#184 Hanson
Zac from the band Hanson joins Rae on a Songwriter Trysts intimate podcast with a personal account of their band, how and why they had the achievements they did from such a young age, how they have evolved and what amazing people they have had the chance to work with. Now with a cool new Hanson album which in a way is a compile of three separate EP's one from each brother where each of them wrote 5 songs and will release them all together.
Fatherhood, life, music industry, faith and lockdown are just some of the topics that come up during this chat about their new music.
Hanson are releasing their album RED GREEN BLUE with a world tour, they are a 3 x Grammy Award-nominated pop-rock trio selling over 16 million albums and performed concerts to over 3 million fans. Get prepared for the greatness of their music to hit your playlists really soon.
Single featured in the podcast 'Write You A Song'
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a Songwriter Trysts with Zach, from Hanson. Thanks for joining me.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah, I'm glad to be here.
Rae Leigh: I like to get every artist to start off by telling us a little bit about who you are and where you come from. And maybe tell us a little bit about the origin of Hanson.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. My name is Zach Hanson. from Oklahoma in the U S and I've been in a band with. Two older brothers for 30 years. So, uh, yeah,
Rae Leigh: band, let alone family band.
Zachary Hanson: you know, it's just something we were in a way born into, I joke that I joined the band when I was about 18, but of course at 18, I'd been in the band for 12 years. So yeah, I think
Rae Leigh: what do you mean by that?
Zachary Hanson: well that it was very unconscious. That's something that, happened very naturally and it choice of whether I was in the band up until that point. It was really just a question of what I wanted to do with that skill and that opportunity, you know, that had already been developed because when you're doing something, when you're a child, you know, particularly. Single digits. So many things are just subconscious and kind of you're reacting. You're not necessarily saying I want that. How do I get it? And thinking through that whole logic problem, going, yes, let's go. Here we go.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. How could you at that age? He, yeah, we noticed so little at that age and we expect our parents and adults around us to help guide us. And we just make decisions based on what we think those people, we have to trust, we have to trust so many people there's children. Yeah, can't even imagine, like I have a five-year-old boy and a seven year old girl and a nine year old boy, and I just, I can't even imagine them being into something. So like, you know, deciding what they want to do with the rest of their lives. You know, they're just trying everything at this age. How did you guys like decide that music was your thing? So early on.
Zachary Hanson: Well, I should give more credit to my two older brothers than myself, because I think the dry. Was more in them. I mean, I was six and I think the way that that works is you, you like the attention you, you realize you're pretty good at it. And you kind of kind of do it because the result is people cheer for you.
And the result is maybe you get like an ice cream or Hey, you, you made, you made $50 playing a concert. What do you want to do? I want to buy every GI Joe on the shelf, and we were lucky that that combination of things was I think really unique, which is three siblings that could do it together that could fill in the gaps for each other. And we're very much that way where, you hear it in this new album. Though we very similar experiences, our personalities, our way of going about things, even our way of writing songs is, is very different and it can be very complimentary, which is wonderful. And then of course it can be absolutely painful when it isn't complimentary because you approach it. It's such a distinctly you way.
Rae Leigh: How do you guys go about writing a song together? Is it a fully mutual thing or is it one person writes, one song has work.
Zachary Hanson: Well, we definitely do it as a band. So I would say that that's more conscious these days. Hey, let's write a, a band song. Everybody sit at your respective roles and Zack you're on the drums and Taylor on piano and Isaac on guitar. And there's, there's those kinds of songs. You consciously do that. Because it's a style. It's a sound that, is unique to the way we play, but probably more often than not, it's someone with a chorus, with an idea, saying, Hey, here's where I want to go. And then that's a game of follow the leader. That's the game of where are you going? And how do I get you there faster?
How do I get you there better? You know, because. I think of a song. We put out a song a couple of years ago called tragic symphony. And I remember I walked into the room and this moment, I don't remember what lyric he was singing, but Taylor was singing something else. And I said, man, tragic symphony, that's really cool line. And he goes, I wasn't saying tragic, but that's the line now, you know, that's.
Rae Leigh: better by mishearing him.
Zachary Hanson: Correct. But I miss hearing that that's the unique quality of when you can have writing partners that you trust and you're sharing things early enough in the process that they're still able to be
altered.
Rae Leigh: Yep. Is there when you are writing songs for the band versus maybe, you know, doing it for personal therapeutic reasons, do you have like an overall mission or a, or a. Like a vision of what your music portrays and puts out into the world? Or is this something you always go back to say, this is this, you know, saying what we want it to say as a band?
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. What I would say, I kind of have one guiding thought about what I'm supposed to write, which is it needs to be true. And so that can be funny. That can be sad. That can be spiritual. That can be agnostic, but it needs to be based in something that is genuinely feels grounded in truth. And if you do that, I don't care what it is.
You know, I wrote a series of songs about. A few years back called edible digital pants and, and everything in there still fell into that kind of truth thing. You know, I wrote a song about hating vegetables and for me, like the heart of it, like I could hear every kid five to 12 going, this is so real. He gets me.
Right. Um,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I totally get that. That's cool. I like that. I
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. Yeah. I just wrote a song yesterday, which we're recording. It's called strange world. And, for me, like that's equally true. And honestly, it's all about feeling like sometimes as a person you should have like, w why isn't the world more honest? Like, we don't really say what we mean.
We don't really see the reality of what the world is. When you look at a person, you see a person you don't see, like everything they're made of, it's strange. The world is strange. And so that's equally true as a song about not liking vegetables, you know?
Rae Leigh: I love that. I think we see what people want us to see. And sometimes if we're really looking, we will see past that. I don't know, in your experience with my experience, sometimes seeing the truth or seeking the truth is not liked by everyone. Sometimes people don't want to face their own truth and. I struggle with that. So I think that's one of the reasons I do music and I'll write songs is because I feel like I'm free to speak my truth and express it in a creative way through song, without it being judged or someone getting angry at me for saying things how it is. And, you know?
you can use different tools like comedy or whatever to put it in there, but. I think that's really interesting that you can have that freedom and music and art to put your honest opinion out there, truthfully.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And people don't really like, you can't really debate with a song you can try, but the song's not going to argue back. It just, it is what it is, you know,
Zachary Hanson: I think you, you have this obligation as an artist. to give of yourself. Right. That's what makes truly good art. And if you aren't seeking that out and putting that into the music, then, then you're just writing what people, if you're writing what you think people want to hear, that's not good art.
That's some sort of commercialism, which works a lot of times, but it, it doesn't make it good. You know, just like Doritos are delicious, but they're not good for you, you know?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's nuts as well. In my opinion. Which is a very, no one cares about my opinion, but I think that being false in that sense of not going deep and being real is not sustainable. Like if you're trying to be something that. All the time. Like, I feel like I would burn out if I was trying to do that.
And I think I have done like as a kid or teenagers growing up, you know, we're all trying to fit in and find who we are and present who we think everyone wants us to be. Or at least I experienced that as a teenager and it just wasn't sustainable. I just couldn't keep up the Sharat of, you know,
Zachary Hanson: you're
Rae Leigh: to be. Good little pastor's kid Christian girl, that doesn't listen to secular music, you know, of course, because that's not what good Christian girls do. And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't do it, you know, I just burnt out and it was like, what what's going on? I'm doing what everyone tells me is the right.
thing to do.
And it's not right. I think the sames without,
Zachary Hanson: that's sort of an interesting topic. We don't really talk about that that much. I mean, we really grew up singing in church, right. That's where we
Rae Leigh: Yeah, me too.
Zachary Hanson: And, I remember one of our first experiences and probably. To some extent, the inspiration for songs like weird or songs like, oh, Bob from our first record was feeling that dichotomy as a young person where. People want you to be something. W first for instance, what is Christian music? Well, as far as I can tell it, it's mostly music written by Christians, right? If you write your principles and your views, it's just like a dear friend of ours who passed away a couple of years ago, Steve Ripley, from Oklahoma, he said, what is country music? It's music written by people from the country. You know, it's not.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Zachary Hanson: We found ourselves, I think in that same place and the results really is just, you know, who you're supposed to be. You know, if you really are listening, you know who you're supposed to be. That's gonna rub some people wrong sometimes, and that's okay. As long as you're not doing it with malice, you know, just be.
Rae Leigh: You can't avoid triggering people. And I think I was always afraid for a very long time of triggering, but, you know, making people upset or a bit making people angry. And I dunno if that's a female thing, but you know, we're all very people pleasing. We want everyone to be happy. But when you're speaking the truth, you can't do that.
It's going to trigger someone at some point. But I had to learn that that's not a bad thing because when people get triggered, when I get triggered, for example, that is when I have to face whatever it is, that's triggering me. I have to face that issue and I, I can work through that and I can start the healing process. Like the trigger is just Hey, you need to do with this. Let's do with it. Or I can avoid it and, you know, escape from it using other methods. But yeah, I've had that. Yeah. So, I mean,
Zachary Hanson: know, I think. And, and I might be overstepping, I think usually the truth doesn't really trigger people as in like, you offended me if it is, if it is triggering people, it's, it's probably triggering a personal frustration because if you're saying something that's true to you, something you've experienced, something you've gone through.
You know, like when I, when I read a song that maybe talks about. A good father. Right. And I
have five kids, right. I'm pulling, I'm pulling that from my experience of being a father and good and bad, and my dad and good and bad. And like, that's, that's real. It's not, it's not really debatable, you know? So if it hurts someone's feelings or triggers them, cause they had a bad dad,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Zachary Hanson: you know, that that's, I'm still loving them by sharing my story. Yeah. I'm not, you know,
Rae Leigh: Yeah, and I think it's, it's their choice, how they respond to that trigger. They can get angry and blame blame the world, or they can go hang on a second. I'm really hurt by that. And then ask the question why and go internal and, and deal with that. But if, if you didn't trigger them, they wouldn't have that opportunity to choose.
Every time we're triggered by something, we have a choice as to how we react and respond. And that is what defines us, I think is, is our choices. world will keep triggering you until you deal with it.
Zachary Hanson: well, you, you, you said you have three kids. So I mean, you know that like as a parent, I mean, you're sort of like a bumper rails at a bowling alley. You know, you don't really control where the ball goes. You're just trying to keep it going in the right direction. You know, you're
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Zachary Hanson: Trying to, trying to get your kids to ask questions about themselves.
Why do you feel this way? Why don't you want to get up? But you know, in the morning, go to school, what is, you know, why do you like that girl? Or, you know, all these things. And so if music. Is causing people to ask questions and, and sort of explore themselves. I think that's probably means you've done your job.
Rae Leigh: I think that's perfect. Yeah. And that's not just music, but all art, in my opinion. Anyways, that's what it's there for is to help us learn who we are, so tell me about, you've done co-writing and. Zach, you've obviously done your own writing outside of the band. Do you guys do much songwriting solo or co-writing with other people like it or is it all in the band?
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. So, so we do a ton of writing though. I would say writing for other people is a really interesting process because, in those situations when labels and all those things are getting involved. Yeah, for years and years, we we've done lots of writing with other people, even host a, a songwriting camp, usually once a year where we'll bring in about 20 different artists and, and write songs for them and their albums and their projects and things.
And it's lots of people that, that you might know. Many many more that you'll never know. That's really, I think more about the joy of creating with really talented people. And you just kind of never know where things will end up. Weird Al has been there and, we, he's my favorite. He's my friend sitting there with, Andrew WK and the courtyard hounds and like lots and lots of people. The list is long, but it it's more of a. What we found is, as artists, sometimes you're just passing in the night, you know, like ships and you don't get to see each other and share though, the community is small.
You're still at your separate venues, you know, and you're separate studios. When we can find any ways to make the community more connect. Our artists working on songs together. Even if those just become memories, you know, me and, Ben Kweller one of my, love lovely man from, Austin, Texas. We wrote a song the other day, a couple of years back, sorry.
And the other day he said the other day, he said to me, man, I got to record that song. I wake up once a year, you know, and I'll sing it, I like it just as that, you know, if it's just that memory we have
together, that's okay with me.
Rae Leigh: I think it's beautiful. There's something very isolating. I don't know about you but, and maybe it's being a Christian kid and being a songwriter. I don't know if that's different, but I felt very isolated being in a small country town, being the pastor's kid and loving music. Like it was just my escapism into my own universe, but I.
Connect anyone else. And I felt so isolated and it wasn't until I moved to Sydney, I was at university and I started meeting other creative people. And I started to realize that I'm not weird. I'm just creative. And I need to be, I need to be around other creative people to almost accept who I am as a person and say this is okay to be creative.
And so I love that, you know, you talk about community and the camps and stuff. Cause it's a very isolating job, but being a songwriter or being an artist, usually we're on our own most of the time, unless we're on tour or doing shows and stuff where we usually on our own doing, doing our thing. So it's nice to be reminded that, you know, there are other people out there like that.
Zachary Hanson: you say that, I think it is really apparent to me. And I don't mean this in any negative way, but just all people are not creative. You, you kind of, my life has been lived in this space of visual arts and, and music and, and to a lesser extent, even making music, videos and documentaries about projects, you know, even that, that kind of medium of film and, and you realize.
It's really foreign to a lot of people. They know how to enjoy it. They know when the art speaks to them, but they really feel, they don't know how to tap into that part of their brain. And on top of that, you really, some people, they're very different creatives. You want to talk about our band, you know, Taylor, our piano player, and probably, you know, most associated with singing.
In his process is very he'll, he'll bring you ideas to complete, you know, I wrote this and I stopped so that we could complete it. Right. But Isaac, Isaac, our guitarist, you know, he he's much more experiential, so he didn't stop because he didn't want to complete it. He stopped because the muse kind of kept going down the street and he goes, man, I just, I kinda lost it.
Can you help me find it again? It's just, it's so different. And, you know, for me, I tend to find myself not interested until somebody goes, Hey, I lost it. Do you know where it is? And I go, oh, I'll find it for you. Kind of, kind of that the challenge part, there's a challenge. I kind of enjoy tapping into this, the surge, like a, you know, like a bloodhound, you're kind of tracking it down, trying to find the Senate.
Rae Leigh: I love that. It sounds like it is in that sense, very complimentary in the way that you guys all work together. And I think that's one of the reasons I love co-writing cause I'm a solo artist. I need to find other people who can do that. And I'm probably a little bit more like. Oh, I don't know.
Maybe it makes it your brothers because sometimes I'll get a certain distance and I'm like, no, this just needs to go to a co-write to be finished. And then other times I just get so lost in an idea that I'll write a million verses and be like, oh yeah, I don't know what I'm doing now. I just gotta, I need someone to help me write it in.
That's the beauty of working with other people in that creative center. I, I, it took me a long time to be aware that most people aren't creative or a lot of people aren't creative, you know, and don't have that left brain thing. I, you know, when you have a talent or natural skill, you kind of just think everyone can do it and it's, it's not special.
And I think it, it took me, I didn't do it as a kid. I was a bedroom warrior for a very long time. So, and he started singing when I was like publicly outside of church around 30 and. It took me that amount of time to realize that it was a gift in that, like you said, people can enjoy it and people can feel through music, but it doesn't mean they can create it.
And I realized that if it was something that helped me through a lot of stuff and I shared it, then other people can, you know, process stuff by listening to it. That was a gift. And then I felt like so guilty because all of a sudden I realized that this was something that I was keeping to myself. And, that was drive enough to get it up.
Zachary Hanson: Well, see you you're you illustrate something. I think that, that I have often taken for granted, which is that there were three of us. And so there was a built-in audience, right? We were in the same bedroom.
Right. And so even if we were bedroom warriors, there was two other bedroom warriors kind of going, oh. I think, you know, finding collaborators, even when it, it can be really hard when you're early in the process of learning how to write with people. But, but that's a really big deal. You know, we were lucky to write with, people like wile and man, you know, on our first record or Mark Hudson, who had written, you know, these legendary songs and, the case of mark, he had, he'd been in a band with his two brothers.
You know, he had spent here is kind of trying to figure out that dynamic and, to gain that experience, which will someday become maturity as early as possible is just this gift that
pays dividends your whole life.
Rae Leigh: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. And one thing I've, this is probably like almost 200 episodes of this podcast. So one thing I've learned from talking to so many songwriters is that every single person, I don't think there's one person that hasn't needed and not necessarily needed. They've had someone coming and go, you can do this.
You're good at this. You know, you've got this, keep going, you know, just someone to encourage them. And like, I didn't have that. I met my husband. My husband is my number one fan and encouraged her. And he has pushed me into some situations that I was so uncomfortable with, but it's, it's helped me to grow.
And I just never had that before. And that was a catalyst for me and, and talking to so many people. Like you're saying it's such a young age, you had your brothers there and you all kind of encouraged each other. And, it sounds like you had a very supportive and encouraging family as well. That makes a huge difference.
Zachary Hanson: Oh, yeah, it's undeniable. I mean, to have that, and you've got to look at our experience was, was so unique because, really our family came around us. Right. It was apparent that people were responding. And so when we got our first record deal, our dad quit his job just so that we could go make an album, you know, stuff like that.
Yeah, it does, it makes me think of, Taylor has a, almost 20 year old son, who just came back. He just came back from, an internship, a paid internship at a big corporate company. And it was extremely painful. Right. But also three months later, he's like, that was amazing. Right.
And you realize. You really can't avoid the pain, you know, because growth is so painful, but it's really, you just get to decide whether you do it really quickly, or you do it a little bit at a time. That's the only thing you get to decide, you know?
Rae Leigh: Yeah, just rip the bandaid off is my new theories. It just, just say yes and figure it out later. Okay. So I like to find out a little bit, cause I mean, you w 30 years you've been doing this, what would you say has been your biggest lesson? That's kind of been something that's always stuck with you in your career, in the music.
Zachary Hanson: Biggest lesson there's. I think there's a really unique balance between self-confidence and self destruction. And that's been something that has been, probably more aware to me, in the last few years where, I, I see now differently in our history that certain opportunities, just because we knew exactly what we wanted exactly who we wanted to do.
We probably missed out on some things because we weren't even interested. We weren't even interested in turning left or turning. Right. And I wouldn't change it. But as an adult in this stage, in my life, I'm much more conscious of the view, right. I'm much more conscious of like, as you're going down the highway towards what you want, kind of trying to see there might be an alternative path.
That'll still get me. That, you know, that I wasn't expecting. And that's really
that's really apparent to me
Rae Leigh: It's being open, right? Like open to opportunities
Zachary Hanson: well, and I
Rae Leigh: come up.
Zachary Hanson: well, part of it is our creative process too. So at this point in our, in our lives, like any one of us could make the next Hanson record. And it would be good and it would be Hansen. Right. And, and there's not, it's not a difference between, is it us or not? It's a difference of what version, you know, who gets to say what Hanson should sound like, because if any, one of us could write 20 more songs and produce them and do it, we're having to come together on all these.
It was kind of unique compromises of storytelling and direction and purpose. And none of them are wrong, you know, none of them are wrong. They're just someone else's
viewpoint.
Rae Leigh: I love that. It sounds like you guys have matured a lot in how to work in a team, which you don't. I wouldn't, I wouldn't take that for granted. That's something that, some people can take a really long time and how to learn, how to do, you know, you hear about these bands that are constantly. Going through Ben members because they just don't know how to work together.
And that, that is something that, you know, I really appreciate and respect and it's, amazing that you've, you've done that together. And I don't know if it being family has helped or made it, you think maybe more stressful, but,
yeah, I think it's very inspirational. So I think that you guys should pat yourselves on the back for.
Zachary Hanson: Uh,
Rae Leigh: Doing that. And, you know, still speaking to each other after such a long period of time and working together as well. If you could collaborate and I don't know if this is just a personal question or something that you guys have talked about as a band, but if you collaborate with anyone in the world that are alive, who would it be and why
Zachary Hanson: Oh, well, th there's there's probably a few songwriters in particular that would really be. Extremely valuable to me personally. And it's probably, I mean, Barry Gibbs is the only good brother left when, when Morris, passed away, that was a real loss for us. Cause we still, I think I'll aspire that maybe one day that, that three brother group and this three rather group will do something.
But particularly, I think of Paul Simon is one of my favorites. It's just what he does with lyrics and storytelling is so non-traditional and, It paints such an amazing picture. Even still the records, the last couple of he's made still at this point in his life, still have these gyms where you're like, I don't even know why you're still trying yet.
I'm so glad. I'm so glad you did. You know what I mean? Like you won you when you wrote them all and then you're like, and thank you for still doing it because I I'm still gaining value from, from your.
Rae Leigh: I, I appreciate it when people, you know, like you said, you you've, you've achieved more than most of us. You don't have to do it anymore. You've proved your. point. They're still doing it anyway. Sorry. It's just, Yeah. It's is one of those things where they're obviously doing it because that's who they are and that's what they love. And they're not doing it for anyone else. They're just doing it because that's their life.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. It's sad to me that no one it's, it's probably beautiful in other sense, like no one writes or sings the way he does. And so when he stops, there's a, there's a void, there's a void in music that has been filled by Paul Simon. Now for 50 years, of that, that certain kind of poetry mixed with. Pop music, right.
Mixed with incredibly catchy, but also so poignant and so playful. I love the playfulness. I think when people, so many artists, when they start to say something that's supposed to mean meaningful, like they're no longer smiling and he seems to be still winking, you know, he's still kind of.
Rae Leigh: it's cheeky.
Zachary Hanson: Is there still a little bit of like joy in the back there that, that even in his search for meaning he's smiling and I really need that in my life. And I think people probably, I hope they hear that. And the songs that I write.
Rae Leigh: That's beautiful. I actually agree with people when they say that you've just got to have fun. and the truth can be fun, you know, and life should be fun. It doesn't mean that there aren't serious, like really serious things that need to be addressed, but we can do it, you know, in way. We can do it in a way that, you know, like what's my, my, one of my favorite quotes is that life's too short to take too seriously.
And I've had my fair share of trauma and horrible experiences that would make anyone gasp and cry. But my biggest belief, and this isn't my quote. I heard it from someone else, but it's, you know, What happened to me, I am who I choose to be. And that's the mentality that we've just got to have to, to make the most of every moment, just because something happened in my past, I'm not going to let the memory or that trauma experience of that continue to affect my future.
And when I am triggered, it does come up. It'll deal with it as best they can. And then just keep going.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. I, I think it probably so much of that has to do with where do you end? You know, we all deal with negative. I mean every day where some level, you know, maybe it's on, it's a one on the scale, but it's still kind of metabolizing that it's like, do you, are you, are you, are you learning or are you following right?
Are you simply like, and I think if you're sharing, like the tears of grief, you know that that's not a bad thing. That's a, that's a good thing.
Rae Leigh: It's healing.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Tell me about your album. We've got red, green, blue. It's not fully out yet, but you've got a couple of singles out, including child at heart. Tell us about what this project means to you guys and, and what your goal is for it.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah.
so this project is kind of unique because, we are a band that's been together for 30 years and, and you're constantly looking for ways to deepen the story and connection that you have with people. At some point it was it's time to make another album. I think these days it's what can we do to teach people and share with people, something that makes us closer that makes them understand more, that that tells a bigger or a better story.
It's not just, we need to make a record. So this album we basically decided to do. As three solo projects. So it's 15 songs. It's five songs from each brother. And instead of writing them together and producing them together, we each just, we picked, you know, so I wrote, I wrote eight songs and decided on five out of them.
I, as a tailor, both wrote, I think they both wrote five. I don't know if Isaac had about 20 ideas. He settled on about, about five. And, it very much is Hansen because we can't not be Hansen. I mean, I'm Zach Hanson, you know, but, but you hear in it that even though we have all these similar influences and all this time together and all this shared experience when LA.
To your own devices. One brother turns left and one brother turns, right. And I think it's a really, really cool experiment. I don't know that we'll ever do this again, but I hope for our fans, it kind of allows them to look back at our catalog and hear it in a new way and hear where the songs came from a little bit differently. And oh, maybe that's more of a Taylor song. And maybe that, that style is more of an Isaac style.
Rae Leigh: Yep. Are you going to keep everyone guessing as to
who or what or
Zachary Hanson: uh, no, no, no. It's, it's called red, green, blue because, those colors are representative of, of each brother. So I'm blue, I've always been blue. And the five songs that I sing laid on are songs I wrote, by myself and, so it's kind of interesting because.
Taylor wrote all the songs by himself. But he kind of went at it where we all started together. He had us do basic tracks and then he took the whole record and went off, you know, and finished it himself away. And, and Isaac wrote almost every song is a co-write, with a friend, with the friend of some sort, you know,
Rae Leigh: See some of us just need that.
Zachary Hanson: And I, I wrote all the songs by myself, but I did the exact opposite.
I started by myself and brought everyone into the process in the second half, you know, to complete it. Like, I want to complete it with you. I want to, I want to build the whole of the boat and then we can paint the colors with your voices or your, you know, and it's just, it's very different. But I'm super proud of it. And I think, people will really enjoy it. Getting to become a, an Isaac fan or a Taylor fan, not, not just a Hanson fan.
Rae Leigh: Yup. Yup. People getting to know you a bit, a little bit more, and like you said, being an artist. Being vulnerable and showing that deeper side of you and you're all adults and parents now, and, you know, leave lived lives outside of your family home. You're going to go in different directions, like you said, with personality and everything like that.
So I'm interested to hear, hear them all, who, who wrote child at heart, because I've listened to that one a few times and I've watched the music video and it is sad.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah, so that it's so sad. It's very sad. I, so Taylor wrote that song and, that song, we've talked a lot about it. It's very much about that kind of coming of age moment. I think he, he has seven children and so he has one that's 19 all the way down to a one year. And I think he in his life has been experiencing this interesting mix of having to step into that role as a father of, of launching your children right there.
They're adults. Now having to find a path that they're not really under your wing, but you're still a guide. You know, your, your son's almost 20 right here.
He is a man. Right. And then down to that infant, right? A one-year-old who has no callus, no negative thoughts, just kind of experiencing the world. So, so pure.
And Taylor was a young dad, you know, he was 19 when he had his son. So he's, he's still a fairly young man and, and I think. When you combine all those things, you see him speaking in a really pure way about the reality of that job, of being a dad and trying to encourage your kids to go, Hey, you're gonna struggle, but you're you still have to be open to the world.
You still have to kind of wake up each day with an outlook that says it might be better than yesterday, even when you're going through hard times.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, you've just got to hold onto that hope and be optimistic day. Be joyful that have you heard of the, I dunno, there's like a sermon. I think I heard once about the difference between happiness and joy. Have you heard that one?
Zachary Hanson: I haven't, but I I'm sure that there is a lot of truth in that.
Rae Leigh: Just that, you know, you don't necessarily have to be happy to have joy and joy. Is that, that hope optimism. Future is going to be okay. Everything's going to work out. It's like trusting that. God will take care of you no matter what he knows what's going on. You know,
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. Joy comes from us a certain faith in, and your, your
Rae Leigh: think. Yeah. and that's, that's beautiful to hear that. Cause I have, you know, the three kids and they're still quite young. I am so scared of them turning into teenagers. This is like one of my biggest genuine fears of having teenage children. Because I know that I can't control them. I can't protect them from the world and everything they're going to experience.
That's a beautiful song and message to say, like just going to keep going and you don't run away from your pay. Yeah.
it's a challenge in each time we're challenged with pain we choose, we can choose to grow. And my biggest belief is that children just need to be loved and feel safe. And unfortunately not all children are protected and kept all loved, in all worlds, not just Western worlds, but,
Zachary Hanson: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: um,
Zachary Hanson: you that that's an ultimate truth. Okay.
Rae Leigh: But that's beautiful. I like the song even more now. So thank you for helping me understand. So what are you guys like once the album's released? You're going to go on tour. What, what's the plan for the next
Zachary Hanson: Yeah. We start a world tour in June. We don't have our Australian dates announced yet, but we'll do, we have about 80
Rae Leigh: sure Brisbane's on
Zachary Hanson: Yeah, we have about 80 shows announced and, Australia is going to be later in the year. It'll just be announced more than may, probably when the album comes out. But definitely, going all over the place.
This is, this will end up being probably one of the busiest touring years ever sort of that catch-up post COVID where you're, you know, you've been planning and planning and planning and planning. Somebody finally pulls the trigger on the starter gun and you get to start
racing.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. So one finally lips you in pass the borders.
Zachary Hanson: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: so did you get, did you guys write this during lockdown? Was this like a lockdown project or?
Zachary Hanson: well, so what's interesting is we've written two records during this album. We released a record last year called against the world, which honestly was written before COVID really began. But in so many ways it felt like a record written about that because so many of the songs were about.
Persevering and overcoming. There's a song on that album called one, which really probably was written more about the brothers. You know, we, we go through our own cycles of fighting and struggling and looking for a shared direction. And so it, that song was talking about, you know, we should be one, we should, we should put down these differences, like are our.
Rae Leigh: Wow.
Zachary Hanson: Our pride sometimes will allow us to, to kind of shed blood, you know, say the things that, that leave permanent scars because we know what's right. And, and that's never
right. You know, it's never right to shed blood for your pride. You know, it's never right to, to, to go after people cause you're right. And this record.
It was still written that way, but, but we've been really blessed that we live in Oklahoma and really for, for more than a year, Oklahoma has been, kind of back to normal. We haven't been able to tour throughout the U S but there haven't really been, restrictions or masks or things like that.
Rae Leigh: okay. So you've been able to get together and work on the project.
Zachary Hanson: I think what, what you hear in this. And this record is probably that kind of for, at least for my part, some of that, disbelief where you're kind of, you're, you're living as, as the world is normal yet, yet everything around you is telling you, it's not normal, it's not normal, it's not safe. And you kind of, you hear in some of the songs, that kind of an angst of like, Hey, I'm brave enough.
I'm strong enough. Let me, let me choose. You know, it's time to let me choose. There was a time for caution, and now there's a time for, for me, for me to be in control, you know,
Rae Leigh: Hmm. Yeah, I like that. Cool. So out of the whole album that isn't fully released just yet, is there someone there that is your favorite, maybe one that you wrote or.
Zachary Hanson: Two songs, come to mind, just because of the way they were with. There's a song called where I belong. And it's a song that I started writing probably about five years ago and I just stopped because, it felt kind of special and I didn't know what was going to be the right way to, to write it.
It was very much a melody, but not a lyric. And. I'm sure you've experienced this with was, you know, co-write not, co-write even within a band. Some songs are, Hey, maybe this isn't a co-write maybe I'm not going to bring this to the other guys. And, and finally, when this project came around and it was, Hey, you just write whatever you're going to write for your five songs.
I kind of opened it up. I said, okay, maybe this is the moment for it. And I wrote it and I wrote it and I didn't write the lyric that I. I wrote a safe lyric and, our friend Davi Garza, who, who co-produced this record, he just walked up to me and said, are you pulling some punch? Like, are you like, aren't you not saying something?
And it was a really, really powerful moment for me to just say, Hey, don't, don't be afraid to just write that feeling as it is from you. And the second song, which is actually the first time. Was, it's called don't let me down. I had written a bunch of songs and I thought I was done. And Daveed had said, man, I just, I love there's a song called bad.
He said, I love bad. And I wish there was something that went with it. Like that sounded like a brother to it.
And I love that kind of challenge. And so that night, you know, at about two in the morning, I wrote the song called don't, let me down anyway. I mean, it's a song to myself, right? I'm sitting in my hotel room, you know, next to the studio and I'm going Zack, don't let yourself down, write a great song, write a song you're proud of.
Right. And of course the, the fun part about it is it's a message everybody needs to hear, but it's the thing I needed to hear, to push myself to go, like, what does it take to write one?
Rae Leigh: I love that that's really good advice. And I think I can relate to everything you just said about say the feeling how it's meant, you know, don't be safe. Art is not a place to be safe. I think that's a normal thing as well, though, for any songwriter, listen. That's something. I think everyone goes through with all this emotion might be too much,
Zachary Hanson: Correct? Correct.
Rae Leigh: but the reality is we're all human and we all feel these things.
And maybe some of us feel things deeper because we allow ourselves to, but that doesn't mean that that can't be shared because emotions and feelings, they're not bad things. They're, they're beautiful things that make us who we are. So I love that you said that and that you can, you know, you'd taken on the challenge of.
Told you to, you know, write extra songs and stuff. I think that's, it says a lot about your personality and who you are as a person. I respect that. That's good. Cool. I think I've asked all the questions I want to ask. Is there anything else you would like to say, before we end this podcast, it's
Zachary Hanson: Oh, no, no,
Rae Leigh: You're good.
Zachary Hanson: this is what, this is wonderful. Yeah. Good conversation. I love it's so rare that, as an artist, you ended up actually talking about something meaningful. You know, we spend every day. Writing songs trying to connect at the heart and then you go do these interviews and, they ask you, you know, do you think your kids will join a band? Or, you know, do you, do you hate singing this song? Or what's your craziest fan story? Right? So,
Rae Leigh: sorry, I didn't ask you any of those
Zachary Hanson: I am, I am so grateful that you did not ask any of those questions because. Much much more fun to just talk about the meaning of music and how it comes about.
Rae Leigh: Well, that's, what's important to me. I hope that I get to do this for the next 30, 40 years of my life. I love speaking to other people who have been able to continue doing it and haven't given up when it got a little bit too hard, because. That, that this is who I am, and I get to keep doing it for the rest of my life too.
And yeah, you're very inspirational. So thank you very much. And being a parent as well, and continuing with your passion and love, just, I respect that a lot, cause I know how much harder it can be, but I mean, I don't, I don't know about.
you, but I do it for my kids. I'm like, if I want to tell my kids that they can be and do whatever they want, I kind of have to do the same thing. I don't want to be a hypocrite. So, you know,
Zachary Hanson: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Children. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. I'm going to turn into my, my dad's daughter if I keep talking much more, but thank you very much for joining me, Zach. I've really enjoyed this conversation and I look forward to sharing it with everyone at Songwriter Trysts
