#141 Lucy & La Mer
Nature loving Californian singer songwriter Lucy loves to build community and has done more for the music community in her area and helping run an online community that support each other with not just songwriting but also mental health. She has helped put together festivals in the past that support artists in the LGBTQ community and empowering others to be the best of who they are.
With a few hits and commercial synced songs you may recognise her music and we expect even more amazing music to flow from this beautiful artist who also has the hottest tips on best coffee in LA, which makes her one of our best friends.
Connect with Lucy:
Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a very special Songwriter tryst with Lucy and La Mer. How are you Lucy?
Lucy & La Mer: I'm doing great today. How are you doing?
Rae Leigh: I'm all right. A bit tired, like I said,
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: I am, I'm really excited to have you on the show and get to know you. I usually start all these podcasts by getting the artists, which is you today in your own words. Tell me a little bit about who you are and where you come from.
Lucy & La Mer: I am, Lucila forge a California raised singer song writer. and I will say I really love nature lately. I have been all about nature and I just love Building community. That's something that's really important to me.
Rae Leigh: yeah. Cool. And the nature part, what have you been getting into lately? Are you a rainforest person or a beach person?
Lucy & La Mer: I am so close, but so far from the beach, cause I'm in Los Angeles, but I'm on the other side of Los Angeles. So I've been exploring the echo park lake, which is a very, it's not a lake. It's a. But
Rae Leigh: okay.
Lucy & La Mer: big problem and so I've been exploring that every day, just making sure I get out of my apartment and go and look at different types of plants and try and find a different type of bird every day.
It's just kind of been given me something new, like a very different inspiration that was, Yeah.
I'm used to,
Rae Leigh: I find nature very inspirational and always teaches me something new, which is weird because, but yeah, it's very grounding. Isn't it.
Lucy & La Mer: yeah.
Rae Leigh: And tell me more about this building communities. What, what does that mean for you?
Lucy & La Mer: Community like right now, my focus is my online community, really connecting, not just with other songwriters, but other people who are experiencing the same things,
Rae Leigh: Hmm.
Lucy & La Mer: and feeling, you know, similar things. And for me, you? know, I talk a lot about mental health and I hadn't realized how powerful it was to talk about it because. I made so many online friends who experienced the same things and it just, it's so nice to have an online community, especially the last couple of years.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And what a relief it is when, like we talk about mental health a lot on this podcast, probably because of me, because I have such an extensive mental health history.
What a relief it is when you finally say, you know, something's bothering you or something, that's been on your mind for ages, and you've not told anyone, and then you share it and someone else goes, oh, me too.
How good does that feel?
Lucy & La Mer: Oh, it's so it's so affirming to know it's not just you, because so many times. Even if it's, you know, a tiny thing, if it's a little anxiety you're experiencing because of the situation, just hear someone else say, oh, you know what? I had that same feeling in a different situation, but I totally, I totally get that And I totally get how isolating it could feel?
or stressful. It can feel. It's really empowering.
Rae Leigh: So much healing just in that. And, and yeah, validating that we're not crazy. We're just so human and we all experience things differently. a deep core level. We actually experienced suffering and pain in a very similar way as well. And there shouldn't be any shame around it, which yeah. Is, is beautiful to, um, create community in a safe space where people can talk about that.
Um, that's absolutely
Lucy & La Mer: And it's so
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Lucy & La Mer: sorry. I was just going to say, and it's so
it's so crazy that we have such an expectation
too. The reason we feel crazy when we do struggle with mental health is just this huge expectation we have of being happy all the time. And, you know, we're just obsessed with this idea of having the perfect life where you're never happy, or you're never sad, or you're never stressed.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Lucy & La Mer: It's just very unrealistic. And yet
that's the default,
Rae Leigh: yes, so unrealistic and it's, it's only via talking about it with other people that we, it comes out of our head and we're like, why on earth? Do we even, why do we have that expectation on ourselves? Like where does it come from? Because when we say it out loud, it sounds absolutely ridiculous. Of course we're not supposed to be happy all the time or perfect all the time.
It's like, uh, Yeah, we feel that I think everyone feels that pressure and we'll deal with it in different ways. Um, but it also reminds us that we need each other. No, we need that community and we need connection. And when you're feeling stressed and struggling with mental health, you do feel really isolated in those emotions.
And it can be really hard to find people who you can talk to
about it, which is why we pay loads of money to
psychologists. And so, yeah. Gotcha.
Lucy & La Mer: oh, totally worth
Rae Leigh: really? Yeah, exactly. Just so that we can feel sane now. That's really cool. So tell me about your songwriting journey. How did you get into something?
Lucy & La Mer: um, my song writing journey. I realized as soon as I could write like a very young kid and about second grade, I was already writing poems and trying to write songs and trying to, I would like doodle and try and write music, but of course just complete jibberish. Wasn't really writing much at all, but I just loved it.
And I, I remember that just like a childhood memory, but I never pursued it until after school. Uh, I actually wanted to study psychology and become a therapist. I was very interested in that world, but I felt very stuck. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't passionate about it, but I liked it. And then I found myself starting to play cover songs, just, you know, with the three chords I knew and felt really inspired by that and thought, well, maybe I.
Maybe I could try to write a song again, like I did when I was a kid and then I just kinda stopped once I started. And that was, you know, maybe eight years, eight years ago. Uh,
Rae Leigh: Wow.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. and I just found it so therapeutic and fun, you know, I was able to be, I was able to explore a part of my personality that I don't necessarily show otherwise I'm a fairly quiet person.
But then when I get up on stage and perform one of my songs, I'm kind of like, well, it's all in the song. Here's all my feelings, here's everything I'm going through. And you're going to hear exactly how I feel about
it. And it's great. Yeah.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: How do you feel about being so vulnerable with your music and your art? Um, when you're such a reserved person naturally, what, what's your motivation behind that?
Lucy & La Mer: I'm just, I'm so grateful that I allow myself to do it. I think it's, it just came very naturally, and there wasn't much resistance to doing it, which is strange because I would never audition for a play as a kid, or, you know, try to sing a solo in a choir, anything like that?
But for some reason, when I started writing songs, I was just like, oh, I need to, somebody needs to hear this.
Even if it's just a bunch of strangers at the local open mic, I'm just, I got to go sing this. And it just, Yeah. it was just all of a sudden and it kind of came out of nowhere, but I felt so free from it that I was just like, this is what I'm pursuing. If I can make a career out of this, which I, I think I can, you know, every day is different.
Every day is different, but. Um, I was like this, this, is it. I think I found it.
Rae Leigh: amazing. And I loved that. Flick the switch, you know, you just had to do it for whoever it is that needs to hear it. I think I had something very similar happened to me and yeah, I would never like sing in public Uh, fees. They get no way. I always wrote there and I relate to like, just loving writing, but never pursuing it because I was dyslexic.
So like, I love to write, but I was such a bad speller. I just got criticized all the time by my teachers, like English was the hottest subject. And so the idea of someone wanting to be a songwriter or a poet or. Be a writer who is constantly being criticized. I just thought it was never going to happen.
You know, it's like focusing on your strengths. They say, and she's like, well, english was not one of my strengths,
Okay. So tell me, tell me what that journey was like. Like how did you work out that you could be an artist and you weren't going to be a therapist anymore?
Lucy & La Mer: I found myself studying. Therapy and thinking it was interesting. And then I actually spoke with one of my professors about, pursuing the PhD and what that would look like. And they were so kind, and they were basically just like, I can tell you, you want to do this, but you don't love it.
You know? And it was just kind of like, I was very much an, a student I always had to have, a good grade and approval from a teacher and.
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Lucy & La Mer: liked the academic world because I had a lot of validation
Rae Leigh: Hm.
Lucy & La Mer: and being a creative, really, to be honest, I still miss that validation very much because when you write a song, I mean, it's not like you get an, a, uh, maybe it gets on the radio and then you're like, okay, this must be somewhat relatable.
Or a lot of people like it, but not everyone, you know, it's like, And that's beautiful that you can't judge art in that way, but it's also very hard as a, just this is something I'm going through at the moment, just knowing, you know, which songs are good, which song should I record?
I,
Rae Leigh: that's such a hard one.
Lucy & La Mer: Right?
Rae Leigh: How does anyone work that out?
I don't
know. I'm still trying to work that out.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. I have no idea. I think, you know. larger artists will of course have like a team of people that tell them, okay, these are the songs. They'd go on the album, but that's all marketing, you know, it's a whole different perspective on, uh, on the, the craft of the song.
Rae Leigh: Which is hard.
Lucy & La Mer: yeah.
Oh, so hard, so
hard.
But anyways, I was talking to my professor and they, they recommended, you know, just let yourself be a little more curious and explore.
Um, Explore the idea of being in school, you know, another six or seven years and think, you know, you might want to try something else and it doesn't have to be forever, but maybe just take a little break from school or do a smaller degree, like a one or two year, um, like a master program, something like that.
And I was, I was So upset. I was like insulted that they would say I could do something other than. Academia. Um, but at the same time, I was just very stressed out because I was in school studying so much and I just started picking up my guitar more, started playing it longer. Um, I was going through a lot of emotional up and downs with losing family members and just a lot going on and I needed an app.
And I had my guitar and there was also a piano on campus. And I started going into this little piano room after all my classes at the end of the day and playing. And I was just like, you know what? I do know that some people do this full-time, this is what they study. This is what they get to do for work.
And so it just started there and I, and I followed it.
Rae Leigh: Wow. So that little piano room at
your university.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. A magical little room. Um, yeah, I, I want to go back and visit and see if it's
still there. It was just like an escape.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: I think any room with a piano in it just is magical. And I don't know why, like I started on the piano when I was very young and it was my escapism. Like that was where I went to when I needed to get stuff out. And I don't don't know why, but like, it just. Yeah, I think piano was my first real love my first true love.
It's just, yeah, it's that, that instrument for me that I can let it all out. Whereas guitar is a convenient instrument that is still really cool, and it has a completely different vibe to it. Um, but if I'm feeling really
emotional, I always get
back to the piano.
Lucy & La Mer: oh yeah. I find that the piano just has, I don't know if it's the reverb of the sound or. The physicality of pushing down the keys. Um, that's so emotional, but I find that when I write on piano, it's always a valid or really intense, uh, you know, just stakes are high, whatever I'm running on the valid you're, you're going to feel all the fields with me.
And then on guitar, I feel, I don't know if you feel this way, but it's more, it's almost more practical. It's like, okay, I'm going to do these chords. And then I'm going to go with these chords
and then I'll change up the rhythm
and we'll see
what.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And it's, it is easier to play around with the rhythm on a guitar I find. Um, and then picking up like an electric guitar is like a whole nother field and yeah, I mean, and that's a beautiful thing about instruments. So you get to just experiment and play around if you, if you have that natural ability to, you know, shift between instruments.
Um, but yeah, no, that's really cool. So what was your journey like when you decided to start exploring. You know, how did you
start your business as an, as an
artist?
Lucy & La Mer: I, well, I moved to Los Angeles, which was big because as a Californian, uh, I don't see Los Angeles as being California. I see it as this. This is where everyone that's not from California goes. And you know, there's a lot of transplants here from other cities all over the world. And it's a really great city, but it is a very busy,
um, hustle energy.
Everyone's you know, trying to get somewhere traffic's always bad because people are just out and trying to reach their dreams constantly. And it was definitely a, I was just saying it was a hard transition.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Okay.
Lucy & La Mer: don't know if I've
still
adjusted to it. And I've
Rae Leigh: How long
Lucy & La Mer: while.
Rae Leigh: there? How long have you been in LA?
Lucy & La Mer: I've been here eight years. Which is a very long time to still feel a little, like it's not your home, you know, but I think, I think a lot of people feel that way. Um, when you moved to a big city and I grew up, you know, on dirt roads with chickens and like far outside of
town, no local grocery stores, or you did too.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Farm with chickens and dogs and birds. And we mix between having goats and
cattle and, uh, Yeah,
all sorts of different animals, but
Lucy & La Mer: That's great. It goes to the best. We just had one
goat, but
Rae Leigh: Well, I'll go. It used to always get its head stuck in the fence. That's the one thing I kind of remember is constantly having to go down to the back fence and get his, like, get his horns out.
I
don't know. I think we had a really stupid
goat.
Lucy & La Mer: yeah, and it just kept walking into the
phone.
Rae Leigh: It just, I don't know what I was
going.
Lucy & La Mer: everything. They just eat everything. Like, I remember I would have to go feed her before school and she would just nibble at my clothes. Like she would try and eat my shirt while I was feeding her. And it was very stressful.
Rae Leigh: Oh, I bet. Yeah. Country life. It's a blessing, but also, yeah. A curse. Like I felt, I felt very like a fish out of water in the country. I think being a creative in, in a country town for me, where I came from, it was very old, just like everyone was FAMAS everyone kind of, you know, the girls had got married at 18 and had babies by the time they were 20 and started a family.
And like the boys all became tradies or played football or, you know what I mean? And like being a creative and in a small town, I felt, I just felt crazy. Yeah. Like a misfit, massive misfit. Um, and it wasn't until I met this, I went to the city and I started studying and I met at a creative act as models, musicians that I just started to feel like, huh?
Maybe I'm not a newsfeed. Maybe I'm just creative. And I didn't
have that community. Like we talked about earlier.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. Oh, definitely. So it was more liberating for you to move to a
city.
Rae Leigh: Um, in some ways, yeah, I definitely still love like the country, like, cause I grew up in the river and I loved going for my runs, you know, along the river and in nature and stuff. But, um, there was also that element of being around other people that had similar dreams to me and like I still, I live in regional Australia now, but there is, I've had to work hard to kind of find those other creative people and like find that community.
Whereas I think in the city it's a little bit more
concentrated.
Lucy & La Mer: I
see.
Rae Leigh: What about you? Did you, how have you found your community?
Lucy & La Mer: took a while. I actually found the queer community I'm part of the queer community. So that was kind of great to have that little, um, little community. It wasn't a huge thing in the neighborhood that I'm at, but just to have like a small group that meets up, like once a month, um, was good. But the, I found that the bands and the musicians that I was meeting, and this was for years, right.
When I moved. That everyone was so competitive that it was extremely hard to make genuine
friends.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Lucy & La Mer: was just, Yeah. just like a very cliquey, uh, music scene.
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Lucy & La Mer: And that was hard, but I feel that I feel that it's
getting
better.
Rae Leigh: Cause that that is something I think a lot of artistic people and musicians. I struggle with the competition in quotation marks, because I really hate that kind of word. But how, how did you approach that side of the industry when you kind of
experienced it
early
on?
Lucy & La Mer: I was constantly pushing for a community. I was always, so my shows instead of having shows where you book your band and then the bill is completely separate. I mean, the venues here, we'll book, you know, individual bands. They won't book a bill necessarily on the small indie level. So you're playing sometimes I would be playing after.
Like a rap artist and then a folk singer would come up after B and then a rock band. And so your audience is coming and then they're leaving. And the other bands, audiences are coming and leaving just for their set. So you're not creating any community for the evening. Um, and it just, I felt so disconnected.
So I would try and contact other similar like-minded bands and say, Hey, we could do this together. And it'll be even more fun because it'll be less work for both of us.
Rae Leigh: right.
Lucy & La Mer: And we can create like a scene that. way, like a good place for people to go And, you know, recognize people in the audience.
Rae Leigh: Hmm. I love that. And, and how did
that go for you?
Lucy & La Mer: It took awhile, but we got
there. I started doing the love as gay festival in Los Angeles, which is, uh, like a, a concert, a benefit concert
Rae Leigh: Okay.
Lucy & La Mer: for the LA LGBT center. So that was great because. It was easy to just say, Okay.
I'm looking for LGBT lead singers or band members who want to be a part of, kind of like a mini festival and local artists and vendors would set up outside the venue.
And we could just create this space where people started to recognize each other and felt comfortable because they all had something in common already showing up to the concert.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. So just kind of inspired people to chat more.
Showing up showing face and then
leaving
Rae Leigh: I think that's awesome. Yeah. And it's exactly right, because you want to be around other musicians that have a similar, I guess, message and golfer for you. And you're going to. out and appeal to the same audience. And so yeah, that community in that scene will hopefully grow just by word of mouth, you know, and by everyone feeling a part of something bigger than themselves, um, which I think we all need, we all like, that's another part of like, we need that sense of belonging and, um, yeah, I think that's absolutely beautiful.
So tell me a little bit more about the, the message behind your music and your songs and, and what it is
you want people to get out of it when they hear your voice.
Lucy & La Mer: my songs, a lot of them are very upbeat folk pop songs. Kind of just trying to raise your good vibes and, uh, you know, like Roadtrip music, when you turn on music in the car and you just want to like, feel it, feel good and kind of cruise. Um, and then I also have some more like sad songs about, you know, how I struggle with certain things or how a break affected me.
Um, but I've kind of, I've gone from my first record was. Acoustic instruments, whatever we found around this home studio to make sounds with very organic, uh, folky, folky music. And then I started working with more and more producers around LA and then I'd get these big pop producer checks. We're fun and marketable, but also kind of lost that very authentic, um, organic feel.
And so I've had some fans from the very beginning who are awesome and just loved both, but it's definitely been a transformation and a lot of artists.
This happens with, because we don't, if we don't know how to produce our own music and that we start using different producers and we're doing this independent thing.
And so you're not consistently working with the same people, your sound just changes and evolves. And you know, sometimes it goes backwards. Sometimes it stays where it's at, but,
um,
Rae Leigh: I, I struggled with this and like, I mean, you've been doing it for eight years and I'm still like, I've only been doing it for about two
years and I'm still dating producers. I don't know if you went
through that experience,
Lucy & La Mer: dating,
producing.
Rae Leigh: I feel like that's what I'm doing. Right?
Lucy & La Mer: wait, hold on. It.
Rae Leigh: I'm polyamorous with my, um, my producers
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: will have multiple producers on the go, the ones
Lucy & La Mer: That's okay.
Rae Leigh: that.
Lucy & La Mer: I
think.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, well, it is, but there is that whole like, um, I guess imposter syndrome of that, like that sound that everyone wants you to know exactly who you are and what you sound like and what you should be a straightaway, but like,
as soon as you like, well,
I think part of the fun of it is experimenting with different people and finding new sounds and new vibes.
And like the song is still going to be that song. Whether it works out or it doesn't work out. Like you get to do another one. Like it doesn't, you know, I feel like, um, so you release a song. Yeah. It's it does. Okay. Or whatever, but like, there's always, always opportunity to get better. Right. And there's always an opportunity to work with someone else who might be able to do something different and cool.
And yeah, I mean, I find it hard, especially with like, you know, Spotify wants you to be specific sound and if you change too much, then. Get too confused. And like, you might grow an audience in one genre, but then if you
change too much, like there's a fear of losing them. And it's like, well, I'm just want to be me and like create an experiment and let people like, share where I'm at with any given song at any given time.
And it might be really different from what I've done. And it might be really different to the next one, but it's like
that's to me, that's human.
Lucy & La Mer: absolutely.
Yeah, but it's such a struggle.
Yeah. It's, It's, so hard. I've even
had, you know, past managers say let's do two artists names, let's just do your name, let's see the fours. And then that. can be your, your folk music. And then your pop music can be under Lucy in the mirror.
Rae Leigh: I've
Lucy & La Mer: And I was like, we're not that far
apart,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Lucy & La Mer: you know?
And
Rae Leigh: I've seen other people do that to like change their names because they think their songs are too different. And then I've listened to the both artists, you know, in quotation marks the different
names. And I'm like, it's the same person.
What are you doing?
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. Well, it's because we all have such unique voices and, you know, unique writing styles. And I even, like, I put this out to my audience because I was like, you guys, it's so hard to find a label. I was just, I'm very Frank with my fans. I'm just like, I'm still independent. Um, it's hard to find the label cause they want you to have one consistent sound and they only want to market that sound.
And they're going to take down all my past music and put out this new sound that they want to promote because they only want you to have one sound. And I had a few fans message me in there. That doesn't make any sense because it's you like, as long as it's the same person. and the same name, it's so frustrating because I see both sides.
I see the business side of
when you want to market a product, which would be the singer, unfortunately, in this case, you know, you want to know What you're marketing and you want to know what, where you can market to. And I don't know. It's so hard
on the artist side.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And I think for me a big part of when I say my brand, like again, it's that's, um, industry talk, but when I think about my brand, a big part of my brand is mental health and a big part of mental health is accepting all emotions in all aspects of humanity and who we are as human beings. So then how do you put that in a
box?
The whole point
is to not be in a box.
Lucy & La Mer: right. Yeah, I do think, I do think it's changing though, because I feel like there are so many options.
That aren't controlled by major labels who tell them they can only have one sound and it's, it's more common to see artists having a range of sound and
Shandra.
Rae Leigh: And it's beautiful. And the reality is you can have like, and you'll probably a perfect example of this. You can have one song that, you know, goes and does its own thing in the world. And, and then you can still have all these other songs and they're connected to each other, but because of the way the world is, it's not like you have to have it on a physical CD and an album and they have to all be coherently, you know, set up as a project.
And I mean, I know people are still doing that, but it's also a world where you can just release a single and it can be what it is in its tiny little pocket of that project. And then you can just let it free and move on to the next thing. And
it can be.
Lucy & La Mer: Totally.
Rae Leigh: but the online world that's so cool. What about collaborations?
You talked a little bit about that earlier, but have you done much like co-writing I saw that you've done, um, uh, it's not a phase, you know, you collaborated with another artist on that song. Um, but what about just
co-writing and collaborating and what's that
process been like for you?
Lucy & La Mer: I love co-writing I've really started correcting just the last couple of years, so much more. Because before it was more like you meet a song writer. and I was like, oh, let's get coffee. Or let's write a song together. and I found that those were great ways to build your music community, but nothing really happened with the songs.
Um, it was just kind of like a practice, which is, it's always good to practice, but recently I've been more, uh, more in the professional world of co-writing where there's a purpose or there's a agenda, um, where they, you know, there's a prompt involved sometimes, or. There's, you know, there's an artist who needs to music.
And so you're writing from the perspective of that artist. And I really enjoy it. I really love writing for other artists. Just as much as I like writing for myself. I think it gives it a nice bit of space, you?
know? So I'm not constantly like, what's my next song. What's my next
song. It's not good enough.
You know?
Rae Leigh:
You can just be creative for the sake of being creative. I think that's important to keep that aspect. It's hard to sometimes just be an artist and the creative person when you're independent. You've always got to have like that business brain on as well. And it can
be nice to just be the creative
one for me.
Lucy & La Mer: definitely. Yeah. The business brain is it's a whole, it's a whole separate part of your brain then the creative than the creative side. So like physically, and it's. It's hard. I've just listened to another podcast that actually said to divide your day, like your, to do's for the day into sections of creative and more logical things like emails and business type things so that you will actually get them done
Rae Leigh: that's good. That's probably good advice.
Lucy & La Mer: over it.
Yeah. Cause I'll go, I'll do a co-write then I'll be like, oh, I have to do all these emails. And then, oh, I have a gig. And then, oh, now I got to go promote this other thing.
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Lucy & La Mer: It's just different, different strengths.
Rae Leigh: You said you haven't manager, is that still in play?
Lucy & La Mer: I don't at the moment I've had past managers.
Rae Leigh: And with the management side of things, when they were in play, I mean, for me, I guess I've always, hoped that the management would help take away some of those logical tasks. And so that I can be more in my element of just being the artist. What was that experience like?
Lucy & La Mer: I would say. I mean, yes, to an extent, I've had managers who will book gigs, or just kind of find random opportunities. But as an indie artist, I don't think we ever stop working really hard for ourselves and doing most of the work cause no one is going to care about your music. As much as you do, even a manager who thinks you're great and thinks you're so cool.
And there's so much potential and so much to do. They still have other artists, most of the time, at least a couple other artists, unless you're working for like an independent, person,
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Lucy & La Mer: but it's still, I found that a lot of times I would, I would be waiting on a manager thinking, oh, I bet they're taking care of this.
Or, oh, they'll do all that for me. But again, there's a business side of things where it's like, well, no, You're a business. I'm a business as this artist and songwriter and a manager is technically an employee because I'm paying them a percentage of my income to work for me. And it takes a lot of leadership skills and a lot of
communication
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Lucy & La Mer: of things.
I, Yeah.
a lot of things I didn't learn in school
that you just, you just gotta learn in the real world.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I think I'm really lucky cause I married a
project manager and um,
Lucy & La Mer: Well done.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, I, I think he does. He believes in me more than I believed in myself. And he's definitely been one of the biggest reasons I even started doing this because. I think everyone needs someone to believe in them to say, you can do this, you know, to give you the confidence to actually go and give it a try.
But yeah, it's, um, it does enable me to do more of this stuff, you know, like the podcasting and the songwriting, and just be the creative ideas person, um, and someone else who gets to take care of the emails and stuff, but, um,
Lucy & La Mer: That's great.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I'm not telling everyone to go and marry someone who you think would be a good manager, but
you know, there needs to be a lot of other things that go into play there as
well.
But, um,
Lucy & La Mer: It sounds like a good
balance. Good balance
was important.
Rae Leigh: What would you say the best advice is that you've ever been given in this to.
Lucy & La Mer: There's a lot of bad
advice.
Rae Leigh: You can start there. Cause that was going to be my next question. So I was going to say what's the worst invested by
yeah.
Lucy & La Mer: unfortunately that's where my brain went. Um, just thinking of.
Like say, say yes to everything. When you're starting out, people will tell you to say, say yes to every show, say yes, to have the opportunity because you never know. Right. And, and it's like, Yeah. true. It's good to stay open. But if you're saying yes to playing 10 shows in a couple of months, and you're not actually getting paid for those shows, and you're trying to pull people for all of those shows to come see you and build a room.
You can't say yes to everything. It's good to be. It's good to be picky about, about what you're doing, even if you're just starting out. Even if you're new to music, I'm like, yes, go play all the open mics, get to a point where you're comfortable and you know, like you can get up on a stage and play a song and it's going to be okay.
But once you get to that point, you know, it's okay to be discerning. Um, cause you will start getting all these emails. I'm I get so many emails every day for, you know, come be a part of this music thing or come play our show. Um, Hey, can you do this? And, there's a lot of favors as well, which sometimes I'm happy to do if it's like a close friend or someone, , who's been, you know, helpful to me in the past, but there's a lot of people who.
Have just always taken advantage of musicians and artists, because we don't always value ourselves or put our worth where it really needs to be.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. They want to
pay you with
exposure.
Lucy & La Mer: yes, exactly. And they, they will do that for as long as you allow
them.
Rae Leigh: It definitely should be more
than exposure.
Lucy & La Mer: There should still be a value if for something so wonderful. And I mean, think about like the first time you saw live music, the first concert you went to and the emotions you felt and being surrounded by people in that audience and how powerful that was,
you
know, and then that.
Rae Leigh: for it.
Lucy & La Mer: Exactly. And that the hours that go
into learning how to play a guitar or piano, or write a song or create your merge or, you know, network with enough people that you can have promotion for your show.
And there's so much that goes into it.
Rae Leigh: Oh, it's insane. And there is a big pot that we do it because we love it and we see the value in, in ourselves. And the value that it's, and the, hopefully that eternal impact that it will have on the world long after we go home you know, to put something back into the world that is beautiful and positive.
And hopefully going to help someone, but at the same time, yeah. It's like, we want to be able to do it more, but we can't keep doing this. If we. And given the basic human rights of being able to afford food and living costs, you know, we don't need, we don't need much, but we do need something. It is important to get money too.
And that's where the business aspect comes in and it's important.
But it's not everything, but it is.
Lucy & La Mer: Of course not. No, but I think I know Australia has something different where I believe like you can actually apply to the government for funding. Um, yes, like grants and things. See here, we, we just don't have access to that. If you're a musician in LA, like I know that you also have another
job, you know, it's just, yeah.
It's just like, your, or a few, you know, a lot of friends that I've seen, who've been really successful in terms of, you know, their, their songs are on a lot of blogs. They have a ton of Spotify listens, but. They still work, you know, six days a week, at least at a restaurant or somewhere Like that so that they can support themselves while
pursuing
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And, and a lot of people like that in Australia have a full-time job. I worked for eight years in a corporate job, and
essentially this is my retirement gig. I had a full mental breakdown and just retired from like,
but I also have three children and just, you know, whole another story, but it was just like, I can't.
Do what I love anymore.
But it is it's, it's something that everyone has to consider and it can be very hard to try and do this. If you don't have some sort of form of income or like starting any business, you need to have equity or you need to have something that you can start your
business with because you're not going to make a profit straight away.
Lucy & La Mer: Which is will, that's why I'm saying
it's. Yes. Which is why I think for these,
these, uh, smaller venues, at least here, it's so important to pay the artists, even if it's just gas, money, you know, just a little bit, because What we're seeing is more musicians spending money to play. You know, there's all this under the table pay to be in a
festival, pay to play this big venue by covering the cost of tickets, And then you have to go sell them, ,
Rae Leigh: That used to be a big thing here, like 20 years ago. And there was a big uproar and it was like almost a band that, you know, you, you may not get paid to play all the time, depending on where you're at in your career, but there was a definite no-no to pay to play, you know, but, um, since COVID, it started to creep back
in and it's
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: disgusting if you ask me
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. I think that I understand the venues, you know, of course they're struggling right now.
Rae Leigh: Hm.
Lucy & La Mer: Um, but then it's, like, well, and so we're all these artists that couldn't play at the venues and it's so hard. Um, but I think if people kind of come together and say, Hey, let's do you know a fundraiser for this venue.
And they'll, they'll also pay the bands, a small percentage of that, you know, something that works
for everyone
Rae Leigh: Yeah. and I think that that's a beautiful attitude to have is the, actually we're in this together, let's work together and let's be. let's all collaborate and try and make the successful and all,
you know, take the risk, but also
take the benefits if it does work
out.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. Oh definitely. And I do remember, um, when I was, when I was in Australia in January, 2020, I did a little like, uh, a pub tour in Melbourne. Yeah. And I remember that every single place I played, even if it was just a very, like a Sunday afternoon at a pub, they always pay. Everyone who is performing. And I thought that was very whew.
Do I need to move here?
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Lucy & La Mer: is, I feel so valued and you know, I'm just playing covers half the time. Uh, because when you're new to a city, it's like, okay, I'm going to play a lot of covers in this set to get people interested. But I just thought that was, that was, really wonderful.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, that is cool. And somebody needs to do it really well. And Melbourne does do music industry really well. Um, and I think there's a lot of awareness and appreciation in Melbourne, which is beautiful to see, um, that you were treated that way. So I'm so glad that you had that experience. So we talked about best and worst experience, which kind of went in together advice.
If you could go back say eight years ago, when you first started out and you could give yourself one piece of advice,
what would you say?
Lucy & La Mer: oh, I think I would just say enjoy it. Because there's been so many moments of, um, and they're just being free. And this is for me personally, maybe I think anyone who goes into that, the entertainment world, you're going to have a lot of fun and you're going to have a lot of hard times as well. And just enjoying the journey as it is, you know, just with life in general.
I know you hear that. So, so often that it's almost cliche. To really enjoy and remind yourself that you get to show up and make art every day. Um, even with, you know, the side jobs and hustles and the ups and downs of being in a competitive market, just enjoy that. You're allowing yourself this, this opportunity to kind of follow your passion, you know, chase your dreams as it
is.
Rae Leigh: I love that. It's so true. It's like life is going to be what it's going to be. Why worry about it, just enjoy it for what it is. And that means sort of having a lot of
compassion for oneself when you're going on the
downward spiral.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah, that's not easy for me. That's not easy.
Rae Leigh: it's not
easy
for me, but sometimes.
I think I'm getting better at it.
And I think you do get better at it. Um, maybe it comes with like age and experience and like just a lot of really bad down spirals. It's like, you got to learn how to be aware of them and also just be compassionate towards yourself that all right, I'm having a bit of a downer, but I'm going to keep going.
And you know, um, it's not always going to be like this and that can be hard to realize in the moments. Um, but it's good to be reminded to just.
Because, you know, if you go down, you're going to come back up.
Lucy & La Mer: right.
Rae Leigh: Cause it is a roller coaster. All right. If you could co-write with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it
be and
why?
Lucy & La Mer: Oh, uh, John prime is one of my favorite songwriters. Um, John Prine rides, a lot of funny. Funny good stuff. And my dad would S would play his songs when we were kids and he still does, but he'll just pick up his guitar and play some old John Prine songs. And that writer passed away this year, unfortunately, due to COVID.
Um, but just such a classic Nashville writer who is just so honest, like they talk about current pop writers, like Julia Michaels and JP Sachs and all of these people who are writing. Casual honest lyrics that are just, uh, really surprising people because pop has taken so many turns, but it's never just very, I don't know if nonchalant is the right word or candid, but, um, but I would say that John pine was the first songwriter that I listened to and just, I felt like I was listening to someone talking to me.
And I think when you feel that way, when you hear a song and. It feels like you're sitting next to someone and they're just telling you a story and you're going along with it. Um, that's my favorite type of
song writing
Rae Leigh: Oh, cool. That's mine too. And I liked that when someone says that to me, like when they've listened to a song and they've just cried or they felt it or whatever it is like that the ultimate compliment, unfortunately, up until this point, most
moist reactions to my
songs he's teased. But,
Lucy & La Mer: Oh,
but that's beautiful
though.
Rae Leigh: is beautiful. yeah, I was sitting next to a girl in an airplane and I had a song. It was like my second single I ever released. And I had it coming out soon and I was like, I was really excited and we got on really well. And so I was like, oh, do you want to hear it? And I gave him my headphones and I'm watching her. I can't hear the song, but I know where she's
at.
And she starts bawling her eyes out and she just
please strange it to me,
Lucy & La Mer: Oh,
my gosh.
Rae Leigh: it was it's like, and I'm like, I'm so sorry that you're crying, but that's like the biggest compliment as well for
Lucy & La Mer: oh my gosh.
Rae Leigh: Is such a compliment.
Lucy & La Mer: oh, yeah. and so powerful. Just to be able to communicate something that way to show someone a piece of your art and have them react, you know, with the emotions that you probably felt
writing it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. The power of music and how great it can feel and how good it can make you feel when you're driving down the highway on a road trip. Like it's, it goes both ways and, we all want music for that. So that's really cool. So what have you got, happening this year? What are your
plans?
You've got anything new coming out or
show.
Lucy & La Mer: So I released a single, I'm really fun. Upbeat kind of like pop rock, almost single called Ooh, LA LA. And. It was a lot of fun to make, even during, filming the music video during lockdown was stressful, but still grateful that there was a way to do it. And that was a lot of fun to release in early June.
And then I have a song coming out this Friday. But I'm not sure when this will be up. So I'll just say it's out, it's out and
about, it's a cover of watermelon sugar by
Harry styles.
Rae Leigh: Oh yeah. I love that song. Such a simple, like three, four chord
song. It's just, everyone's covering cause it's so
easy to sing and so fun.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah. it's just so fun. And I think it has a little bit of like silliness to it that isn't in all the bop songs right now.
Yeah. so I really enjoyed it.
I made it more of like a acapella building is it's a much slower, slow down with acoustic guitar and took a different, you know, a different take as you do with
covers
Rae Leigh: I I've pretty much asked you all the questions I have to ask.
Is there anything else you would like to say before we finish up the podcast is
yours.
Lucy & La Mer: Okay. Well, I really love being able to connect with songwriters all over the world. So I'm very happy to be here. And I really appreciate, uh, you.
just taking the time to chat with me about this crazy world that we live in. And, um, I listen to your music and it's beautiful. And I think it's really cool that, uh, you're building community in your own way here, uh, with artists all over the world.
And I think it's so important just to have. Conversations with each other. I find that we're often talking to, you know, our audience or those closest to us who might not be doing the same, same
thing. So
Rae Leigh: It is hard to find that common ground with other songwriters in your local area, because we are spread out across the world. We are a very minority group of, um, artists and, and our art is invisible. You know, it's not something that people can see and. Um, often, even if they do see it, they don't see us, you know, it is a very isolating world, so I'm really glad to have you a part of it.
And I really do miss just being in the same room with live music or doing co-writes and like retreats and, and all that sort of stuff. I really miss just being around other people. And I think that's kind of where this came from. Plus my husband was getting sick of me talking all the time and he's like,
Lucy & La Mer: Oh, that's great.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. So I really appreciate you spending the time and coming on and sharing with me your journey. And I'm just excited to support you and share what you're doing and just continue to follow. And hopefully we'll get to meet up sometime if I ever get to California, um, that'd be amazing. We'll have to do coffee or something.
Lucy & La Mer: Oh, yes. I can show you the best coffee spots.
Rae Leigh: Perfect. Cause that's really important to me.
Lucy & La Mer: Yes. Once I, once I went to Australia, I was like, oh, oh, our coffee is not very good. So I've found a few spots that I think will do
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I haven't been to San Francisco when I first had my baby, my S my husband had a work conference with his company because he's worked in, worked in it, and we were in San Francisco. I had my baby and I'm walking around while he's at the conference. I'm walking around in San Francisco. It took me a good few days to find what I guess is everywhere in Australia.
I didn't know how lucky and spoiled we are for coffee choices, but
Lucy & La Mer: huh.
Rae Leigh: you have, you have regular coffee and fancy coffee. Now your fancy coffee is just our regular coffee.
Lucy & La Mer: yeah. Oh
Rae Leigh: do the other stuff.
Lucy & La Mer: I know you don't mess around
Rae Leigh: No,
Lucy & La Mer: stuff.
Rae Leigh: No, It took me a while to learn that it was a bit of a cultural shock, but, um, yeah. So I'll definitely be like, okay, I don't want to spend three days trying to find good
Lucy & La Mer: no. no, no. no. I will. I will show you the way. don't worry.
Rae Leigh: Thank you, Lucy.
Lucy & La Mer: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: All right. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
