#179 Josh Simons
Josh Simons is the CEO and co-founder of Vampr, the world’s largest and most active social-professional network for musicians (often dubbed the “LinkedIn for creatives”). Recognised by Fast Company as one of the Most Innovative Companies in 2022, Vampr is home to over one million users, and active in every country on the planet. The music startup has helped fledgling musicians broker over 7 million connections worldwide. Vampr offers a free solution for young musicians, built by a sympathetic founding team of established musicians with Josh’s co-founder, Baz Palmer, best known as the lead guitarist for seminal hall-of-fame rock band, Hunters & Collectors. Simons has grown Vampr into a multi-award winning platform, including a most prestigious nod from Apple with an inclusion in their Best of the Year list. Over four funding rounds the company has raised $3.2M from VC, the crowd and music industry angels. Prior to running Vampr, Josh Simons spent the better part of a decade as a successful artist, songwriter & producer. His artist project Buchanan enjoyed multi-million streams & chart impressions worldwide. They retired from the live circuit following a sold-out arena tour opening for Keith Urban & Carrie Underwood. As a producer and songwriter, Simons has shared credits with Travis Scott, Troye Sivan and Kanye West to name a few. In April 2020 Simons was named in The Music Network’s 30 Under 30 List in addition to being voted Reader’s Choice. Simons holds a Bachelor of Business from Swinburne University.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: So welcome to us somewhere to tryst with Josh Simons. How are you doing.
Josh Simons: I'm good. I'm good. It's nice to speak to another Australian voice because I've been living in America now for six years. And I haven't been back to Australia since the start of COVID. So this is nice and refreshing. Yeah,
Rae Leigh: well, welcome home in a sense of podcasting. All right. I like to start this podcast by purely you getting to introduce yourself to us. Tell us who are you and where do you come from?
Josh Simons: Yes. My name is Josh. I am the CEO of a social professional network for musicians called Vampyr. prior to that, I was in a band called Buchanan, which sort of started in Melbourne and we had a great run on, on triple J that lasted.
Five years. Uh, and that ultimately led me to do a lot of songwriting All over the world.
So the, even though the artists project, I sort of retired that a few years ago now. The songwriting stuff continues. It's kind of given me, everything that I have in my life now. So yeah. I mean, we can get into any of those, those things that you'd like to, but yeah. I mean, we could definitely look back into those artists years of touring and riding with other bands and doing the triple J thing.
Or we could get into the songwriting now with, you know, good music and stuff like that.
Rae Leigh: Well, I mean, I have to ask is, is the Buchanan project anything related to column B cannon?
Josh Simons: No, actually the origin of the name was, we were going to call the project north. And it's funny, I haven't thought about this in literally years. Cause we, this all happened in 2009, which is a long time ago now. But north wasn't like, universally loved by everyone in the group. And there was another band in the U S that was like India and also called north.
So there was problems. And then I asked my mum, this is the vaguest origin story, but I asked my mom what she would call it. And she said, well when I was a kid, me And my sister wanted to form a band called the Buchanans. And I just liked that single word. We all, we always wanted a strong word that had no sound connotation, like.
Quote a band, the snowy mountains, like you'd have an idea of what the music might sound like. Right. Cause it's
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Josh Simons: but we wanted To choose a word that would have no preconceptions about what that sound might be. And it gave us an opportunity to create something. And so that was why we went with
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Okay. All right. Interesting. Okay. So let's just start with telling me, like, where
did music start for you? What was your inspirations? Why did you get into.
Josh Simons: Yeah. So my, my whole family, uh, has been like involved in the music industry in various ways. Like my granddad started a publishing company in England, in like the forties, uh, that was bought by universal pictures and is now universal music publishing group. So that was. And he, and he stayed there as like the chairman of the company until he passed away in 2000.
So he spent his whole life as a top, top publisher. And he was like, Tom Jones, his personal manager and things like that. And then my dad followed suit. And so he did some publishing for people like Paul McCartney. And I mean, that, was his biggest, but like Michael Nyman, maxi priest. So any, a lot of different, uh, across, like he did classical music, he did modern music.
So like I definitely. Had music in the household from a very, very young age. And, and our parents were in the, you know, set on introducing us to all the classics for as soon as we could speak, you know, like Diana Ross and the beetle all that kind of stuff. So we just always had music in the house.
And I think I knew as far back as I can remember that I wanted to perform. And also, right. I always understood that those two things were separate. And that's what I actually love about artists is. artists have to learn to be good at both, and they are completely separate skillsets. Like you have incredible.
Yeah. Like there's some incredible writers that couldn't perform to say their life. And there's some incredible performance who can't write. So, you know, being able to master both was always like the challenge and the dream and.
Rae Leigh: Um,
Josh Simons: and. that's, I guess that's the origin story. But I wasn't playing. I mean, it's funny how I've started.
My band is a really interesting story cause I was out of fresh out of school
And uh, I was managing other projects.
Like I had a few friends that were incredibly talented and they would write these incredible songs and they'd put on pretty good shows. And, but they would never allow me to
explore the commerciality of it.
They were like indie to and it was tough because it's like well, I'm a manager, I'm only getting paid if you're getting paid. And I think we can get this on some TV shows and they just wouldn't go for it. So I actually started my band out of frustration of what the two bands I was
managing weren't doing for me.
And that's literally how my band started. I was like, well, screw it. I'm going to, I'm going to do it instead. Um,
and six months later we were on the radio.
It's quite a crazy story.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, well done. And to have like, To grow up with the knowledge that, you know, you need to be a songwriter and a performer, and that all these different things that are completely separate actually need to mix together in the most perfect way to make an act what it is. That's, that's really not something that I think, you know, even just doing like music lessons at school, or if you're learning an instrumental, you learning to sing.
No one was going to sit there and go, oh, you need to have them all together. You know, like that's not a part of, I've never went to a music teacher anyway, that was like, you need this, I
just did acting. And I did drama and I did music
Josh Simons: right, right, right,
Rae Leigh: you know, just simply by exposure to, you know, TV
and going to musicals and stuff, you're like, yeah, they kind of go together guys.
Josh Simons: They certainly are complimentary. Yes.
Rae Leigh: definitely, uh, and maybe it's different in the states. For my grandparents, small country town in Victoria. I, no one ever seemed to talk about them or to each other. It was almost like they were in competition with each other. It's like dancing is better than acting and acting is better than singing And
singing's better than doing a musical instrument.
And it's like, actually,
Josh Simons: Well, it's interesting. You said I've actually, because if you look at like how a lot of. artists break here. It's often through the acting and drama route, like think about all those Disney stars
that break like Olivia Rodriguez,
one of them, right? Ariana Grande day. Justin Timberlake.
just, you could keep naming them all day long if you stop to think about it But so many come from the acting side and it, I think it does make sense because you've got to have the looks and you got to have the charisma and the ability to remember lines. I
mean, that's kind of part of an artist's job in some
ways. I mean, that's, that's a blue blanket statements
on people. It's not about that at all, but certainly in the pop world where I sort of tend to live a bit more it is. Those elements are crucial. So it does make sense that.
they would come from that drama
Rae Leigh: commercial side and being an artist. I mean, for me, remembering lyrics is something. It kind of happens naturally now, but I know it never, it didn't always, and that's something that you have to work on and it is something that you learn. And I, cause I do acting as well. I was like, this is brilliant for acting because I can literally like memorize things pretty quickly, like give me a day and I'll, I've got this.
And I think that is something that Yeah.
bringing to the table is like, that is a unique skill
that is learned, but I don't think a lot of people put effort into that.
Josh Simons: not at all until they, until they have to. And I, I, I I'll never forget. That was my third show. We made the biggest mistake, my band, because the first two, we, the first tour we did, this is like lessons for people listening. We didn't tour until we had already had some radio and chart success. And so.
We then made the stupid decision to invite every ANR person in the world to our first show. And, you know, first show is going to be bad because you've not, you've never, you've never blocked out. like now I can work at an arena fine. But when you're playing your first show in front of even just 200 people, you don't know what you're doing.
You might think you have a good idea. And even with the best intentions you've got to make some mistakes. And so anyway, that cost us a few months in a negotiation. But yeah, it was apparent parents in the, after that. And the reason I actually originally was going to tell the story is my manager and best friend at the time was film, filmed the show and we watched it back.
He made me watch it back in front of the band and it was painful to watch, but it was also the best thing he ever. Because it was so obvious where I needed to improve. Like I was able to correct my, like my body posture. I was able to correct how I held the guitar. I was able to correct the blocking and various songs, and we started to treat it more like a production from that point on.
Now there are some rock bands that hate that philosophy in like every show to be completely different, different set list, different blocking, a bit more spontaneity. I'm much more in the camp of treat it. Like it's a production and.
Rae Leigh: Hm.
Josh Simons: You then went very much. Yeah, we did very much good.
that And I don't mean like laying choreograph, like put my foot up on the speaker here and get down on my knees there.
None of that, crap. I mean, Like you know, for this, for this song, it's a bit more intimate. we might face this side of the stage a bit more, and then we might,
you know, introduce some, you know, uh, like a bass drum that's upright for this song and the drummer can come around. And so we just sort of experimented a little bit with making it more of a
show. And it was great.
Like it was, it certainly we were any, any reviews we had.
They always pointed that out, that it was clear that we'd put thought into that. And I liked that.
Rae Leigh: I like, that as well. I actually appreciate that when I'm watching someone present their music. It's nice to see that they've put some thought into the way that.
they are presenting it in an entertaining format. so that. I guess you're, you're constantly engaging with the audience. Like it's a conversation, even if we are the listener.
It's nice to feel like I've actually like as the watcher, you know, the person in the audience, it's nice to think that the person on stage has considered potentially me as the audience as to how I feel while I'm watching
you, even, we feel having to change guitars. What are you going to, how are you going to do that
Josh Simons: Yeah, we would, we would make an event out of that. We would make an event out of like we would,
there's one, we had this one somewhere. The, the first minute is acoustic. And then when the drums come in, everything comes in the scene, it just explodes. And it was a real moment. And we use that as the moment to switch guitars.
So the big explosion happens and I rip my guitar off, hand it to the tech and I throw on the electric guitar and away we go and it sort of, it makes it a real spectacle and it was everyone's favorite part of the set. So, yeah,
Rae Leigh: see, and yeah, so that's really fun. well, done for thinking of all that. And obviously you've got generations of experience and I feel like you probably didn't even have much of a choice. It
was just this life was thrust upon you,
Josh Simons: well, not well, not to be like a Debbie
downer, but
my both my dad and my granddad died before I was 10. So I actually never, they, they never really
pushed this on me because I
was too young. Like I think
Rae Leigh: Um,
Josh Simons: Yeah, I think I'd started piano lessons. My dad died when I was two and my granddad died when I was
10. I think I started piano lessons when I was nine. So they probably didn't even know that
I was going to go and do all this. I certainly
didn't have them to consult. I mean, cause a lot of people always thought because of my history of the people who knew me because of my family history, they're like, oh, you're going
to have the easiest run.
But the truth is I, had zero help. Like literally zero. my mum bless her. I love her, but she doesn't have any contacts in the industry. And. I was just starting out from scratch the same way that anyone listening to this is literally from complete ground up. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: I think that's something that a lot of people it is, it's so easy to make assumptions about people. Like you're absolutely right. Especially like, I mean, I mean, even Garth Brooks, for example, his daughter is. Trying to be a musician. And I remember watching his documentary and they were like, unfortunately, no one in the industry will ever respect or expect her. to get anywhere without sort of, I
guess the help of him. And I mean, I mean, if I, if my dad was Garth Brooks, heck year, I'd use that as if you're like, Hey dad hooked me up. And I would
expect that, you know, you should use
what you've got and if you've got that blessing and ability to
do that, that's fine. It doesn't mean you don't have to work just as hard as everyone else though.
Like you still got to put in the work. If you're a spoiled brat, people don't want to
walk, work with people like that anyway. So like it's still an industry.
Josh Simons: Totally. And it's a small industry and people always forget how small it is, especially
at the top. It's very small. And you know, I'm not going to name any names, but I've certainly met daughters of famous Australian
singers And, performers
that are brats and their career could have been huge because they are a talent, but they were a talented brat.
And it didn't, it didn't work out so well, like, you know, it's worked out and probably okay. But that's nowhere near what I sure they had ambitious. Four. So, yeah, there's I mean, I did another podcast the other day with someone from the voice of America and we were just talking about attitude and how it doesn't really matter what stage of your career, if you're not if you're not turning up with the right attitude. and if you don't have the ability to listen and learn you're going to have a hard time in this industry. Uh it's just, Yeah.
Rae Leigh: It's no space for ego. And you've always got to be kind and humble no matter who you are or what you've done or what you've got through. Every we all go through hard
times and there's just no space to not be kind and compassionate to one another.
Josh Simons: yeah. And empathy like trying to, because songwriting is a very vulnerable thing. I think people always forget like when, especially songwriting, when you're at the stage where you've got a producer, maybe an engineer in the room as well, because when you're at that point and I think everyone learns his lesson the hard way, at least one.
But there's a tendency for everyone to sort of jump in with their idea before someone's gotten to fully explore if their idea has validity first and like what I've seen happen in sessions again earlier in my earlier days is someone will have an idea. You're like, ah, Yeah. I'd I'd really think they're wrong.
Like they're just wrong. This isn't the right chord. It's not the right sound. But what wisdom and experience has taught me, is it no, they've got a reason why they're exploring this. Just shut up sometimes and let them see it through. And if it's got merit after they've
executed it great, we all win because we all
want the best outcome for the song. or if it sucks after you've, given it a chance, at least you've given it a chance they'll respect you, the room will be friendlier and warmer for it. So
yeah, I don't know. That's just a studio etiquette
thing that in fact vamp is launching an academy soon. and.
one of the
courses that we'll be doing sort of like a songwriting, one-on-one thing, but one of the modules will be probably called.
Like songwriting And studio, etiquette, which is going to cover this as told by professionals that do this for a living, because it's, so undervalued, but it's so important.
Rae Leigh: It's so, yeah, it is one of those things that like, you can see it. And I think everyone goes through, I think everyone's been through this where you finally achieving a goal, whether you're on stage with a particular idol or you've, you've done something, we got a radio play and he gets so excited that it kind of goes to your head a little bit and.
And you kind of get like verbal diarrhea and he just, you know, like, and you, you can kind of run away with you and I've, I've experienced so many people like that, and it can be so hard in those moments to stay humble. And it's like, maybe you're in a studio, you're working with some people and you, you know, you're just really excited that you've achieved a goal.
And it's, it's also okay for people to correct you and be humbled in those moments. And in my experience, the
best thing is to do just like, yep, you're right. Let's bring it back down. Let's let's just keep, let's just keep going. And, I, I always appreciate honesty and people when they're, when they've got the courage to correct me or offer critical advice, always be a student.
This is something that. Pat Patterson said, and just always be open to people. People's criticism in the sense of it's going to be not projection of their own beliefs, but a matter of they want the best for you and they want you to get better. Like your manager, making you watch your performance. I appreciate that.
Like it, that is hard to do, especially your first few shows. You know, it is about refining, but if you don't go back and look at yourself and reflect you can't grow. And I, and I've had that.
And when I, when I had my first music video, I remember asking people for feedback, like random people on these track groups and forums and stuff.
And I remember one particular comment where someone was like, well, this is obviously finished. Why would you want feedback? Like, you know, it's done, it's released it's out there. Why do you want feedback on something that's
finished? And it's like, because I'm going to do more music, music, videos, I'm going to do more songs.
I
Josh Simons: yeah. Cause, cause this is my last month 80.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, it's my first one. It's not my last one. Like I I'm going to do more and I want to, I want it to be better and I can only get better if I have feedback. So yeah, I think never being afraid of getting feedback is really important. I want to know. How old were you when, when you first started writing songs, you said you started playing piano around nine.
When was the songwriting component
Josh Simons: same same year. I wrote a song called in the morning and, it's really bad, but, it's a. I used no, w I think we had like a windows 95 computer or windows 98 or something. And it had like a sound recorder tool, but I
had, I had bought a mini keyboard that had like an eight track sequencer.
And so I bought up a drum track, a bass guitar.
I sort of, I dunno how I learned this by the way, but I kind of knew that it needed a bass sound. So it had a bass guitar and I played the root note on the bass and then sort of vamped with piano chords at the top, and then added a xylophone. And I think those are like the four tracks or something. And I fed that into the computer sound card and then had my, my stepdad's, headset that he would do like Skype or it wasn't Skype back then, whatever the hell it was.
But,
we had a headset and I sung into that and I don't know how, because this wasn't designed for recording music. I sort of fed it into the wave recorder and. Those stems and that Martha, the Nakota master back then, But you know, I've got that file. And then, and then I sort of, I am to the up and I would write lots, like hundreds of
little, I guess what I would now call demos.
I didn't know what to
call them back then. It was idea one idea to idea three. But I didn't finish another song for about three more years.
And then from there on out, it was just, I was always right. But I didn't, I didn't think, I didn't realize what I was doing. As I said, like, I wasn't planning on being a writer. I
wasn't even planning on being in a band.
Like I looked up to artists and
writers, but as I said, I was
managing, when I first came out of school, I wasn't even thinking about being, being the talent. But then it was, yeah, but it was, it's now obvious in hindsight that, oh, that was always where I was going.
Rae Leigh: But music was your passion that you pursued. And, I think we're probably about the same age and for me, music wasn't even a career option. Like it just wasn't even within my vicinity of belief systems, like I was going to be a doctor. I went to the Trobe university. I did my undergrad. But at the same time I've I was writing
songs all the time and every time I had an exam, I'd write 10 songs because it relaxed me.
Josh Simons: yeah.
Rae Leigh: That was the sole purpose of music in my life was to relax and
keep me calm because I was a stress head. And so like,
Josh Simons: That's so interesting. I've never said this, like in any podcast or interview, but,
so I had like a, I wouldn't call it a mental breakdown, but I had a really tough patch about five years ago. I think it was like 2017. And, and like a lot of things around me was sort of crumbling very quickly. And, I anyway, it was very, very stressful period.
And. I've read. I, hadn't
written for about a year, just because I'd moved to America and things were mental. And I was running a
company with lots of employees, blah, blah, blah. But I had all the equipment
it's just, wasn't being used. and during that, the peak of that stress, I started writing again. and I swear, like I wouldn't be as dramatic to say as it saved my wife, but it actually, over several months, it brought me back down to a state of much more calmness, like tranquility. Mental stability. So a songwriting is just, cause you said, you know, it calms you down, but I've never actually spoken to anyone else about that side of it.
Rae Leigh: Well, I am dramatic. I, in literally in the intro of every single podcast, I say
music saved my life.
Josh Simons: right. Okay, cool.
Rae Leigh: But, you know, I come from an incredibly horrific childhood, unfortunately, and I've since having children I've done over 10 years worth of therapy and I've had many, many different therapists and I didn't get it until recently, but every single therapist told
me that music saved mine.
Like, they just, they hear my story, they see how important music they, they saw everyone in my life, even my school report
cards as a kid also that I love music and that would sing. And that was my best subject, but I didn't see it.
And now I'm like, how could I not see if everyone in my life saw how important it was to me
until recently where I go.
whoa, like, Yeah, I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah.
Josh Simons: Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's the universal language as cliche as it sounds. And it, it does something special that I don't know that there's any other art form, at least for me that, has the ability to change my mood so quickly. It's so powerful
Rae Leigh: is let it go.
Josh Simons: but it, oh, oh God,
it took me a second.
Rae Leigh: I I've had, I've had the worst moments in my husband will come in and he's like, sing it. I know he makes me sing this song and I can't help, but smile. and it's, it's so funny, but it's true. It
really, really can change your whole body And the way you feel, instantly without antidepressants, you
Josh Simons: it can stop perspiration. It can remove anxiety. It can allow you to hone in on, on a feeling and let it Alma.
Incredibly powerful. I've got a question for you when you're
down or feeling depressed or whatever. Do you sometimes, like there's two camps of people, there's people who will put on
happy music to try and change their frame of mind or there's people who will put on sad music and sort of, as I said before, let it alchemize and really hone in on that emotion until hopefully it just dissipates. Which, which side do you sit on?
Rae Leigh: I probably. I prefer to write and like a lot of the music that I've like for the first year and a bit of Mike, me releasing music, it was all songs that were never meant to be heard by anyone. And they were all fairly depressing, but at the same time, I'm a very optimistic, hopeful person. So like one of my first hit song was called find a better day.
And it was all about being suicidal essentially. But that music in that song was just going to keep me going. It didn't feel like there
was anything else and it's a very upbeat, positive song.
Josh Simons: Yeah, actually Buchanan's music was like that a
bit in that
we often, the subject matter is dark and twisted as, as anything. And, but the music's like Jangli indie pop
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Josh Simons: It's like the pumped up kicks thing. Isn't it like that a school shooting, but it's, everyone's like, you know, hands in the air at festivals, like.
Rae Leigh: But it's, it's funny. Cause it works isn't it it's like it. It's almost like you're allowed to get those horrific,
dark, deep emotions out if we put it to a happy chain
Josh Simons: Yeah. Well, it makes it more bearable.
Rae Leigh: human. Yeah. And it makes it more bearable and same thing with like comedy and humor. And there's so many different ways as artists, we can
mix the emotions of. Different feelings to, you know, make it really complimentary. It's like a cocktail, you know, a bit of sweet and a bit of sour and a bit of sugar,
you get that perfect
balance and it makes it palatable
and enjoyable.
Josh Simons: Well put one
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Thank you. I mean, I just, I just pulled that one out of thin air, but anyway,
Josh Simons: Yeah, it works. It works
Rae Leigh: tell me what happened.
So how did you end up in the states? What took you from, from be cannon being in Melbourne 2009 to being where you are now?
Josh Simons: an airplane.
Rae Leigh: Yep. Wow. I thought you might've swam or something.
Are you a dead? I don't know. That was a great
dad. Joke dad in training.
Josh Simons: I know. Oh God. No, uh, what took me there? That's a good question. So the band was doing like pretty well in Australia, as I said you know, triple J Let's I think we did eight national tours. They got progressively bigger TV, all that kind of crap. And I was, you can possibly hear my voice.
I'm actually English. I was born in England. And so I had jewel citizenship and I was like, well, if I'm able to do this level of success in Australia, what would I be able to do in a larger market? So logically I packed my bags and headed to London who boy. Is that, often a mistake. And I see it now.
I think so not, not the place. London fantastic is one of the best long capitals in the world. But I mean, Australians thinking I'll go to London to better, like to why not, what I'm doing in Australia is just a rookie air. It's like a, in a, in, in business world, you'll often hear pitches where people go, if we can capture just 1% of the audience will be a millionaires.
It doesn't work like that. And this is, this is why I started Vampyr was cause I got to London. Oh crap. I don't have a team. I don't have my bandmates. I don't have an agent here. I'm effectively starting from scratch. I apologize. There's an ambulance in the background.
Rae Leigh: That's what I've got thunder been
going. So I'll just edit
Josh Simons: Okay, cool.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Josh Simons: I'll start that again.
Yeah. So anyway, I was in, so I got to London, I got. I don't have like a team. I don't have agent, I don't have my bandmates. I don't really know how the politics of just the scene work here because how the scene works is super important. Especially as we were saying at the top, like the industry is small and so you need to know how to navigate, that's the scene and every country is seeing this nuance anyway.
Uh, it took me awhile. Oh you can't just turn it. It's not like a tap that you can just turn on and say, okay, I'm going to do the exact same thing in Melbourne and take it here. So, it didn't happen for me there, although a couple of incredibly consequential things did and we'll get into that in a sec.
I sort of grinded away for about 12 months. During that time I got cancer, I beat it, but it was, and it wasn't life-threatening, but it was, it was unknown for a while, whether it was or not. And so it was a stressful 12 months. I was in a new city. It was with a new girlfriend and dealing with the health stuff.
And I also wasn't able to do with the band, what I wanted to do.
that time, I'd sort of turned to writing and less of the artists project. And I started writing for other people and I applied for a song hubs, which is an opera initiative, to connect songwriters around the world, and put you in rooms with people.
And I happened to be put in a room with a boy called Troy savant, who is now very well known. At that time, he was well known in the YouTube world. Apparently I'm, I'm not on social media. I don't watch YouTube as, I don't know. I don't even have tick-tock so I know how it all works, but I don't do it. So it didn't phase me that this kid was apparently quite well known in YouTube land, but he had never, he had never released a song at this point.
He's since put out two albums that have gone number one. So I was writing a song with him and then I didn't hear that song, honestly, for probably another couple of years. it was at that point that Vampyr was, had been fully in that next two years of AMPA was conceived of and developed and about to go live to the public.
And we always knew that we were going to do a launch in north America. And then we got invited to do a sort of semi launch in Needham, in France. So me and my business partner as Palmer, who's the songwriter for hunters and collectors and the lead guitarist. We jumped on a plane. We went to meet him.
We. And officially launched Vampyr and then at meta, sorry.
at London on the way to New York, at PRA said, can you meet today and with the CEO of universal as well? I said, okay, sure. Of course. I had no idea what it was about. And they said, you remember that song you wrote a couple of years ago? I said, Yeah.
And they said, well, it's going to be the voice winners single, for this year is the voice in Australia. And I said, Oh, shit. Okay. And then the same day, I got a phone call from my agent in Australia who hadn't spoken to also in a couple of years. And he said, Keith ever wants you to open up for him?
In summer in Australia on his, his stadium tour. And I was like, What the hell is going on? So it was a very, it was crazy 24 hours, like probably the most exciting in my life by far. Like I I've probably achieved the bigger things since then, but that, that was a real turning point in my life. , anyway, so, in some way, between England and New York and just trying to process it all, we had to just, stage a last minute photo shoot to get some fresh photos for the tour and all this stuff that's happening.
Suddenly I realized I have to get in shape again because I haven't been performing for a while. And, and then on the email thread where we were just signing off on splits for the song and contracts and all that kind of stuff, there were a whole bunch of us managers and I'm was of course just in the U S so.
This is perfect. I can ask these guys if they have any clients that I might be able to song write with. And I, so I sent this email reply kind of bit cheeky in some ways, in hindsight, you know, the CEO of universal and a whole bunch of famous artists managers. and one of them said, yeah, my, my, one of my. Producers is a guy called Anthony and I was like I know who that is. Kanye is main engineer and I was like, he's like, do you want to work with him? And I was like, yeah. And so they, they set
me up the next day to go to what I didn't know, at the time was Kanye
west studio. And I wrote a song for travis Scott that day that came out in about a year. So it all happened wildly fast. and then I met my wife about a week after that my now wife, about a week after that we ended up getting married in Vegas about. six months after that. and
Rae Leigh: Oh,
Josh Simons: now we, yeah, yeah, we did it. and, we had all of them. Well, all of my family and friends come out from Australia and hers from Hawaii were beautiful.
But, anyway, so yes, that's, that's how I got to America, from being an abandoned Melbourne, quite a journey,
Rae Leigh: What a journey though? Like just, I mean, Yeah.
just starting off as a manager and like full circle, you know, just going out there and seeing problems. Like you're obviously a real entrepreneur and problem solver just by doing things and seeing, like, seeing the big picture and seeing like the gaps that are missing is that kind of, and that you're saying that's sort of how Vampyr came about.
I want to know, like, what's, what's your real core vision and mission behind Vampyr and, and
where it's going to go and what it's going to do for this music into.
Josh Simons: Yeah.
Well, that's another great question. I mean, the truth is, I mean, this sincerely when Barry and I first made Vampyr, we said to ourselves quite earnestly, if this is responsible for even one. Song original composition that, you know, someone gets to release, then we've kind of done our job and it actually didn't take very long to hit that goal.
So in fact, the numbers are quite amazing. So the apps helped
7 million connections happen around the world, between sort of artists and songwriters and producers, et cetera. From that 7 million connections, 220,000 commercial releases, 60, uh, I want to get the number right?
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Josh Simons: $116 million in royalties last year, 64 billion streams. So we've been responsible for a lot of you know, when I say responsible, obviously we're not writing the songs with them, but I mean, we've helped.
Rae Leigh: connecting the people.
Josh Simons: Correct. Exactly. And we always see Vampyr is step one. So
if you think about almost anything in life, I did a TEDx talk on this, but I didn't like it. So I asked them to take it down.
Honestly the run through there, one through is great. And then, and then we did the recording, but before the recording that the producer comes up to me and she's like, I really liked to your speech. I'd been practicing for months And she's like, I really liked your speech, but I feel like. If you move this section here to there and did it.
And I detested the notes,
but I, I talked with my team and everyone's like, you know, you should probably just follow the notes. She's done this before. She knows what she's talking about. So I went in on the actual recording and I did a speech that I'd never practiced effectively because I, had reshuffled it all and it just sucked.
But the whole point of this page anyway, was about it all starts with connection. This was before I was even thinking about. and, that's one of our catchphrases, but everything you do in life, except for breathing and masturbating is literally a part of a supply chain that involves hundreds of people, like even going to the toilet and wiping your butt is Like you you're dealing with toilet paper that was produced in a factory with materials that were sort of somewhere else.
And it was driven between factories and transport. Anyway, I don't want to get
Rae Leigh: And everything. No, I
Josh Simons: that. And so.
Rae Leigh: big picture.
Visionary person. I can see, you can see the pictures.
Josh Simons: yes. And so.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Josh Simons: I always saw that, you know, music as a industry is one of the most complicated in the world. If you think about, club. Even your most basic clubs should have 50 people. You've got booking agents, promoters, merchandise, people, merchandise manufacturers, front of house, all, you know, maybe back the past, depending on how big the crew is you've got to manage it, probably involved.
There's going to be pyros that you've got to notify of set list anyway, that we've calculated the numbers. So that 27 different people you need to put to know or to deal with rather to put on the most basic of shows. a lot of artists say, I, you know, the reason I get into music is I don't want to. be a business person.
I don't want to go into the work. The irony of course, is that by choosing a life in music, you are actually probably dealing with more complex supply chains than almost any other industry. and I, I mean, I studied, I'm an expert in this area. This is what I've had to become since running this company. And I have to speak to investors to the, to the complexity of this and why solving it is a valuable proposition.
So the idea was banned. of it being this sort of disconnected, complicated mess that it is today. What if we had one conduit with which you could coordinate all of these various requirements and the requirements change? Like I, you know, what I needed when I was playing at a club is very different than what I needed when I was playing in arena.
And so the idea is that if Amper is helpful to you at some stage in your. You instinctively know, to come back to it at a later stage in your career, as, as
inevitably more requirements present
themselves as they will. And so that's, that's the mission I'm trying to solve. And we often call it. Like the unsexy side of the industry, because it's not Spotify, it's not streaming, you know, Drake or anything like that.
It's very much a personnel requirement, problem solving app. And that's not very sexy. It said, like that.
But it's solving an important problem because what your point before
everything starts from saving someone's hand and saying, hello. Right. And then
everything flows there. So we're like doing a very bottoms up
first step in your journey kind of solution if you
Rae Leigh: love it. I mean, I, I see music as, and, and Olaf foams as a pure way of connecting the human race. Like that is kind of our job is to connect people on, on a common emotion or, or topic that is allowing us to. Discuss or, or whatever is just view and accept and love on a particular part of being human and it's connection.
Like that is the root of why we love it. Like you said, it's universal because we're all human and we all feel the same feel. We all bleed the same way. And yeah, I love it. Like the industry is so relationship driven and, and I, I run my business that way, my music business that way is I work with people that I trust and I have good gut feelings about.
And sometimes I actually don't have, Tangible way to trust someone or tangible thing that's saying, Hmm, this is a definite no, it's hard. And it's so hard because, and unfortunately is one of the industries where there are a lot of people out there saying, trust me, I know what I'm doing. Give me your money.
And if they say the right things, like I'll get you here on this playlist, or I'll get you these, these sorts of numbers. And, and if you just trust them,
Willy nilly, if you quickly find out whether it's true or not, but
Josh Simons: and then unfortunately they're praying
totally. You have to trust your insurance tuition, but they're also preying on the most vulnerable thing that.
people have, which is a drain, like your dreams that probably you at your most vulnerable. Someone saying, I can make you famous. If you send me $300, it's never that simple, but we have, we see it on Vampyr. And we're actually developing, we've developed a number of ways to kick those people off and make sure they never come back, but we're also developing other methods so that people can transact safely through the Tampa. And we will hold the money in escrow until both parties say the job is done. So.
Rae Leigh: That's brilliant.
Josh Simons: We've built out a suite of tools to help fix that problem in the industry. But anyway, that's thank you. That's coming in probably July, but. Anyway, yes. Trust is a, is a wild thing. I'll never forget. After, you know, my band had had a couple of years on the radio and people from high school, knew that, you know, my band was doing okay, this girl reached out from like the year above or something.
And I always knew that she wanted to be a singer, but, you know, bless her. She wasn't very talented. She was pretty, but she kind of couldn't hold a note. And her songwriting is frankly not amazing.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Josh Simons: But nevertheless, she reached out and said, Hey, I know you're doing Okay.
I've got this manager who wants to take me on?
I said, congratulations. She goes, yeah. He only wants me to, pay him $3,000 a month. and, I was like
Rae Leigh: Oh,
Josh Simons: stop, stop, stop, stop. But then the reason I tell this story is. that happen a few times and to, you know, people have called me and they've been in a similar predicament and it's just like, wow, there's obviously such an education gap in music too, because people should realize you'd never pay for like upfront for a manager.
They take their commission, right. Either their performance, their only performance basis is.
anyone, is anyone serious professionalists consent. And yet it happens. People do pray on the dreams. Yeah, pretty young people who want to be famous. It's horrible. I think.
Rae Leigh: It's it's so hard to, and, and on top of that, like I find it, people tend to not, you don't want to gossipy though, like, you don't want to have a bad experience with someone and then run around telling everyone that person's horrible because you don't know, like, you don't want to be that person that,
But yeah, I find it hard.
Like if I find someone
that, you know, I've had a bad experience with an, I, I don't feel like I can trust anymore. I can't tell anyone. And I feel horrible when I see someone else that maybe I like is going to work with that person. I'm like, oh God, I hope they have a
better experience than I did. But yeah, it's just it's that is the
tricky part about the industry.
You know, with a plumber, you can go get reviews or you ask your neighbor who used them in the local area and they tend to get a reputation. And that is like in this industry, those people who have a bad reputation, they don't last very long. Well, their reputation gets to a point where, you know, eventually all the people who are in the industry for long enough, they know who those people are.
But
it sucks that you have to be in the industry for that long to find out,
you know, there's no like review process.
Josh Simons: Yeah, Like, I mean, like I've dealt with some
shitty, I dunno. Can we swear on this? I
dunno
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
That's a podcast is fine. I edited.
Josh Simons: great. I've dealt with some really bad lawyers, for example. And some really famous bad boys as well. And you know, you can go on Yelp if you want, but no, one's checking that anyway.
Like that's just not how the industry works and, there does need to be.
A way to solve that. I mean, another thing that Vampyr is doing, but again, we're not really, we're not designed for people who already have a network we're designed for people who were kind of trying to establish their own.
So, this will become important to the next generation of stars, but probably not the current, but anyway, we are doing an endorsement system where. If you've worked with someone on the app, you can vouch what they've done much the same way you can on LinkedIn. Actually you can endorse them and we're going to use that to strengthen the algorithm.
So not only will it be a way to not only will it be a way to, Obviously, see if they're trustworthy, assess if they're trustworthy or not. And their quality of work is com comes recommended or not. It's also a way for us to help match appropriate skilled people, because we want to be matching tens with tens And fives with fives.
We it's inappropriate to be matching a five of the 10, not because of the liters. And, but
because there's, you do have to climb the way up. Like It's not a matter of forcing people to pay their dues. You actually have.
Improve over time. It does
take time to develop your ear. It takes time to develop your craft.
And so it's in our interest to be matching a confidence. Exactly. So it's in our interest to be matching, people who are in the same league and that's, I won't lie. Like it's really, really tricky. And our algorithm is seven years.
old and it's been learning for seven years And it's.
Really, really basic compared to probably what Facebook and stuff can do, but that's because we have, you know, 26 employees and they have 40,000.
And it's yeah, we were getting there slightly.
Rae Leigh: I liked the endorsement
idea as well. Like I think, I don't know if you've ever heard of star now. It's like a similar type of platform, but
for actors and models. Yeah. So, and they do endorsement and it is one of the things that like I've been in there for over 10 years.
That, that sort of experience, unfortunately, is judged. Like you've been on anything for 10 years plus or whatever it is now. And you've got so many endorsements, you've worked with so many people, you know, these there's many people say she's great professional, whatever rocks up on time, happy person like, that, that has so much weight on whether you then choose to work with that person or not, you know, like, are they a nice professional person?
That for me, I'm like, I just want someone who will rock up on time most
of the time and have a good attitude. And I'm in a corporate industry, that's kind of just a standard. Like you, you kind of be in corporate without
being professional, rocking up, having good communication skills. And I come from a corporate industry for
over 10 years and then coming into the music industry.
Oh, it's so frustrating.
Josh Simons: Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: So
Josh Simons: I'll take, I'll take that. I tell you the, the challenge with
endorsements for music is people can often use it as a way to give their rating for the songs themselves, which they like, And it might sound silly, but it's like, it's a real challenge that we haven't, I think we've come close to, like in our prototype,
which, you know, you
can't see, but I think we've come close to solving it, but,
you just ask a simple, like yes or no, do you
endorse this person? The artist who's receiving the feedback can take it as a judgment on their artistry overall, not their quality, not their quality of character. Do you see that? Yeah, exactly. And so how do you. Make that clear without asking too many questions and making it too complex, a
process so that no one will do it.
And those are the sorts of, you call them a UX challenge that our team has to consider and discuss and talk through. And I think we'll get there, but, it's not as simple as just, Yeah.
They're good
Rae Leigh: No. And that that's also, you can't control how people receive information either. Like, one of the best things someone told me once was you'll always get, you won't ever know someone fully until you've had conflict with them. Because the tree character comment. And I actually can't, sometimes I use this as a, as a test.
If I'm, if my intuition is going, I'm not sure
about this person, let's say no and see what happens. And, and, and sometimes people take it really well and I'm like, oh, thank goodness. And I'm going to work with those people in the future. And then sometimes you say no, and it blows up in your face. And it's like, thank God. I said, no,
Josh Simons: Dodged a bullet.
Rae Leigh: dodged a massive bullet. So,
Josh Simons: So do we need to have a fight before the end of this podcast then? So, establish the trust? yeah.
Rae Leigh: yeah. Like, well, let's, let's do that. I don't know you're from Melbourne though. So like that's an instant trust point for
Josh Simons: you go. There you go. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: But yeah. All right. So one of the things that I like to ask people, because we are talking about songwriting in this podcast and that's who we're talking to as well as our other songwriters.
When you go into a co-write, what would you say is the most important thing to
prepare?
Josh Simons: I said, I think I said it sorta earlier, but bring your empathy shoes. I mean, I, I. Take more of a, I don't actually like running the computer. Although you don't always have the luxury of having an engineer, but, I don't Love running the computer, but I do take a producer mindset to a songwriting sessions.
And what I mean by that specifically is one of the first things I'll ask them is what's going, what's been happening in your life. And it. doesn't take long if You
ask the right questions and you're truly listening, to get
down to the root of whatever it is, that's either driving them to be in a good mood or a bad Moodle, wherever it is on the
spectrum in between that they might be in. And once you hone in on that that the reason I do this, I'm giving away a secret here. the reason I do this is because that song is going to be 10
times more powerful. Artists by
the time they've tapped into whatever it
is, that's driving them at that moment. And the attachment that they'll have to that song, I think increases the likelihood that that song will
get released. So that's, that's one of my
tricks. I've never said that I don't, I I'm half regretting saying that actually.
Rae Leigh: You going to tell me to take the podcast down now?
Josh Simons: No, no, no, but I
Rae Leigh: no, but I agree like emotion. The key point and when, for me before co-writing and going professional, it was all about getting out what was in my body at the time. And that was the therapy of the song. And if you can do that in a way that is structured and like with the thought process of it being commercialized, then you can think about, well, I feel this way.
I think a lot of people feel this way in general because of these things. Potentially create something that's going to allow people, like you said, if you're feeling happy or you're feeling sad, which songs do you like to play? Like you want it to create a song that someone's going to go to when they're feeling that particular way as well.
And if you're feeling that you can tap into that
at the same time as being therapeutic. So, I mean, every song I write for me, it's all about emotional intelligence. Like I want children to be safe, but I think for children to be safe, we need to have an emotionally intelligent adult society.
Josh Simons: Yep. Totally agree.
Rae Leigh: And so, and music has the ability to, you know, and it all art and movies, like they help us reflect on our own lives and let us see things like you said, from an empathetic point of view, when we tell a story.
So it's, it's beautiful. And I didn't think that that's a bad way to write a song at all. I think it's, it's really good. Even if you are just considering about getting the song cut and it being more
powerful, it's still emotion is the
Josh Simons: I was going to say it is, I guess it is sort of a commercial agenda, but it's also.
A much more emotionally rewarding experience. Like any songwriter who's ever co-written will know
that moment when everything just gels and you're in sync with the other person, it's like better than sex, you know, it's a real ecstasy moment and it's better than it's better than ecstasy as well.
Rae Leigh: that's why I call it tourists. So
Josh Simons: Yeah. Yeah.
So
I mean, it's, it's also because I get to
if, if it clicks and sometimes, you know, not all sessions click of course, but when it clicks, that feeling is better than anything and it overrides the commercial agenda in that moment. So there's multiple reasons why I go about it the way I do.
And I'm a softie and I like, I like music that makes me feel so I like creating
it
as much as I
Rae Leigh: I think everyone does
Josh Simons: yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Rae Leigh: that. It just depends on how you want to feel or how you are feeling at the moment. If, if you could work with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it
be?
Josh Simons: Oh man. Well, I'm gonna sit on this for too long. Probably Bruce Springsteen. I think I, I
just, over his entire discography, the number of styles. The diversity and the sounds, and the emotion, the range of emotions is just,
I think, I can't think of anyone that has a catalog quite so prolific and broad.
And I just think that would be, I think I'd learn a lot from him. Like he's, he's not my favorite artist. He's, he's certainly in my top 10, but, I just think I could probably learn a lot from him. Although now that I'm thinking about it, Maybe someone like a Rick Rubin would be an interesting person to work with, but I would want him to, I would want to work with him though with him producing my project.
And I don't think that will ever happen. So, because I don't really have a project anymore. But it's a dream. So there you go. That's
Rae Leigh: you ever going to get back into
releasing your and stuff?
Josh Simons: am. I am. I just.
Rae Leigh: W
Josh Simons: has 2,600 shareholders.
You know, we're, we're managing millions of dollars of other people's money now. And I don't respond, I can't responsibly, pursue anything other than being the CEO.
But people understand, I, I still sneak into songwriting session probably on
average once every couple of months. And usually when I do that,
Pretty well known people or at least professional writers and I'm blessed like that And I know that that won't last forever. So
Rae Leigh: Um,
Josh Simons: I'm looking at, yeah, it is. I mean, I think vampyr hopefully lasts for many, many years to come, but I won't be the CEO
forever. And when, when that day comes to hand
that over to someone else and they take a vacation first and then I'm going to. Absolutely. Throw myself back into, into music in a much, much more than personal direct way.
Rae Leigh: Well, I think it's brilliant what you're doing that you're sacrificing, I guess so much in the sense that you're not doing your music and the things that you love because you see the bigger picture. And I'm definitely one of those people that sees the bigger picture. And it took me a long time to realize that that's not something that everyone can see and you know, you're doing it because you want to see things be done better.
And for people to have a better run than what you did in the industry. And.
That's really honorable. I really appreciate what you're doing. And so glad that we get to help and I hope everyone who's listening goes and jumps on it is a fantastic app. And it's, it's got so many things. I'm sure I haven't even explored all the amazing things.
And it sounds like there's some more fun stuff to come as well.
Josh Simons: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: As a new person, as a new person in the industry. And when I say new, like I released my first single in 2020. So like I'm feeling new, I'm still building those connections in that team. And so, you know, for me, this is a godsend
Josh Simons: Great.
Rae Leigh: for a lot of people out there who are listening and they're still trying to better their skills.
It's a godsend for them as well, because it is all about connection. It's about working together and the more we work together the better it is the quality of what we're doing,
Josh Simons: and it's also about horizontal networking, which we won't get into maybe today. People often go, is there anyone famous on there? Well, the answer, the short answer to that is, yes, there's lots of famous people on there, but that's missing the point. You sending a spammy message to someone who's you recognize?
You're like, oh shit, this person is actually kind of Well known. That's not going to necessarily elicit any response. You need to have something of value to offer them. Now, something of value might be feedback. It could be a compliment. But your objective shouldn't ultimately be to that sort of.
Networking your objectives should be. And I seen this, you know, in, in so many famous producers today, they didn't come up because some bigger name gave them a break. They came up with their squad and the squad came up together and that's what the whole purpose of Amper is, is build your squad, support each other.
And inevitably one of you will pop. And when that person pops, if you've been good to them, hopefully they'll, they'll carry you with them. It's this it's that whole, you know, a rising tide lifts. All right.
Thing and people really need to understand that we spend a fair bit of time on like our commute to a communication channels and blog posts and stuff.
Talking about the benefits of horizontal networking and how, you know. you've got to put in the work, but the reward is often going to be a lot bigger, than an unsustainable concept of vertical network. But there you.
Rae Leigh: That's beautiful. Thank you so much for your time, Josh. I really appreciate it. And I wish you all the best and if there's anything we can do to help, just let us know.
Josh Simons: Thank you, Rae Leigh. Thank you for having me on this is like a really refreshing and fun chat. So.
Rae Leigh: Good. Thank you.
