#114 Kate Schutt
Kate Schutt is an incredible singer songwriter that is down to earth and passionate about sharing her experiences and life lessons through public speaking and song. Her Ted X talk "A Grief Casserole -- How to help your friends & family through loss" has been viewed over 36 thousand times and her story about supporting her mother through terminal cancer has inspired her passion and music as she shares. She is incredibly intelligent studying at Harvard university and Berklee College of music.
Kate Schutt is an award-winning songwriter, singer, guitarist, and producer whose voice NPR calls “glassily clear and glossily sweet.” Kate studied the influence of jazz on poetry at Harvard, and studied jazz guitar at Berklee College of Music. Working with legendary producer/arranger Rob Mounsey, Kate just finished recording her new album, Bright Nowhere. It maps the landscape of loss around her mother’s diagnosis and death from ovarian cancer.
Kate spent four years as her mom’s primary caregiver, along the way writing songs about life, loss, and (to use Christopher Hitchens’s potent phrase) “living dyingly.”
See her Ted X talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfDV103duCM
Connect with Kate:
Transcript
Rae Leigh: All right. Welcome to a songwriter tryst with Kate Schutt. How are you?
Kate Schutt: I'm doing great. How are you?
Rae Leigh: I'm good. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with you. You have, I feel like you've done everything. You started at Harvard and you've been to Berkeley college of music and you've done a TEDx talk and gosh, he'd been through like such a life.
I'm keen to find out more about you and I'm sure everyone else has too. Usually what I do because everyone answered this question differently is I get you to say, who are you and where do you come from?
Kate Schutt: Who am I and where do I come from? I'm all in with pluck and zeal. That's who I am and where I come from.
I am just visiting. That's all. I'm just visiting this body, the safe that I currently reside in on this blue spinning orb. So, I think I come from the life force that animates,
And for very.
Rae Leigh: an
Kate Schutt: and a very, for very brief moments,
Rae Leigh: like, uh, yeah. You coming in and you shaken us up and I think that's exactly what we're meant to do so well done.
Kate Schutt: to.
Rae Leigh: Tell me about songwriting and how that started for you and where music started for you.
Kate Schutt: but really started music really started for me because I am the third child,
the youngest, And I have two older brothers. And None, neither of them played any instruments or, were forced to play any instruments or seem to show any interest in it.
And when I came along, my parents were like, come hell or high water. One of these kids is going to study an instrument and I was the only one left. So,
Rae Leigh: right. And you were the girls,
Kate Schutt: and I'm the girl. So exactly. so I picked up, I took piano lessons and then very soon after that I picked up the guitar. And Yeah.
and the rest is history.
I was very lucky to have a fantastic guitar teacher. When I was young, I just stumbled onto a. Bebop jazz guitar teacher when I was like 11 years old and, Yeah, and continued to study with him actually all my life. Even when I went to Harvard, he moved his family to Boston. Not, because I went to Boston too, but just because, and so I got to continue my studies with him.
And then really because of him was when I decided to drop out of Harvard and go over to Berkeley college of music and study there for. A number of years, and then come back to Harvard and then go back to Brooklyn, kind of do that dance. But, so that's really kind of where it all stemmed from. And, also my parents, they did have a lot of music playing around the house and this sort of two biggest musical influences on me, I think, as a child were Tina Turner.
The private dancer record came out when I was 10 I wore that I had that one cassette and I wore it out on my Smurf Walkman. And, then my parents always played the Ella Fitzgerald sings quarter song book,
Album, double album. So those were the two. Yeah. Yeah.
The two things that I heard the most that I can remember hearing the most as a kid and loving.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And so they got you into piano and then you naturally went to the guitar or was that something they kind of encouraged as well?
Kate Schutt: No, they were very, bent on the piano and I just happened to see some boy classmates of mine, some boys in my class who were playing the guitar and I was like, I can do that So, I asked if I could start studying that as well?
And so, they rented a little terrible classical guitar for me.
And that's what I started on. And then, just went from there but I always played in bands. Like I always very soon. Those boys that I saw playing guitar, like we made a band and we literally yeah. In high school, And before that school, in grade school,
Rae Leigh: right? Yeah. Cool.
Kate Schutt: yeah, and we were just playing, you, know, the music of the grateful dead and Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix and, That kind of classic rock stuff.
And then when I went to high school, then I started getting into a bunch of different kinds of bands and some acoustic stuff and rock stuff and more jazz oriented stuff. So
Rae Leigh: Yep. so you've always been fairly obsessed with music, obviously.
Kate Schutt: been a big, big part of my life. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I can tell.
Do you, is there like a defining moment for you when you realized that was a big part of who you were rather than just something that mum and dad or, something that was around?
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Kate Schutt: I feel like I still have those moments to be totally honest with you. It's like, it's such a, it can be such a grind. And I feel like. Every day I'm recommitting to music and to re member like, remember that, uh, it's, it's this joyful, wonderful thing that I get to do And to keep my focus on that and not on all the other bullshit.
Rae Leigh: And what about like, because playing in a band in high school is something that a lot of people do in music often for a lot of, especially in high school. Like for me, I don't know about you, but we had these careers counselors and they'd say, all right, what are you going to do when you leave school? Usually if you say musician, that'd be like, yeah, but you need like a backup plan because that's, that's not a career to a lot of careers development offices.
Was there a moment for you when you were like, no, this is, this is me. This is what I'm going to do.
Kate Schutt: I think it, it didn't happen until college really, for me. Cause I had always play, I was always playing music and always had a little band going on the side. And then when I got to college, I was actually a really serious athlete. I played two division, one sports at Harvard. And so I played women's ice hockey and women's lacrosse and you don't really,
Rae Leigh: Wow.
Kate Schutt: yeah.
You don't have much time in your life at that level.
You can sort of either. Do your sport and do your homework, or you can do your sport and not do your homework and do other things, and every college athlete at that level has to figure out what plan they're on. And so I was on the player sport and do your homework plan. And
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Kate Schutt: so it? didn't leave a lot of time for practicing and working on my music.
And so one day. So here's the answer to your question. It took me a while to get there one day. I was, Yeah. I was walking down to the rink to get ready for practice and ice hockey is quite a in, Yeah.
It takes a while to put on your equipment and you're always, it's just a long process. And. then, lifting and physical therapy and all that kind of stuff.
So I was like, just walking down to the rank and I was like, Hmm, I wonder how many hours did I spend doing ice hockey? So, tallied it up. And it was like four or five, six sort of depending all weekend long when we had games and stuff like that. And So I was like, wow, that's a lot. That's a lot of time.
Like, I wonder what it would be like if I put even two hours a day, Into music really seriously. And then it was just that sort of blew the doors off for me. That's when I realized like, wait a second. I'm you know, I wasn't. I didn't want to go to the Olympics. I didn't plan on coaching sports was just something I'd
always done and loved and is part of my identity.
Yeah. It was just, part of my identity. And
but I didn't, wasn't planning on taking it somewhere. So then that was, when I basically
like went across the river to Berkeley college of
music and. Checked it out and thought, Yeah.
I think I'm going to take a little, I'm gonna press pause on this other thing and, and really turn all my attention towards music for awhile.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, So you are kind of like an all or nothing type of person I can tell by just, all right.
Kate Schutt: yeah,
Rae Leigh: And if you're going to be an all-in type of person, the Berkeley college of music is one of those places that you can definitely do that. What was that experience like for you? How did that change your life?
Having
Kate Schutt: well, for me, it was actually really
terrible experience because I didn't have, it was amazing in
it, but it was for me personally, like I didn't really, though I had studied a lot and played a lot of music. I wasn't like, I wasn't studying theory and ear training and like, All the stuff that most people who, who are planning on going to music school are studying like, I was playing
sports and
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Kate Schutt: like, I was, you
know, Yeah.
So I got there.
Rae Leigh: Well, there's jazz nodes.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. exactly. I got there And I was like, I was screwed basically. Like, I really quite quickly realized like, whoa I'm, uh, like really, uh, probably have no business being here, but Okay. So I just nose to the grindstone. I am, I went as crazy as like ahead of stopwatch and I was practicing like 10 hours a day on the stopwatch, like yeah.
In addition to going to class like that didn't include class. And so for me, it was just like It was like drinking from a fire hose basically. And trying to catch up so to speak, which I couldn't really catch up, but just really keep my head above water and learn really quickly.
A lot of things that I didn't know. So it took about, I'd say like four or five semesters till I got kinda my legs under me and felt. A little bit better about things, but it was rough. It's a, it's an amazing place. It was
then it was very small. It wasn't
like it is now. There were only 2000 students then, and only
10% were women.
Like I was the only woman in The guitar
department studying guitar and, so it was, it also had its challenges in that regard too. But but I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And now you're like releasing music and you've written a whole bunch of stuff that I know it was inspired by your mother and the journey, which she went through. Talk to us about your artist journey and. The process and what you want to happen
when you release music. and, because you're not even just releasing music, you're
talking a lot about,
The grief and loss process.
So how did,
how has that translated into what you're doing
now?
Kate Schutt: Yeah. Well, And I've been making records all along, sort of once I finished, once I graduated, I never graduated from Berkeley. It just tons of classes there. But it finished, uh, at Harvard in 99. And uh, just basically started making records and touring and, just doing it.
And. Been doing that pretty much steadily since then. And, uh, lived in Canada for about eight years. From 2003 to 2010. So seven years, I guess. Uh, it was doing it up there in 2010. I moved to New York. And it was just getting my feet under me here and yeah. Getting the lay of the land.
And, uh, my mom got diagnosed with ovarian cancer. So. It really, wasn't a really, wasn't a question for me. My mom's just an amazing person. And as soon as we found out, I, there was just, it wasn't even, it was a choice because everything in life is a choice, including not choosing, but uh, I just moved home and just decided to see her through that experience.
And even though she was given, she had a very rare and aggressive form of cancer. So even though she was given only about a year and a half to live. We actually, she was actually alive for four years, so, uh, four and a half years. So, yeah, I didn't, yeah, I didn't have much time.
or space to work on music and certainly not in the beginning. I think it was a year and a half before I picked up my guitar. literally didn't play it for a year and a half.
It was just so full throttle her care. And, but I kept taking notes and had ideas for things I wanted to write about and things I wanted to say to her. And so when she went into remission, her first big remission, that's when I got a chance to work on some songs and, and then it was just kind of back and forth like that.
Until she died and then once she died, I obviously had some time to really dedicate to finishing this body of work. And then yeah. Set about finding the right I had up until this time produced my records myself. And, but I knew with this one that I wasn't, I didn't want to do that. So then it was about finding the right producer who was really going to get it.
And so,
Rae Leigh: And that can be
hard.
Kate Schutt: Yeah, that took a while. Yeah, it was funny. The music is so personal. Right. And it's not, but it also is. And so everybody heard it before I found Rob mousey was like, I just, I really think this is a solo guitar and voice record. And I was like, Yeah. I hear you. But It's definitely not. like, yes, it could be that, but it's also not that.
And so it took a really long time to be like, Hey, who do you think? Who should I, just asking all my friends and finally. Finally met well had met Rob actually a long time before that, but I had forgotten about him actually. And then one of, one of our close friends was like, you should call Rob bouncy.
And then I was like, yeah, you're right. He's the one. And so, so yeah, so, really my hope with
the record and
then. The reason I wrote the music first and foremost was to say some things to my mom that really couldn't be said
otherwise, and then this, yeah. And the second reason was because grief and loss, I don't know how it, is in Australia, but in the United States of America, we really suck at doing
grief and loss.
Like
no one teaches
Rae Leigh: struggle with it in the Western world. Yeah. It's not. I dunno, like my husband's British and I think in Australia were definitely influenced by the British culture. Just as much as probably you guys were, and it's not something that is a part of it really like there's the funeral.
And then that's it, there's no specific morning time or,
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: it's not really encouraged to talk about it. But
it's like, my mom was in aged care for quite a long time. And
so growing up, I knew it was a very important part of life. It's just something that we all have to go through just like anything else.
But it is, it's not something that a lot of people are comfortable talking about.
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Nobody's comfortable talking about it. No one knows how to treat you when you're going through a loss. I found, I was quite shocked by sort of, everyone disappeared and kind of left me in a vacuum and, and,
Rae Leigh: and. that's what I helpful
Kate Schutt: yeah. it's just very strange. And I, when I got the opportunity to get, do the TEDx talk, it was like I, I really made the songs as a kind of like a key for a lock.
Like if you were going through grief or loss, or you knew someone who was, and maybe you didn't know how to.
Do you didn't know what to say, because we aren't taught what to say or how to act. You could send them a song and tell them.
This is what I'm thinking of about you in your situation, or I hope you know this and so, so that the songs would function as a kind of script
to open that door, basically.
Rae Leigh: Don't feel alone. You can let people know that you're thinking of them, even if you don't know what to say or how to support them.
Kate Schutt: And so that when the Ted talk came up, that was just a perfect opportunity to sort of, further talk about this fact of life and sort of feature of, of our life and try to help people.
Understand what it's like when you're going
through that and when you're left
alone and, and then sort of give people really that
talk gives people three things that they can do that,
In, in any situation
that will help You help your friend who's going through loss or
grief.
Okay.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's something that is changing. I think there's a lot of things that our Western culture doesn't talk about very well and it causes problems. Doesn't it. And think it's funny, it's like, what's wrong with talking about stuff, we're just avoiding conflict. We don't want there to be wars again, but we really should be able to have open conversations about anything.
You shouldn't be afraid to talk about stuff, but It's happening more and more, I reckon as well. Probably cause the place to talk about things is not social media, it needs to be in person. And that's happening less and less, but
Kate Schutt: I think, Yeah. I think for people it's really like getting started because I think, I believe that everybody, has a good heart and wants to do the right thing. For the most part, 95% of people want to show up in some way, want to do the right thing, but they don't know what to say.
And so if you give them like, The start, of, of a sentence that really helps.
Or if you say, look, Anywhere pretty much in the world, you can figure out a way to get a meal to someone
these days, and it just takes a little thinking outside the box to figure that
out. But once you do, it's pretty easy. And let me tell you, having been the person who's putting food on the table. Well, while taking care of someone, that's a big help,
So
it's
Rae Leigh: All of them. Some UberEATS.
Kate Schutt: exactly. So it's like one of those, if you just give people the idea, then I think they know what to do, but thinking of it on their own and, and, generating the words to say on their own hard.
Rae Leigh: and so is that where bright, nowhere comes in
Kate Schutt: Yeah. I mean that, that's the record that's the. that's
where the songs come in is that you can send one of them to, a friend or you can play it, play, fight the
good fight for, your parent, who's going through something tough, or you or your friend who's just got diagnosed with some kind of cancer or something like that.
It, it gives you these songs that can represent the feelings that you have.
Rae Leigh: And I think that's such a beautiful gift that you've actually gone out of your way to share your experience and actually give something so fricking practical to, to us as a community of people,
To be able to use that as a way of connecting us. And that's what music does,
right? Like it connects us at its purest form.
That's what it is. So I, I love that. I think
it was beautiful. And what's it been like for the feedback that you've had from people listening to your album and hearing your story and what you've been through and how it's helped and where it's all come from.
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
it really started once, once I did the Ted talk And I, of course when it came out, I got disillusioned with. Comments and, thank you so much. I'm sending this to all my kids so they know what to do, or, oh my God, I've been struggling with what to say to my friend, and now you just, you gave me, I know what to say, and I know what to do.
And still, that talk is now three, three years old, but I still get tons of comments about it all the time. And then with the record,
I
think it's a.
Rae Leigh: think
Kate Schutt: I mean it's, it's not the record is it's, uh, it's not heavy. That's not the word I would describe it with, but, it's, it's intense. There's a lot of light and there's a lot of dark. And if you listened to the whole thing through which I suggest people do, because it takes you on that journey that I think is really cathartic. And really I think, I don't think, I know you will be a different person if you've listened to all 12 songs in a row by the end.
People got to take a deep breath and dive in,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Kate Schutt: Because it goes a lot of
places. Like,
I said, it's not a downer, but
it's that I talk about some, hard stuff,
Rae Leigh: and that's good. We need to allow ourselves to talk about some hard stuff sometimes not all the time. , life's meant to be up and down, but, we need to know that we can get through those down moments. And the other people have been there as well, and that, you survive and just knowing that someone else has done this. like,
Mean, I've got three kids and knowing like, cause I was petrified of having children , just knowing that like, okay, this is something women have done for the entirety of the world. Like this happens. It's okay. People don't really die from it anymore. just knowing that other people have done this and it happens on a daily basis, helped me get over that, but I've really, yeah.
Yeah. But I was still petrified, but I didn't think life was going to go on,
but the knowledge of someone else has done this. And the reality is everyone's been like a lot of people have been through grief. everyone goes through, at some point, if you have a relationship with anyone, you're going to go through grief at some point, And so we do get through it, people do get through it, but I think like we talked about earlier, if it's not talked about, it's hard
to then know how people get through it, and then if you're going through it and you haven't heard about it,
it can be really hard.
So it's beautiful that you have given this gift and I think it's really admirable. So thank you for all the hard work you've put in because you'll never know the full extent of what you've done for people.
Kate Schutt: Yeah, totally.
Rae Leigh: It's really cool what you're doing. And so what.
Kate Schutt: The other, the only other thing I'd like to say is, I tried to represent, I really wanted to represent very, truly. The sort of complexity of, my mom was going to die from that disease. There was No. doubt about it. So it was, you, that you're, if we chose the Western medicine route and chemotherapy And radiation and all those kinds of things.
And like, fighting to keep her alive, but you ultimately know that this is the thing, that's going to. This is going to kill her. And so I really strove to represent that experience very, honestly, there's a song on the record called victory on the road to defeat, which is really about, uh, really about that thing.
Where at the end of a. Of, uh, of an illness like that, the hospital and the doctors are just continuously bombarding you with options. And you're like, until I finally had to stand up in the middle of a meeting with her oncologist and say, Nope, no, like it's, none of this is working anymore.
We're going home to hospice, like. No, we don't want any more options. We want comfort, ease at home, with her dogs. Like, so I think one of the things that I don't really get to talk about much is just that and one of the things that's really
Touching or, gratifying for me is before the pandemic, I played to a number of like cancer support communities and house
concerts with people who are survivors and, they just really
recognize that the journey in it and, and the bittersweetness and the toughness of all the decisions and how hard it all is and how, just how rough it is.
So that's.
Rae Leigh: music will be
healing.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's good to recognize how hard things can be sometimes. No. And the worst thing, I've been through my own hard stuff and when people are like, oh, put some concrete in your coffee and toughen up and get over it, like that kind of attitude all, I have
compassion because I understand it comes from a place of uh, immaturity of emotional intelligence.
But at the same time, it's like,
That's not good advice.
Kate Schutt: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: advice,
Kate Schutt: That was bad advice. Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: but it's good to recognize that because yeah, it's definitely something that's going around. That's bad advice that's going around and people listen to it and it's it's not healthy. All right. What about co-writing with your music and stuff? I know that particularly this album was a lot of.
Soul searching and self-reflection of what you were going through, but have you done a lot of co-writing with the years of
songwriting that you've been doing?
Kate Schutt: I didn't do a lot of co-writing in the beginning. And then, Yeah,
As my career went on, I did co-writing I co-write and I go right now with a number of writers and for me co-writing is it's like a totally different beast, it's like it's, to me,
it's almost like putting on a costume and like, Going to a costume ball because I can say things and do things as a co-writer that I won't let myself do as a, when I do a solo.
Right. Which is one of the reasons why I really love it because it puts me into different places.
Then I, my natural proclivities.
Rae Leigh: it's mixing yourself up with someone else. Yeah. And I use this
analogy a
lot in this podcast because of the
name, somewhere to tourists. But for me it isn't is so much like writing a song is
like making love and doing it with someone else is very
different to doing it on your own,
And like
be a really different experience.
It doesn't mean that it's really
beautiful in both scenarios though, and it's just a completely different experience and something else can come out of it. But yeah, it is. It's one of those things that, like I learned a lot from doing co-writing I reckon, but at the same time, some of my favorite songs are just solely ones, the ones that just, and they're probably because they're more, for me, they're probably more honest and more, uh, unique to
just me,
which is still going to be universal because the more personal, the more universal I believe, but yeah.
Yeah,
Kate Schutt: it's definitely it's fun. And it's a skill in its own, right? That I like having.
Mmm,
Rae Leigh: would you say is the best advice for co-writing like that, that you've learned
Kate Schutt: Mmm Hmm. Oh, I just think, uh, being a good hang, being, uh, being a person that you want to be in the room with, like, not being too attached to your viewpoint and not being. Especially in the beginning, maybe towards the end of like you wrote a song and you're, you're looking It over and stuff like that.
There might be some battles worth dying for, but so writer, but I think in general, like for me, it's just being a good, being a person before a co-writer like being a good person, being a person you want to hang out
with and spend time with because.
That's what you're doing. You end up just, you end up spending hours and hours together talking about insanely personal things usually.
And if you, Yeah, it's so intimate and if you're not just, uh, if you're not a good hang, it's not fun,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It can be awkward.
Kate Schutt: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: It probably won't go anywhere and it'll come through. Okay. What do you think the best advice is that you've ever been given?
Kate Schutt: Oh man. Here's some Really
good advice. I that's I'm old, so I've gotten a lot of good advice over the years, so I'll give you something recent. Here's something
Rae Leigh: All right.
Kate Schutt: The best recent advice is this equation stress plus rest equals growth. by the word stress, both good stress.
So, which is the term for that is use stress E U S T R E S S and distress. So, like what we would turn bad stress, but so w the, the category of stress encompasses both good and bad. Plus rest equals growth. So a lot of people, myself included a lot of us in the Western world think that the equation is stress plus stress equals growth.
Rae Leigh: Yup.
Kate Schutt: And, uh, it's, that's actually, that may be true and it may get you. Some things in your life
at a certain time in your life and allow you to have this illusion of control. And but really after a certain time period and at a certain point in your life, I think it's, the illusion of control is exactly that it's an illusion and,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Kate Schutt: And.
And it also, you just, that doesn't work anymore. You know this better than anyone, if you have kids. This is
Rae Leigh: Oh, yeah, there is no control with kids.
Kate Schutt: right. And yeah. So I think like, can you be as, uh, can you be as bull-headed and committed to your rest as you are to your, as your, to your stress, so to speak, to your hustle. And if, you are, you will see a tremendous amount of growth
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And if you don't, your body will make time for the rest. Anyway, if you plan for it or you don't
plan for it either way your body will make you rest. If you don't allow
for it, it's called burnout.
Kate Schutt: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: that's a cycle that a lot of people go on.
And myself included. I've definitely been on those ones, but I think the more you do it as well, the
more you start to recognize the signs and you ha you learn, hopefully you learn that's what is happening.
And then you start to actually plan. For the time to rest and have that otherwise you're constantly creating more distress because you're having to break plans because you're
in hospital or something like,
Kate Schutt: Well, and I think if
Rae Leigh: is not good.
Kate Schutt: yeah. and if you're interested in a kind of growth that is not sort of herky jerky,
That's more steady and, I think that's the only way to get there and that's certainly been the case. This is a new piece of advice, as I said I've been working with a performance
Rae Leigh: good advice
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
I've been working with a performance psychologist and this is what, this is a piece of advice. This was like his big pur first thing that we worked on together.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: psychologist. I've never heard of one of those.
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Is that for people in the performance industry
Kate Schutt: It's uh, yeah, I it came out of the sports psychology, sports, performance, psychology. So, these are the men and women who, uh, are advising teams, NHL, NFL, NBA.
NBL teams And. Go in and work with elite athletes and Olympians and, any sort of, uh, this came out of the elite
athlete world. and then of course they started seeing results in, in, in that realm and, any elite performer at any levels, much like another kind. So, ballerinas
and And stuff like that. So people, a lead performance basically. So, so that's really
Rae Leigh: that's very
Kate Schutt: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: Cool. And.
One question. I like to ask people on this show because it is different for everyone. If you could go back and talk to yourself, say like when you were at high school or even when you were at Harvard and give yourself one piece of advice or something that you would have, you wish you had have known when you were younger, that you only now know through experience, what would it be?
Kate Schutt: I think it would be take it slow, I was just one of those people that stressful stress equals growth. You don't get into a place like Harvard, if you weren't focused but I think that it would be, take it slow and put yourself first, and spend the time to know, what it is you want. Cause I don't think that's really easy to do when you're.
Rae Leigh: It's not as it. I think that's one of those things I used to kill myself over, like, especially at uni and then even after uni, it was like, what am I meant to do? Who am I like, what's my purpose? What am I supposed to do? And I just tried everything and it. do. I remember if I look, if I think back now, I remember seriously, like beating myself up or like praying, and being like, come on, tell me just, I just want to know what I'm supposed to do so I can just focus on that one thing and have some sort of direction and it can be really hard when you don't know what your direction is, but I think growth comes out of that as well though.
Like not knowing sometimes then keeps you open.
Kate Schutt: For sure.
Rae Leigh: When you're not looking, you're just focusing your heads down and you're doing what you gotta do, but when you don't know and you're unsure of things, you're then open usually to everything. Cause you're constantly looking for that thing.
That's gonna grab you. So I think, yeah, it is a time and a place isn't there. Like for everything, like you said, if you hadn't have had the drive and focus, you wouldn't have got through what you were getting through is with studies and stuff. So,
Kate Schutt: What, What's
Rae Leigh: slowing down is good for
Kate Schutt: advice to your younger self?
Rae Leigh: Don't be so ashamed. Don't hold onto shame. Yeah. Yeah, don't beat don't dip. Don't be so afraid of what other people might think, or you can't protect other people, you gotta take care of yourself. I think what you said, take care of yourself. Yeah. Definitely put other people above myself for a very long time.
And I thought by not talking about
some things was protecting other people.
Kate Schutt: Hm.
Rae Leigh: Which was like a falsehood, but it was like, what you talked about with loss and stuff. It was like like my journey was child abuse and I didn't talk about it because I thought that would just cause more pain and, separation in the family and things like that.
But that was. That caused more damage. And the longer that lasted that the further the damage was created and, people say time heals all things sometimes in those, like in that scenario time made it
worse. It really did. And so sometimes time doesn't heal all things sometimes. If you leave things like, and I say, if people have been through trauma, if it's not dealt with within the first two years, it can become complex PTSD that can come out of that.
The sooner it's dealt with the better. So time. Does not heal at time of things. That's not, it same with like a wound or a sickness, cancer, you catch it early,
Kate Schutt: Right. you have a better, chance. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: right? The longer it goes untreated that the worse, it is. And it's same thing. I think with emotional trauma and things like that sometimes time is not what is needed sometimes healing and treatment, even if that is.
Just talking about it and getting a dealt with. Yeah. So that's kind of my advice to my younger self, but again, at the same time, I don't, I think everything works out the way it's meant to be. I kind of, I believe in divine timing,
but the goal behind that question is more to, I think that when we share our hindsight's there may be other people can learn from our mistakes or learn from us if they wish to, if we share it.
So it's one of those things. Yeah.
Kate Schutt: Yeah.But I agree with you. Divine timing is a. It's Def I I, believe in that
Rae Leigh: such a thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think that actually takes away some of my stress when I didn't believe in divine timing. Was, that was a stressful thing because I felt like I had to make things happen, but it's like all of a sudden it's like, actually, things are going to happen.
Like I'll still work hard, but things always happen exactly when they meant to. And just believing in that takes away. A lot of that stress around, around things must happen now, it's like, okay, well, if it didn't work out, there's a reason for it. And we'll just move on, keep going, don't stress about it.
My last question, we'll go back to the songwriting. Cause that's what the podcast is about. Uh, this happens all the time is if you could, co-write a song with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and why? Yeah.
Kate Schutt: oh it would be Cole Porter because he's a masterful songwriting. He's a masterful songwriter. And I'm always trying to write. A Cole Porter song. That's like what I'm trying to do as a songwriter. Uh, sometimes it comes out as more of a,
Rae Leigh: A Kate Schutt
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Sometimes it comes out as more of a cage sometimes and other Kate shot song.
And other times it comes out as this thing that I'm trying to write, which is a last, like if you heard it and you didn't have any context, you would think it was sort of like a lost jazz standard.
So that's what I'm trying to do. So I would have to say that. And then I don't know who the co-writer would be, but I definitely know who the song would be for.
I would definitely love to write a song for Tina Turner. That would be amazing. I don't know. who I'd pick as my co-writer because I don't, I, I don't want it to be like some giant huge pop hit, like simply the best. That's amazing too, but like, I don't know if you've ever heard that Herbie Hancock record where she sang a song, a Joni Mitchell song on it? It's called the album's called The river, I think.
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Kate Schutt: but she does that Joni Mitchell song and man, she just kills it. And I always was like, who is going to go? And like present to her, this idea of doing like, jazz inflected, kind of a handful of great songs, like a Rick Rubin that like, like he did with Johnny
Cash, like, like, uh, Like a kind of late in late career, like get 10 or 12 amazing songs, get just shit, hot musicians, and do a whole record like that. But I think those days are over. I don't think that's going to happen, but someone should have done it. And I would like to do that.
Rae Leigh: know. That's it? The world is changing. Isn't it? But at the same time, w everything is always influenced and hopefully it's evolving and it's only
ever getting better. I hope the idea is not to get worse. But sometimes we have to try bad ideas to learn that's what they are bad ideas.
Sometimes you don't.
Yeah. Sometimes you don't know that it's a bad idea until you do it. And, that's where the hindsight comes in.
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
I'm a big proponent of like, sometimes you just have to write, you just have to write the bad song. The song is there to be written. You got to just write it, get it out,
Rae Leigh: Uh, did you learn from pat Patterson at Beau Berkeley? Cause that's one of his big pieces
Kate Schutt: No, I was not in the songwriting. I was in the jazz guitar, jazz performance division.
So I didn't know any songwriters at Berkeley. I didn't even know. I don't think I even knew there was a song writing department. So I was just so focused on jazz and jazz guitar, performance.
That was, I was just, I don't, I consequently had like no friends from that time period. Cause I was just like shedding in the practice room all the time. And
I have a handful of friends, but that's it.
Rae Leigh: College is a time to kind of make friends. Like I have a biomedical science degree and it was purely because I, I wanted to help people. I wanted to become a doctor because I thought that's what you do. If you want to help people. And honestly, I, yeah, I could say I worked harder, but at the same time, the only real thing I got out of it was
Kate Schutt: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: I finished the degree, I'd dividend anything with it, really
Kate Schutt: no, that is a that's
Rae Leigh: learning to learn as good, but yeah.
Kate Schutt: Yeah, that's a definite that's definitely regret in my, at my time. there was that I was practicing so much. I, I really only know like four or five people, but that's, I didn't have that at Harvard. I had teammates, had 26 teams, 26 girls, times two.
So like I have plenty of
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Kate Schutt: in that world, so Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Crazy. And I can just tell how focused you were and that's, I think that's admirable as well. And
Kate Schutt: yeah, it was survival, basically. Yeah. It is what it
Rae Leigh: I don't know what I'm doing here. Yeah, no, that's really cool.
Well, that's pretty much most of my official questions. Is there anything else you would like to share about your songwriting life or your
music life or what you're doing this year?
Kate Schutt: well, Yeah.
I One thing that I'm really kind of thinking about besides stress plus rest equals growth is I think I'm thinking a lot and just dialing really getting into presence and using. So I have created this whole mantra for myself, like presence, not perfection because. Because it really came about because I am always very disciplined about my practicing and just sort of felt over the last couple of years, that the amount of time that I was working on my guitar playing and, sort of wasn't producing the results that it should. And I'm putting some air quotes around should uh, And I was sort of frustrated by that.
And I recently got into, I'd say in the last three years, got into Zen Buddhism and started studying with a teacher and a Tsonga and all that kind of stuff. And so I was having a meet, having a meeting with my teacher one day and she suggested that instead of counting the hours that I was practicing, I should count how present I was.
And like how present are you when you're there? And, obviously she was right. Like, I was not very present. I was stressing about this, that, and the other thing. And always thinking 10 steps ahead or regretting something that I hadn't done or how come, I don't know this better. Oh, yeah. I've got to learn these seven jazz standards that I still don't know yet. That kind of thing. So. So I took her advice and I started just making sure that every time I was in the practice room, I was really present and I stopped measuring everything else. And I really felt like over, since then my playing has gotten exponentially better. And yeah. And so then, and then I just took that into the stage, like I, cause I work on my set and performance a lot and. What I realized is that, I'm not that interested. I'm not a perfectionist, like I'm not a person who thinks like it has to be, but, I
do want it to go the way I decided I wanted it to go.
And, but, I realized that being present with my audience is way more important than getting it right.
And so now that's
Rae Leigh: that connection.
Kate Schutt: Yes exactly. It's exactly what you said. It's the connection. And, but you have to be, you're a performer, you can hide, you can be performing and still be hiding emotionally.
Rae Leigh: Oh, yeah. That's like literally one of the first songs I wrote, It starts with, it literally starts with hiding in the spotlight. So no one can see the
darkness inside of me. That's the lyrics of one of my
Kate Schutt: There you go.
Rae Leigh: released. So like, I'm like, this is what I'm doing guys. And it's probably one of the most vulnerable lyrics I've ever written.
But it's the truth. it cause it's the truth. And that's what I'm always seeking is the truth in lyrics. And sometimes like when I wrote that and released it, it took me six months to realize what I'd actually done. And then I was so I was like, oh my gosh. Cause that was one of the there's ones that literally came out randomly and then put it on Facebook to share with my friends and then someone produced it.
Like with an awake and then it was like released within two months. And so like I'm doing radio, right? Oh, it's a beautiful song, blah, blah, blah. What's it about? And I'm like, Aw, man, I don't know. No, didn't know. But it is, it's, it is a way to help. But that's, for me, I'm a perfectionist and I know that I was a control freak, definitely a symptom of my PTSD.
But having children definitely. Knocked the shit out of that one. And it also like going to Nashville and stuff and just seeing how people work together. I think the fear of not being good enough and always knowing that it was never going to be perfect, stopped me from performing. So I was a late performer.
I didn't start performing until I was 31. But I'd been writing in my bedroom, my entire life playing piano and guitar. And like, that's all I ever did was it was a personal thing, but yeah, it was like Once I realized that it's got nothing to do. Like live music is meant to have mistakes because that's what makes it live, and not stressing or being afraid of like end.
If I went on stage somewhere else on TV or something, and I'm majorly screwed up, I was still going to have to go home and cook dinner for my
Kate Schutt: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: and took them. Talk to them and tuck them into bed. I still going to be a normal mom at home. They're not going to judge me by how much I messed up.
And so I think that kind of gave me the confidence of like, I shouldn't let the fear of something going wrong or being ashamed of not being good enough. Stop me from potentially reaching and sharing, like what you're doing, sharing songs that could really help people. And then when that starts to happen, it gives you more confidence.
But yeah, it is a hard thing to get over. And I think a lot of people have that fear of, not being good enough or having mistakes. And you could like, you've done a ton of practice. You could do that for the rest of your life. And if you don't have that ability to be present and connect with the audience since then, what are you doing at
Kate Schutt: right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I think it comes down to being a, human first always for
Rae Leigh: That's okay. Actually, that's better than okay.
Kate Schutt: so
Rae Leigh: that's what you're meant to be.
Kate Schutt: what you are. Yeah. Like,
Rae Leigh: That's what you are.
Kate Schutt: I don't really care how many gray, how fast you can play your guitar and how many notes you can play. Like, can you talk to me?
Can you, can we have a, conversation? Are you there when we're having a conversation? Like,
for me, that was
Rae Leigh: Are you listening?
Kate Schutt: Yeah. exactly.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And it's funny how so many times people aren't
listening, like they think they are, but they're really
just listening and then they're reflecting on themselves. And that also gave me confidence to, I realized like in my head I'm like 99% of what people think about me is
all a reflection on themselves because no one knows me well enough to be able to make a personal
judgment. So how can, like I did modeling and acting for quite a while and doing that stuff, you have to go and audition. And so many people drop out of trying to do that because they get so modified by being rejected every single time. They're not, they don't fit the role. And for me, it was like they've spending like 10, 15 minutes, maybe looking at me, looking at my experience and then listening to me talk, it's not personal.
How could it be? Because they don't, they don't know who I am. They just, they're looking for a particular person with a particular thing and you either have it or you don't, and it's not personal. It's just, they're looking for something. And until they find it, that's it,
Kate Schutt: right. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: But that's something that not everyone can get over.
Like they can't see that it takes, I think it takes experience and time to say that
Kate Schutt: there's a is a great spiritual person. And then Byron,
Katie,
and she has a little formulation. that's like there's three types of business in the world, my business. God's business And that other person's other PR other people's business. And, suffering happens when I'm
in God's business or the other
person's business.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. I like that. I'm writing that down.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. It's, it's so reflective of what you said. It's like I'm suffering when I'm sitting here in my head thinking they rejected me because whatever,
But that's because I'm thinking about them and I'm in their business.
Rae Leigh: yeah, that's the business. And just as much as they can't know you personally, you can't know them personally either. And we, I think that's a big part of our culture and I don't fully understand it, but we spend so much energy and time trying to work out what other
people are thinking. And in particular what they are thinking about us
and actually the reality is I just, I've just heard the belief now, and this is just my beliefs so that I can just continue doing what I'm doing is it was like, no, one's really thinking about me.
No one cares enough.
Kate Schutt: No, exactly.
Rae Leigh: And if they are it's actually, even if they are, it's got nothing to do with me. Because again, like I said, so unless it's like my husband or my children.
Kate Schutt: Right,
Rae Leigh: Or someone who spends enough time with me to know who I am. Yeah. How could they possibly know? And if they really care to me and they wanted to get to know me, they would ask the questions rather than making the assumptions or the beliefs in their head.
But yeah we can spend a lot of our energy and time in, in those God's business or other people's business. You're right. And it I think it's a
distractor.
Kate Schutt: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: Yeah, it's a massive distracter from, like you said, at the start of the podcast, we're here on this globe to, to be who we are and make an impact before we go.
And it's such a quick moment that we are on this planet and we get to choose how we do it. And I believe that everyone has the power to be massively influential and beneficial to. Out the world. But only if you are present in your own business
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: and and it can be a good procrastination tool to think about God's business or other people's business,
Kate Schutt: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: but that's like such a date and whole nother podcast.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. That's probably like you got to start a whole nother podcast. Just Like a whole
Rae Leigh: Just we could go on all about
Kate Schutt: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: But this is what, this is, what we do as songwriters is we actually, we're free to express ourselves and our beliefs and our thoughts in our music. And.
And people can take it or leave it. It's not really a debate. It's just, this is what I'm feeling right now in this experience, or this is what I've seen
in the experiences of people around me.
And this is my interpretation of my life here. And I think that's what I love. And you've done
that. Uh, you're a great example of that. And I think that's beautiful and I love it when I meet other songwriters, like you, who are doing that, take what you're experiencing and share that because that's then going to influence other people around you long after you go on as well.
And that's the beauty of music is that it's a creation. It's a piece of art that will continue to float through the world for a very long time.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. I love that hearing you say that it reminds me of one of my biggest heroes is Vincent van Gogh because, during his lifetime. The only, he was supported by his brother, his brother sent him money. He was thought of as sort of crazy guy And no one really took him seriously.
It didn't sell as far as I can remember, the nothing was basically sold during his lifetime,
but you read his letters to his brother and it's like,
man, he's just has the Schwab. Diviv about. Art is really, is it really a magnificent read to read what he writes to his brother? And he's struggling, he's poor.
He doesn't have any money. He doesn't have enough money for supplies.
And, he feels bad
Rae Leigh: starving artists.
Kate Schutt: Yeah. And yet, imagine if his brother didn't hadn't support. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And yet we are so obsessed. Aren't
Kate Schutt: Great.
Rae Leigh: like? Yeah. I'm
Kate Schutt: do it on your own. Do it on your own?
Rae Leigh: it? Nah, no way. I'm so over there I'm like, I am a lot for
help and collaboration with anyone like seriously. I know I can not do it with just about anything on my own. I CA honestly, sometimes my husband has to put me in the shower.That's like, sometimes I need that kick in the butt. And that's, but that's okay. Like we, we
need each other men, like we really do And that's why I love arts because arts is, it connects us and it lasts longer than anything else. In the hearts of. Of the people around you and the people that are influenced it by it.
So, yeah, no, I'm really excited to share this and I'm going to put all of your links and all the ways that people can find you and find the people that we've talked about as well into the description of the podcast, which will go everywhere. And then there'll also be a blog on the website, similar to tris.com with the description, as well as all the links and things as well.
So people will be able to find anything that we've talked about. But yeah, I just thank you so much for being so open and sharing your experiences and your story. It is very vulnerable, but I know how helpful it can be for people going through the same thing. And you've been very brave. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Kate Schutt: well, thank you. And thanks for such great questions and, being willing To go there with me. I really, really appreciate it. It's a pleasure.
Rae Leigh: Oh, absolute pleasure. I love it.
Kate Schutt: All right. Yeah. Yeah. You too.
