for about three years fanning lumps, and for about two and a half years. I currently manage McAlester camp who we just announced to come back to a, for them after a seven year break. And I and other projects that I'm working on as, as well. And then in addition to that, to give you the full sort of career rundown, I guess, I'm the, be the chairman of the same AA, the country music association of Australia for the last well, three and a half years.
And I'm involved in associate producer of the golden guitar woods for about seven years and things like that. So very much entrenched
in country music with a big interest in just music that makes people feel good overall.
Rae Leigh: Wow. So that's it. That's all you've done. I mean, that's a huge resume seriously. Like, I mean, you're obviously super ambitious, but also driven, like to have done what you've done. And I actually can, I've done repping in sales. I like to do tele sales, take some balls. I'll tell you I've done that job, but like just everything that you've done and how it sort of just evolved.
Was that intentional or was it just sort of opportunities and just following you got
and your love of music and like, what would you say.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. I Like
to think that I've been smart, but it's sort of, I dunno, this things have fallen
into place in my brother always
gives me a hard time. It's was like, everything just always works out for you and you don't even try. And
Rae Leigh: I didn't believe in that,
Dan Biddle: well, I mean,
Rae Leigh: you work hard
Dan Biddle: yeah, I mean, the thing is that I dunno, like the, if I hadn't have left BNG at that time, I don't know.
Maybe I would've had a revolution in my mind of what needs it meant to me, but that event really led to me understanding the importance of it in my life. And so it kind of happened by accident, but
it kind of also, it was like, this is not feeling right. I need to
and then, you know, leaving Sony in 2014 to manage the McClymonds, like, I mean,
in the management world,
You have the highest highs and the lowest lows of view.
Oh, well,
for me it's been the highest highs and lowest lows of my career. Like all life in general, actually. Like it is such an emotional,
Challenging job and everything, but
I. Have you know, have an M continuing, I believe to make something that I'm proud of. And so, you know, the decision to go for it was, you know, I mean, it's calculated in. a way, but when I left Sony, I had Like six weeks of pay in my, you know, bank account.
And, you know, just busted my way through the first six months where we weren't working, because, you know, we were working on an album that was coming out in July for it, to have, that was kicking off in July. So it's like, you know, I, when I was leaving Sony to manage them and climb on, so I should have sat down and gone, well, you know what, there's not going to be any income six months.
This is a smart move, but it was like, nah, I've
got to do this. This is if I don't do this now, I probably won't get an opportunity to get into this space. Again,
Rae Leigh: Okay. And it can be hard to sort of quit your day job to follow something that you believe in. Like it, you got to jump
sometimes. Not all the time, but yeah.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. Yeah, calculated risks are important. And it depends, you know what I mean? I of course, it's your situation changes with the responsibilities that, you have to, you know, not only yourself, but other people and things like that. And I was fortunate that at that point in time, I had no one else relying on me and it was like, yeah, I can go for this.
So, yeah. It's it's not always easy, you know, people go, you're not
happy change it. That's not always so simple, you know? It's.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah.
And I do, I believe that, like I used to tell people I'm really lucky. I remember one time I was in counseling because that's what you do, you get therapy. And I was telling my therapist that I'm, you know, I'm really blessed things always just work out for me. And he's like, no, you don't, you work really hard.
And I was like, do you know what I do? And I can see that in you as well. Like you obviously work really hard. And like you said, you have the highs and the lows, but you just got to keep going and things will work out in the end if you just don't quit. So I like that about your story. I do want to ask you about the lows and the highs though, and how you have managed that and how you've learned.
Like tell us some of the lessons you've learned from this journey of The risk.
Dan Biddle: yeah. So one of the, when I started at, BMT, one of the, you know guys that was a couple of old is older than me, kind of took me aside and he went, this business is all about just staying on your feet. Like if you hang in there, it will. I mean, w th the specific words that he said where you've got to be the last fan standing
now, obviously this is not just got to keep going, is the interpretation of that.
The other thing is that I realized is that a career is a marathon, not a sprint. And you know, like, let's say you start waking at 20 and you get to retire at 65 That's 45 years. And so for me, I'm like halfway through my career and I've done some good stuff so far, but I'm so excited about what the next 20 to 25 years.
Has in-store. So that has been a great motivator. Talking to people is so important. Like when it, and I did have a big period of time, you know, months, like a good kind of six months where I would not talk about how desperate or depressed or things like that, that I was feeling. And you know, and it got, you know, pretty bad.
And now it's like, I know that if I know when there's a trigger of feeling that, and it's like, ah, I just need to talk about that and that's done. And I can move on to something else. So that's been really important for me to keep that in mind and I, yeah, just encourage anyone. Who's, you know, when you have those feelings just
to, there is a way someone that you can talk to to, get that out, that's been important to me.
Rae Leigh: That's really good to hear, and it is good to hear that everyone in the industry it is it's not a nine to five week to week salary type business. And there are highs and lows, and that can be really hard to emotionally navigate to the point that it can be quite, you know, the grass could be greener on the other side, sometimes of how about I just go get a job and give up on this idea of what we love.
And that's where, you know, I think where people say, you've got to love what you do in this industry to be able to do it because you're not doing it for the security. And I think it is healthy that we share that it's not always easy. And it is hard sometimes and that's okay. Everyone goes through those moments and
yeah.Talk to someone. That's the best thing you can do.
Dan Biddle: Absolutely. And you know, we've seen the other thing to keep in mind is that as we've seen over this last decade in particular, that it is possible to build a really good kind of cottage. Business of making music without having to rely on other people to do that for, you know, I mean, there was a point in time where to make it, you had to get signed to a major record label and then your song had to get on the radio or, you know, MTV is, was in America and if not, then you probably didn't
make it. And that was the end of that dream. But now there's lots of people, making great businesses. And let's see, Yeah. a couple of other things I guess, coming into that is you know, understanding what your expectations are and setting setting proper goals that, you know like I say to people your first goal, shouldn't be, I
want to have a number one single on chart or whatever it should be. I want to make
the average income. Of, you know, as, you know, doing music 100%, it's my career. like I think the average wage in Australia is Like 85,000 or something like that. I'm not sure, but it's like, if you're making that per year from just doing music related projects, then you're winning, you know, like that is really
Rae Leigh: really well.
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Dan Biddle: and that should be the first milestone or first benchmark to aim towards. And then from there it's like, okay, well we want to go to America. Okay. Well, you know, whatever it might be, but if you're not making that basic kind of wage from it that it can be very hard or whatever that number is that works for you.
Yeah. So that's one thing. And the other thing is the competition and.
A jealousy thing that can naturally come up in, in this business because it's a very emotional emotion driven business and it's very personal and you create things and you put it out and, you know, and then you see other people are doing this or other people. are doing that.
And it just Is such a trap. And I fall into it every day. To be honest, I'm always looking at what everybody's doing and you going, oh, I wish I had that idea. Or, you know, we all have lots of good things that we're offering and sharing, and it's important to remember and be proud of those things rather than what we don't have.
That's another sort of big thing. I try to stay in touch with emotions.
Rae Leigh: comparison artists is a serious mental thing that everyone experiences and watching other people. Is fantastic and being inspired and learning from other people, what other people are doing is great. But Yeah.
for me I've definitely had to learn to use it, to be happy for other people in what they're doing, but also use it as a driving factor for me.
But I also, like, I don't know about you, but I have heard when people say, oh, it's so competitive or it's too palliative in the music industry in my head. I like, I'm just like, well, it is. If you think it is for you, but if you don't, then it's not. Because for me, it's like fans can, people can like more than one band.
It's not like, you know, they might not be able to go to every single person's show and stuff like that. And getting streams, like there is a certain level of, there's only so much room, but at the same time, if you know, if you have good music, you're going to find an audience for it. I dunno, what do you, what's been your experience with that and that whole people seeing the music industry. Competitive
Dan Biddle: Maybe we should see it more like a sport and maybe we'll get to do more shows like the sporting coats get to do, but,
Rae Leigh: now
Dan Biddle: Yeah.Yeah.that's A whole
Rae Leigh: that's another story. Yeah.
Dan Biddle: but the yes, it's the competitiveness is probably over the top and it probably needs to everyone probably needs to reset and chill on that a little bit, I think.
And I think that we're in a phase like that because we are the, you know, the landscape of streaming. Is in a really good place and it's it spit it in and where with that. But now the numbers game has kind of taken over. Everybody's thinking, I, in a way not, sorry, I'm generalizing, let's not say everybody, but it is a big thing.
And I think that we're still as an industry finding our feet of what that landscape looks like. And then getting back to a time where it's like, okay, well, the, you know, the numbers make sense, so let's just make music. And I know it's sort of a romantic view of like the Laurel canyon thing in the late sixties, early seventies.
And I'm sure that they were still competitive. Like, you know, David Crosby would have been you know, worried about what Glenn Fry was doing or whatever, but. I'm sure there was competition all the way along, but you know, they didn't have to deal with numbers as much as artists and songwriters and everybody has to do today.
So, you know, I it'll come. I think when we, you know, the, these things, we're still in learning phases about how these things work. So, yeah, I mean, but I've had moments, you know, when you're sitting around the campfire at the back of the gimpy muster and it's just such a beautiful, connected community of people, but, you know, then we go home to our day jobs and it's like, ah, the numbers again, you know, so I wish every day could be a festival.
Really?
Rae Leigh: a country music festival.
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Well A country music festival, Yeah.
Rae Leigh: pretty much any music festival, but I mean, I've been to a few different ones in there. Definitely my favorite so far,
just because of that family vibe.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, yeah, for me even the more electronic and pop oriented country music which I know that, you know, that's, I guess the pocket where I specializing and, you know, there's a lot of opinions about that, but still at the end of the day, up on stage, there's people playing real organic instruments, well, electric versions of organic instruments, but, you know, it's still, when you break it down, most of those songs are kind of written on a acoustic guitar or at least says an acoustic guitar on the wall, in the room.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I think there's plenty of room for evolution. I'm definitely fit more in the pop electric Americana, I think is what they call it. Now. I don't know. I try not to waste too much brain energy on genres
fitting. I didn't get it. My seven year old, the other day he came in and I was just writing some
song on a,
guitar. Actually it was ringleader.
Cough showed you at the conference. And I was playing that song for my seven year old and he goes, mom, that's not
country. That's rock. And I'm like, who made you like this genre?
Dan Biddle: Oh yeah,
Rae Leigh: But then I played it slightly differently. I was like, oh yeah, that sounds more countries.
It made me I mean, he's obviously paying attention,
which is nice, like yeah.
Having the kids in the house, but it is funny. Cause everyone will have their own opinion about the the genres and stuff like that.
I was going to get back to
so what you said before about, cause we actually sort of discussed the whole making money and being successful in the music industry.
And
this is something else that I've also learned just
from going to industry events where essentially they say.
You know, don't quit your day job. You should just be trying to cover your costs and that is successful. And that kind of annoys me on one level. But I guess if you believe that, then that's fine.
And obviously there is space for everyone in the music
industry to, to do whatever they want,
if they want it to be more of a hobby thing, that's fine. But I wanted to talk to you and get your opinion on this because you're obviously managing these artists who
are running it as a business and doing it successfully.
I would love to hear what your opinion is on. If someone wants to go and, you know, make a
successful business, when I say successful And
are living from
it and be able to do it full time and not have to have a side hustle. What where do you stand on that? And w where is that for you Because it definitely is hard in Australia.
I find to find someone who believes that's possible.
Dan Biddle: Oh, I mean, it's totally possible. I mean, there's people do it all the time. You know, again, Fannie Lumsden is a great example of someone that has built a cottage business that, you know, is on the verge of growing beyond cottage business. I, you know where but you know, there's been a lot of hard work and, you know, and
acumen and tenacity and, the, and talent that have come
with that.
So, it's possible. I mean, it's the, this is the hard thing. If you're going to have
to something. Yeah. It's very hard
to expect that to then be you know, get a hundred
percent on it. So we're about at the
same time, it's like, you can't necessarily quit jobs to, to do a thing that may not pay for
you know, another year or two or three before you, you know, start sustaining
from it.
So I understand the complexities of that for everyone and,
But it's absolutely it's absolutely possible. And I mean, the thing is that there's no one blueprint that is going to fit everybody. And like it, Yeah. Any, anything that you say to, to one artist And one of the things that is really great about the country music industry is that there is a really sort of well-defined infrastructure.
Of how it's built. Like the country radio is very kind of set and structured the festivals you know, you know, when they're going to be and then they're very solid and you know, the venues and the promoters and all of that. it's like if you want to break into the country music industry, there is an infrastructure there that you can use to do that.
But that said, You know, there's no one blueprint of, yeah, do this. And you can. You know, you've got to make it. So that's the, well, that's the interesting thing for me is you try to work out what the jigsaw puzzle pieces are that you're working with. And then what is the picture
that, you know, you those pieces are going to make because you know, the artist or
the creator or the TA
the person with the talent needs to understand what picture they're trying to make before you can try and put that, jigsaw puzzle together, I guess.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a really good way to put it, cause everyone's going to be unique and it's like, starting a business. You never know when it's going to be the right time. and at some point, just like you had to kind of take your calculated risk, you know, you'll know when it's the right time that,
you know, you need to do that for yourself as well.
And he's got to follow your gut, I guess.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: I wanted to ask a little bit more, if you can explain to the songwriters and artists listening and to myself, when is it, what is it exactly that you do as a manager to support your acts that you're supporting? And when would someone need to seek out someone like yourself at an
artist manager to help them on their journey?
Dan Biddle: Okay. So, looking at the first, sorry, looking at the second part of that first again, there's not really a right answer to that, but what I would say is that.
Generally I try to only seek out artists to work with I'm. I'm not
I feel like the manager is going to do so much work.
And at times, you know, on, on on our hope that they're going to be paid eventually where, you know, when you work on a commission basis that they have to be so passionate about you that and that's probably going to come if they seek you out and not the other way around, someone that sort of tries to you know, not bad, you know, big a manager
to work with them.
Rae Leigh: I love
Dan Biddle: It's, I don't like that word that's I don't mean that in the connotation of what
Rae Leigh: like pitching though,
Dan Biddle: yeah.
Rae Leigh: you say, seeking and pitching. And I really liked that you said that because I have that feeling. It's like, you know, if I'm at that point where I need these sorts of people, I, you know, I want to be at the point where they're actually asking me, or like, I've got a booking agent wanting to work with me, or I've got a manager or publisher or someone like that, or a label even wanting to work with me.
But I speak to so many people where it's like, ah, just, I need a manager or I need a book. I've got to I'm going to pitch for this, or I want to get this. And it's like, me, I don't know if this is just my head and cause I'm not, I'm feeling new to the industry compared to someone like yourself. I think it's like, surely if you have a good song and you're working hard on creating a good show and a good act and good entertainment and music and you have good songs, all of that other stuff should then
kind of, you know, like, like a bug
to a flame.
Yeah. Like.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. All apps. Absolutely. And it is
a really small industry. Like, I mean, it's, it does seem big in a way, but you know, like everyone. Fairly connected. And if you are making if you are making some smoke or, you know, you're making some noise, then I do feel like eventually, you know, hopefully someone's going to come around.
And the problem is that there are more great artists than there are great managers at this point in time. And you know, for anyone that's listening, that's you know, knows people that might be good at managing, you know, Encourage them to get into the business because I think we need a lot more people in that side of things and Yeah.
that there needs to be more mentoring and things for young managers.
So. I for me. Yeah.
I like to seek out artists that I would you know, be passionate about to work with. And so that's one thing. Another thing I would say is that before I touch on, you know, the jobs that I do I would say as a piece of advice, like really do your research about the people, like, let's say you do an artist or somewhere that does get approached by a manager or anyone in the business, really do your homework and ask around about their credentials and their you know, what successes have they had and what's her personality like and all that kind of thing, because it can be tarnishing to work with the wrong people as Well, And I've seen a lot of instances where, you know, yeah, people are in management agreements and. You know, for whatever the manager's not cutting it and they become stifled and they might have some momentum going. And then all of a sudden they're sort of gone because there's been 6, 9, 12 months of inactivity, and then they let go of the manager and take their career back into their own hands.
And then things start moving again. So it's not always the be all and end all, they have someone working with you. It can be detrimental, but in terms of jobs that I do, so we're coming I'll I dunno. I mean, if we take, like, let's say an artist, same Missy Lancaster, who I saw Missy playing supporting the Viper Creek band at the long yard hotel in Tamworth in July, 2015.
And she was just doing solo acoustic, but she was a rocket and that the crowd were up and dancing and it's like, you know, it was great. And I, you know, chatted with her and her family the next day. I was like, yeah,
I really want to manage you. That was on the Saturday you know, chatted again on the Sunday and, you know, we you know, or wait, yeah.
Okay, cool. Let's do this. And then on the Monday I called my contact at Gibson and I was cause I was like, well, you know, it would be good for Missy to have like a guitar company. Kind of working with her because it will help with some credibility, you know, like yeah. So, you know, Gibson went, yeah, look, we'll, you know, give you a an Epiphone hummingbird.
So I thought the hummingbird is, Yeah,
there's so many us artists that play the hummingbird. It's not used a lot in Australia and it was an Epiphone, not a Gibson and, you know, but it was like, well, you know, that's a Nice.
kind of endorsement to
have episode
on the posters. It's like, okay, well, ah, you know, there's something.
So that, that happened two days after, after seeing the game. And then, you know, and then it was
like
You know, put it to her family, that she should go to Nashville and record the piece. So then by October, 2015 in Nashville, recording and AP I, you know, got the songs, produce all of that stuff.
You know, then there's photo shoots then there's managing the release of that music. And so that came out in January, 2016 and chartered in the aria chart. I did a promo and I did the poster rundown Tamworth. I was out at midnight sticking the posters up. And then you know, and then we got an offer of a record deal from Sony and negotiated that deal and blah, blah, blah.
And that kind of, so, so, you know, there's those things like it was, I could see a picture of where, you know, she could go and I I put the picture in my mind and then I enacted it and it's like, you know, it's not necessarily. It's like just picking up the phone and talking to people and go, Hey, I've got this, you know, this artists are doing this and that and booking the gigs and then booking the band that, you know, the backing band, all those sorts of things when it comes to the McClymonds.
So they were already signed with universal music that with Sony music publishing and you know, they didn't have a booking agent at the time when I came along. So we put them with Harbor agency and we built that relationship.
And then you know, I mean, I got Jayco involved as a sponsor on a tour for them.I,
Got you know, at the by the sort of six months into it, it was no longer like the creative person at universal you know, managing the photo shoots and video shoots. So it just gave me a budget and I would sort of produce the videos and you know, bring in the director and things like that.
And yeah, I had some creative input, but more like I'd be traveling, finding locations, things like that. So it's a full gamut.
Rae Leigh: Full service.
Dan Biddle: yeah, I mean, you know, with the McClymonds they're you know, one of their biggest songs today has been a song called forever begins tonight, which was so when they were going.
For writing session, it was Brooklyn Adam's house with their producer, Lindsay rinds. And they're about to go into the shed to write a song. And I said, why don't you write a song for Sam's wedding? Cause she was getting married like six months later or whatever. And I was like, why when you write a song for Sam's wedding and they came out with that, and then that song got added to smooth their fam and it was a Sam got the hosting job of following wants a wife, which come through a connection that I'd put together.
So that was 2016. Sees that a farmer wants a wife. She hosted that. And the girls performed the song in the show and the tour that we did off the back of that was the biggest. Per capita per night, attendances that they'd ever done it up
to that point. And yeah, just so is momentum things that like, you just do one thing and then that leads to this thing and that leads to this thing.
And that word momentum that is like every day in my mind, and like, you know, momentum builds momentum and you just got to get that ball rolling and not let it
stop once you do kind of thing.
Rae Leigh: just keep going. And like there, that can be challenging because there are,
In the, in an artist lifespan or any anyone's lifespan, there are times when you need to have a break. How do you kind of manage that with your artists
Dan Biddle: Well, I mean,
Rae Leigh: a, they have a top touchy topic.
Dan Biddle: I just, I mean, the thing is that, you know, in Australia, you pretty much only do show. Friday Saturday nights. You know, most people go to work
from nine to five, let's say, you know, five days a week. Yeah. look burnout, you know, if people are struggling in any kind of personal or, you know, you obviously, you know, you've got to take care of people and all of that kind of thing, and this is an emotional job And it's very, you know, Yeah.it's the judgment that can
come with this is it can be all encompassing, but I think that there's a lot of time available in a day and that you should use it.
And you know, it's unfortunate when people don't use their time to the best ability that they could, you know, That's really upsetting. I mean, I am a,
like, I think the talent has to come first. And hard work comes second, right? Like I, the, Yeah. without the talent hard work, won't make things happen.
But,
Rae Leigh: true.
Dan Biddle: The And if you have lots of talent, but don't do a lot of hard work, he can, you know, you can make it to a degree, but when you combine those things, you know that's a Taylor
Rae Leigh: the magic. Yeah. That's where
Dan Biddle: that's the they're cheering. That's you know, I mean, Delta guy those they're working all the time and they get the rewards for it.
Rae Leigh: And they have a team around them and they've built that. And I, yeah, I've had that question recently. Actually someone said, oh, how do you find the time? And I'm like, you don't find time. We all have 24 hours in a day. That's a unique level playing field that we all have. You don't find more of it.
You just, you choose how you spend it, whether that's asleep, watching Netflix or writing a song like,
Dan Biddle: yeah after nine months of having a zombie shooter game on my phone, I deleted it two months ago. And the amount of work that I'm getting done and I'm pumped about it, like it, it
was like, oh, I got, you know, I came in the COVID trap of doing things that you aren't necessarily productive, but Yeah,
Rae Leigh: Oh, that's so me, I've been addicted to like candy crush And like games like that, especially when I had, you know, babies I'd do it when I was breastfeeding and stuff, but like, it is such a trap as well. Cause then you think I could have been reading books. You know, doing something educational with that.
Then you can look at your phones now And you can see how much time you spend on that stuff. and
it's just it's The, same. It's interesting now that we really can with our phones, see what we spend our time
on and yeah.
What you spend your time on is Yeah.
What you spend your time on and what you spend your money on that is going to tell you what you value in life.
Unfortunately, but
hopefully it's a good wake up call as well. So that's really cool.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, but I just
quickly, like, I mean, I, you know, for moms and, you know, anyone that's, you know, doing,
going through that process, like, you know, you should always take that time out and enjoy it and, you know, and enjoy or as much, you know,
Rae Leigh: There is nothing wrong with rest.
Dan Biddle: No, take that in. And
I, you know, that's one thing with the McClymonds that I'm really
proud of is the fact that. Yeah. There's been a baby a year for six years in a
row.
And,
That's three to six months even though there a trio, you know, it's still kind of
not, but we managed to yeah, really maintain a good momentum and grow, you know, I think grow their business and their cause I was trying to work out.
It's like how many people in Australia know dishonest that I'm working with? Like, I'm in, I'm just thinking about Australia to start with, but it's like, did you know, like to it two out of 10 people or is it three out of 10 people? You know, not every house, every person in Australia knows anyone.
And I guess, you know, John
Farnham, Jimmy bonds, that's a whole different thing, but So, yeah, but I, anyway point is I think we managed
to grow that percentage, I think, while having six babies and and you know, so I'm really proud of that.
And of course, you know, that's what they needed to do and their lives to reach her for it.
And that's great. So
yeah,
Rae Leigh: it's inspirational to see working moms doing what they love and still, also having a family. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am totally an advocate for mums following their dreams and pursuing their passions while still also being caring and loving mothers. That's two things that can definitely coincide.
And
Dan Biddle: Kenny as well in,
in having Lumsden as well in my, you know, for my personal experience. So Yeah,
no that's it's challenging from the point of view of manager, but it's important personally. And so, you know, it's, you're answering a question on that. If people aren't enjoying it and they're not enjoying their life, then I probably won't last to the job very
long anyway, because it's like, you know, yeah.
There has
to be a life balance.
Rae Leigh: you've got to be able to have fun. And like, that's part of what we're doing this for. I would like to know through all of the jobs and different things that you have done and seen, and even artists that you've managed and with the, all the stuff that you do, it's just, there's too much to actually realist.
What would you say the best advice is that you could give for anyone, you know, in the music industry right now?
What's the one thing that they should be
focused on.
Dan Biddle: Well, always the hardest question. But I think being really clear about who you are. And where you want to go is the first step to anything really. And that's not just for artists, that's for people in the music, you know, people in whatever job. And, you know, like I
said earlier, you know, when I was 16, it was like, I want to be a managing director of water music.
I was very specific about that is what I wanna do
Rae Leigh: that still the goal?
Dan Biddle: Well, I mean, not,
necessarily worn out. The company changed a lot over the last 20 years is that it's still a great company. They have lots of great people and great music and everything. But yeah, I mean, I think that at some point in time I will maybe not a major label, probably more of an indication.
You know, company and you know, have that record label side of things running, but yeah, just knowing who you are and where you want to go is the first thing. because You've got to build a career plan and that career plan has to have a destination and that destination needs to be fitting with who you are because you know, you know, I have it from time to time where people, you know, might have an interest in country music, but it's like,
Is that
really who you are?
Is that really what you want to be? Is that, you know, or,
Yeah. Yeah. Look so
that's
Rae Leigh: hard. And that's
something that everyone's going to do in there in time and work it out and constant thing. You've got to constantly ask
yourself that question, because it will change and evolve as you grow as a
person as well. Right?
Dan Biddle: That's right. And sometimes it's people don't even know what's actually possible to achieve. And so I guess that is something that comes into play with my job is, you know, and I guess the, you know, at times it's nice When an artist has to, like you you know, you know, more about where I'm going than I do And it's like, yeah, well, yeah, but I know that you've got that potential. So as long as you want, if that's where you want to go, that you can do it and they might not have thought about that. But so there's that, and then unfortunately it's really important to be building your social network
that is really
quite crucial.
In.
Rae Leigh: When you say build social network, do you mean your actual physical social network
or do You mean Facebook and Spotify? All that sort of
stuff.
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
You know, your platforms, social media. Yeah. You know, whatever identity you're going to have on that you know, on that, in that world, like you need to build it. So that's, you know, and that makes me, you know, kind of makes me sad that's the case, but on the flip side of that, it used to be that your options for marketing were putting an ad in the strict press, or if you're doing well, you would put an ad on the radio, or if you're doing super well, you put an ad on the TV.
You know, isn't it great that we now have a platform where, you know, we can add promote ourselves, you know, relatively inexpensively apart from the input of time that you've got to put into it, which is
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Dan Biddle: And that time has a value, but it needs to be a thing every day, I'm going to spend 30 minutes, half an hour or an hour, whatever it's going to be to work on that side of my business.
And and that is fantastic to have that. And Yeah,
there is paid advertising that can come with that as well. It's still a lot cheaper than putting out in the street press or radio advertising. So that's really essential and
yeah.
and just, you know, right. Practicing your craft as much as possible, you know, Yeah. You know, writing and standing in front of me you know, for anyone that. wants to be a performer, you know, standing in front of a mirror or filming your your moves And practicing your moves so that when you get the chance to get on a stage you've done a bit of groundwork to become comfortable with that because, you know, there was a time I think when you know, artists could tour kind of Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, maybe Sundays as well.
Like back in the nineties, up til about the mid two thousands,
You know, the McClymonds did
in 2006, seven did a 18 month to a
supporting lead cardigan
where there were about, they were playing about four nights a week and that
gives you Yeah, so much grounding
in in stagecraft and all of that side of it, but that is opportunities don't exist now.
Not just COVID Judy COVID, but you know, for the
last decade, people really only want to go out on a Friday or Saturday night. And so yeah, the opportunities to play on a proper stage with a proper PA system in a show concert setting is don't come up very often So you've got to practice that at home to be ready for when those opportunities come up.
So, something else I would say is that, you know, I'm seeing lots of people releasing music way too early just be patient and make sure that you've got the right song at the right time with the right publicist and there's the right plan in place so that, you know, cause really, if you're going to release a song
today, You need to be
ready for the next song now, you know, like
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Dan Biddle: there's no point, like if he released song and you get a hit, you've got to follow it up.
And so, yeah, like you see, like someone puts out a song and it goes great. And then you don't hear anything for 9, 10, 12 months. And it's like, well, or any momentum that you started is now gone and you've got to start again. So don't be in a rush. Like if you got one song that you think is good, And you don't have to release it now, like keep working at it like this.
Thankfully, the industry is not as ageist as it once was. And it's like, if the, a good song connect can connect at any time and it doesn't matter how
old you are. It's like, if the song is
great and you've got a compelling story and you've got
a great foundation and a great plan, there's no reason
why it can't work, you know?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I love that. and there is a big thing at there about age it's something I come across quite often when I'm out and about, or when I'm talking to people is often either people either feel too young or too. You know, no, no one's ever happy with how old they are.
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: It's like, that's actually, it's like, you are what you are and everyone's at that time in life and you just,
yeah. it's not worth wasting energy and precious mental energy on wishing you were different age because you have
no control over that. Right. Like, but it is a thing.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
no, it is a
thing. And it's a mental barrier. You know, like the other things like competition and jealousy and all those things that you've got to, you've got to get through that, but, you know, yeah. It's just, I guess there are a lot of yeah, probably more younger in inverted commas, artists who, or emerging artists who are just rushing to release something. and I know, that they're really excited and want to get out there but you've got to have a
plan
and set to speak patient to make sure that you get all the details, right. Before you
just go for it,
Rae Leigh: Yep. And there's so many courses out there to do and learn.
And I don't know, unless you like me and you
just want to
throw it out there and see what happens
Dan Biddle: yeah.
Rae Leigh: and learn the hard way.
Dan Biddle: Create each of its
Sony to go manage a band
and you know, you know, in which case that's fine, but,
No, it's Yeah,
I mean, on the flip side of the,
on the flip side of
being patient is
don't leave it too long as well that you kind of, you know, sometimes we do
procrastinate and overthink things and there is a point where it's like I've got to go for it now, but I would just say,
W if you get a release, say song, make
sure that you've got the follow-up and the one, and maybe like two singles in the bank
ready to go. Because you don't want to lose
the momentum. If you get it started.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I like that. And I actually, I think I've heard that one before, but I'd forgotten it So thank you for the reminder. But yeah, like you, right. If you release something and there is success, these days, people have such a short attention span. You need to kind of stay front of mind in that is, can be challenging to navigate, but it's worth planning. and there is a lot of courses and things out there to help people plan and create these sort of master business plans. But you have to do that in any industry, not just music, business, it's any business needs to have a plan.
So it's always good to have a plan.
Dan Biddle: lately. Yeah. probably every three or four months is a good kind of timeframe to aim for, to, you know, have a new use and new single out. And you know, it doesn't mean you necessarily have to do an expensive video or all that kind of stuff. Every time you might build up until you get that song where it's like, yeah, this is the one where I'm going to
invest, you know, a good amount of money to get
it. You know, get it
going. But you know, every three or four months is. you know,
you kinda need to be having
something rolling generally. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And the, and that landscape's changing. And we just to kind of keep up to date with whatever the fashion is.
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: But yeah,
no,
that's good. I actually was reading I'm in the middle of writing a book called the realistic guide to a successful music career. By Joel Cummings, have you heard that one?
It's actually a, like a lot of the information we've covered today sort of talks about it in there, but he also talks about the fact that if you have a written plan about where you want your career to go, you know, you're like 90% ahead versus, you know, and more likely those things are actually going to happen if you wrote them down.
So, yeah,
Dan Biddle: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: was just a relevant book to I'm recommending there for the podcast. But I have another question. And I know
we've talked for ages, so thank you so much for your time. You've obviously just got so much wisdom to share. I want to know a little bit more about your inspirations.
So if you could work with anyone in the world, any artist in the world, living or dead, who would it be and why?
Dan Biddle: Oh far out?
Rae Leigh: A deep breath. It's
Dan Biddle: It's hard, but, okay. So,
all right. I was talking about before the you know, my interest in hair metal, let's call it glam rock and stuff from the eighties. And so the I would say that the artists that I've listened to more than my top three most listened to artists of all time would be the McClymonds.
And,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Dan Biddle: Ryan Adams, which I'm not sure if you meant to you know.
I was, you know, he's had some things that were Not good that came out, but still there was a good sort of 20 year period or 19 year period there where he would get played a lot. And then the other one is fin Highland. And so, David Lee Roth
is I used the word wackadoodle, like he's so not from listening to a pod, an American pulp cast, it's such an American word, but that he's just so crazy, so insane.
And I found the email address for his attorney and I was trying to like, cause I was trying to work out. This was only like three weeks ago and I was
like, like, David Lee Roth is such an interesting character and
just was, had a crazy career from like 78 to 84. This van Halen. it was just off the charts.
And I was like, I would love to work with him.
And you know, just, I dunno, do a project with him. I just think that would be incredibly
interesting, like this guy that, you know, got so many stories from from that time.
But I dunno, it's a, that's a hard,
it's a really hard question. For me I'm just really enjoying.
What I'm doing now and that probably sounds cliched. But you know, look, I mean, I would like to, I mean, generally not, you know, not just talking about like specific artists, but I would like to have some international you know, activity and success. And, you know, I took Adam, had we made some groundwork into the K a couple of years ago and meant to go back last year of course.
But you know, and so that was really exciting. I loved seeing what was happening in the country music industry in the UK and Europe. And I, I really thought that would be, you know, making some inroads there. And so I'm really keen to pick that up when the opportunity comes back up and of course, you know, America is a goal and I've been in Nashville about six times in the last sort of seven years.
But you know, I would love to have something break you out over there, but, you know, I, I want someone to become a household name in Australia from doing country music as well. Like find someone from the ground, you know, from the ground up to that. That's the biggest thing for me is like, you know, find
something completely new and together, build it to,
To being a household name as in inverted commerce.
If
you know what I mean?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Not just in Australia, but in the world.
Dan Biddle: well, the world would be great,
but let's start with Australia. Yeah,
Rae Leigh: that though. I was actually like, it went really well into the Nick. I was going to ask you about your sort of ambitions and goals for the future, because I know that you have them, but I'm a big believer that especially with the world that we have, and like, even just for example, in the last, not even 12 months with this podcast, seeing such international reach, it's like, that is such an achievable thing.
Now, you know, it, it may not be on the same level is, but I don't understand why anyone would limit themselves to just one
country or one radio station even.
Dan Biddle: okay. And this is, yeah. Something that I was hoping that we would get to talk about is that people talk down about streaming so much try and
Rae Leigh: Okay.
Dan Biddle: Spotify, whereas the brunch of it unfairly. And I know there will be lots of people who disagree with me, but
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Dan Biddle: YouTube are far worse than Spotify in terms of the revenues that they pay up versus what that like.
Okay. So YouTube a far more bigger problem than Spotify, but no one talks about it because it's just big easy to talk about Spotify being a problem. And
You know, there should be an industry-wide campaign to go out and educate the whole person fans, but also educate the industry about the fact that streaming is not the enemy.
It has opened up the world. You know, if tines and I had released. Dance monkey in 1995, there is no way that it would be the biggest song in the world in the last two years. Like
Rae Leigh: yeah. Right.
Dan Biddle: w when you look at the amazing artists that we had in Australia, like jock, yeah,
They all tried overseas chisel. Farnam Noiseworks every, everybody tried and only a couple male men at work in excess crowded house had a big hit
with daydream and cyber, but that was kind of it, midnight oil had a big hit with beds burning, you know?
Well, yeah, Keith urban
Rae Leigh: Poster Australian boy.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, but you know, but the father sorority of Australian accent when overseas just didn't cut through. And so now
it's an open world and that's why Australian artists are doing so well, so
great on an international level. So that opportunity has come from streaming.
And so next time you people go
to put, you know, say bad things about streaming. Think
about that fact that it's opened
up a global market for us, all, which is fantastic because we're not relying
on a record company to agree to release our CD in Malaysia. People can get it there
automatically, but as a
side to that, another thing about this
streaming stuff is. If Spotify make
a dollar, they keep 30 cents. Right? So,
30% is their operating margin. That's fair. It's a fair percentage. Keeps 70%, sorry. 70
cents. Okay.
Is left. 12 cents goes to the publisher
or the songwriter 58 cents goes to the record company or the song writer writes owner. Now
Rae Leigh: Okay.
Dan Biddle: some artists are on like a 15 to 20% deal with their record company.
So out of the 58 cents
that the record companies got, the artist is going to get
15 to 20% of that. And that 15,
20% has got to go back to paying the unrecouped costs that come
with producing records and videos and photo shoots and all those sorts of things. So when people kind of go, I'm not making any money.
Out of streaming and all
this kind of thing, they need to talk to their record label about
And do good
deals with their record
labels. It's not, Spotify is fault that money is
not filtering through to artists. It's
it sits with the record companies, but I love record companies. They do lots of great stuff, but this conversation about streaming needs to be
fixed because it you know, it's a really great
thing that we've got this now because the world would be, our world would be much
tougher without it.
Rae Leigh: Let's not blame them. let's embrace them. I reckon. That's it's good. I,
Dan Biddle: the facts, like let's get the full information,
you know, that's my
Rae Leigh: is good. And I like, honestly, without this sort of independent record label world that we live in now I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. You know, everything I've done is independent through just, you know, releasing to that system.
And so many people can do that. Now you don't need to rely on someone else in. the music industry to believe in. You will want to work with You
You just gotta believe in yourself and then do it.
Dan Biddle: Absolutely. You can do it.
You can make a business out of music. Absolutely.
Rae Leigh: And there's a market for you and it might be in Sweden. That's fine. But you know, you'll find your market and then who knows what will happen. But no, I love that. That's really cool. And so international artists travel the world. I want to do Europe, but my husband's British. So,
The UK and Europe are probably going to be the next thing.
But yeah, I'm looking forward to the world, reopening up and
getting out and playing as much as possible. It's going to be amazing. Yeah,
Dan Biddle: They love all, they, you know, they love Australians over there
and they. They love. music And the festivals are great.
And so, you know, there's every
opportunity.
So yeah, no, go for
it.
Rae Leigh: Well, I found out last year I released a song for my dad's 70th birthday called father's love. And I found out because I released that song that apparently Ireland loved songs about family members say moms, dads, daughters, sons, you know, so they loved it. And got a few radio interviews over there and a few plays and stuff, which was completely random because it was just through a Facebook connection.
So like, you know, like you said, all of that sort of stuff does play and work together. And if you're a good person and you
just put your head down and constantly work on your craft I dunno, the world
will open up in the right ways.
Dan Biddle: yeah, absolutely. Get the plan. Yeah, Knowing what you
want to do, get the plan in place. Practice. be ready.
for those opportunities when you get going
On it. So, yeah, it's not easy.
Rae Leigh: be ready.
Dan Biddle: It's not easy,
but it's not impossible at all.
Like it is, you know, do you get your, I had say you got to have a go, but you know, yeah.
It's definitely achievable.
Rae Leigh: it's a lifestyle and yeah. That's where if you love it, as much as I do you'll have fun.
I don't feel like I've worked a day. I'm like the last three years, but at the same time I look at the amount of work I've done.
I'm like, that's insanely more than I ever did in my sales rep to help, you know,
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Dan Biddle: understand the value of that.
That's really important to know that has value that and that, you know, that's
another positive thing out of this last year is that maybe people in all different walks of life are understanding the value of having time with family or having time working in the garden or things like that.
And we can slow down a little bit, but you know, it's not just about dollars for sure.
Rae Leigh: it's a good question. Someone asked me once and I think I've heard it before, somewhere on a movie or something, but like, if you know, if money wasn't an object and you could do whatever you wanted to be wherever you wanted in the world and have all the money in the world, what would you do? And for me, I'm like, I don't think I'd change anything. And I think that's a good space to be in. If you can say that for me, that's success,
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: you know, I mean, I probably just do more of what I'm doing.
Dan Biddle: That's right. Yeah.I mean, you.did invest that and that, and I think about that as well. It's like, if we won millions of dollars, what would
we do? And it's like, well, just invest it in signing more artists and hiring people and build this business bigger because yeah, I got
Rae Leigh: your record label. Wouldn't you.
Dan Biddle: Yeah, well, you know, I got another 25 years to go, so,
Rae Leigh: Plenty of time.
Dan Biddle: Yeah. I'm not like I'm not gonna retire at this point in time, even if I had the money, you know, there's a lot of things still to do, so. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: This is my retirement job, so,
Dan Biddle: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: all right. Well, is there anything else you would like to say that you don't feel like we've covered in your featured
Dan Biddle: No, that was a great chat. thank you for having me. and you know, yeah. It's good to think about the motivations behind being in this business and things. So, yeah, it's great.
Rae Leigh: absolutely. Well, thank you so much for jumping on and sharing, or just probably a fraction of the wisdom that you've had, but really important information for me and anyone else who's listening. So Yeah, Thank you. And I'm sure I will see you at some country music festival around the corner really soon.
Dan Biddle: Absolutely.
