#194 Luke O’Shea
Multi-award-winning singer-songwriter Luke O'Shea chats with Rae Leigh about his journey as a teacher and songwriter. After many years on the road and working in the Australian music industry he calls Australia the great filtering system for artists because it's just so hard, you have done it because you can't do anything else.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a songwriter trysts with Luke O'Shea how are you?
Luke O'Shea: good. Rae
Rae Leigh: I'm good. Thanks for coming on. I'm looking forward to it. This is actually a Friday evening live recording that we are doing. What do you normally do on Friday nights when you're not chatting with me?
Luke O'Shea: Well, two years ago. I was pretty busy. I was probably someplace around this magnificent country. There has, but last two years of no, no, this has become my new norm and I'm really liking it, just hanging at home and, Thinking, maybe what's on Netflix later on. I don't know how to put the Bobby on, just kind of have a glass of wine and it's been lovely you know, it's, trying to get the musical mojo back up again. but when you consider the fact that, you got to drive for the next nine hours or whatever it used to be in sitting at some airports, some awaiting, some flight cancellation or.
Rae Leigh: it sounds like you've burnt out a little bit from it all.
Luke O'Shea: Well, it wasn't. Yeah. it's kinda funny. You didn't realize it at the time. Cause that was just, that was your normal, you just did it and you didn't mind doing it because that was his life.
That how it was for 25, 30 years. And, with. Yeah, no. Interesting. Last couple of years there was, a new norm arose and it was, it was unreal. I, I like, I live close to the ocean here and it was just the gods of surfing discounts. The best two years of swell. It was hard to honor. People were saying how tough it was, but man, I was loving it, just being at home and being in the ocean, reconnecting with friends and family members that I really, hadn't given a lot of time to over the last few decades, priorities changed and, it's taking some effort to go back to how it was,
Rae Leigh: I think he needed to do what feels right for you.
Luke O'Shea: Well this, yeah, this feels great. you. know, just talking about music and creating music. I've got my little, studio going here and there's plenty of projects underway and I'm really loving that creative outlet. And it's been, ah, it's been more than sufficient. as opposed to just dealing with the road and everything that, that entails.
Rae Leigh: Exactly. Awesome. Well, let's go back to the very beginning. I like to start by letting everyone else at home. Know a little bit about who you are and where you come from.
Luke O'Shea: Sure. Luke Anthony O'Shea from. Sydney, Australia, a school teacher and a storyteller, a songwriter.
Rae Leigh: music?
Luke O'Shea: Currently I teach music and, Taz and, that's always interesting. Teaching does an art, you know, and, religion is kind of like woodwork cooking it, you know, and I I'm terrible at all. The above. So, you know, it's, it's easily a bit of blood in my classroom and it's always mine, you know?
And, it's a deliberate mistake I make on to teach the children You know, what deliberate.
mistake did I just make again, they got all your jewelry through your hand, sir. And that's right. What, what's The next, deliberate mistake I've just made and the on you've just sliced your thumb up and that's. Demonstrating our shop. Things can be sour. Yeah. I'm not that coordinated in, the realm of tools, but, yeah, I do love, I do love, the gift of teaching. It's certainly given me a lifestyle that I, wouldn't have had the, if I just relied on music to, pay the mortgage that's for sure. And, it gave me enough in choice. I've got to say to keep the love of music there, as opposed to making case sound and brown eyed girl, the only way that I could pay those bills.
Rae Leigh: There's nothing wrong with that as well. I know a lot of artists that do cover gigs and things as well,
Luke O'Shea: Ma'am I did it, as I mentioned before decades and decades, you know, there's three, I think there's three,
careers that you need to have, particularly in Australia, in order to survive as a musician. And there's no shame in any of them, but, I needed a nine to five job, with that security in order to kind of. I have a hymen, just children and holidays, et cetera. And, the other job I needed was to be a United to keep the skills up and to keep the boys in the band or the girls and band employed. Because when you keep the band together. It's hard to be an original artist, unless you want to be perpetually on that road. And Australia has got a very long. Road and with a very few gigs in between. So, and then. wait, if you are going to strike and start coming on original career from that, you certainly utilize the skills and the, the fitness that you build up from those years and years of doing the covers. And so they are three very different.
careers that, into Twan and. You need all three in order to be an original artist in Australia? I believe anyway, it's just, it's far too hard and too lonely too, and too risky. Just to be an original artists. Just, it's a hard, hard.
Rae Leigh: I actually started busking in, in, lockdown as a random opportunity came up. They were doing busking inside shopping centers, to support local artists because, you know, we weren't working. Yeah, I quickly realized that people gave more money when I was singing. Cover songs. And I still, I also mixed in a few originals when I made some really good fans out of that from people in the middle of a shopping center, being distracted by a song that they liked, which was really encouraging.
But most of the tips came from singing, you know, like let it's Collins, hallelujah, or something like that. I remember after a few days of playing four hours a day, at least, yeah. My feet, I think that's actually where I built up my calluses.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah. it's integral and it's and you learn very valuable songwriting tips for yourself because you you find those songs and you break down the form of those songs that you love, and you say, ah, there lifts there and you find that key that you just nailed. You know, I know that, you know, from doing all those covers. gigs that I just love the key of a, and so if I'm going to structure,
a song, I'm going to make sure that I just. That chorus on an iCore because I'll just rise. And then you, you know, you find out through playing That whole, range of genres within that country world. I'm sorry, within that.
covers world, I should say. what songs really connect with audiences and how they're structured and you find those three majors in the minor and pretty much all those hit songs and you start to twist it around and find a new line or melody that makes it your own and you find your own distinct style and voicing. And where are you going to put your Cape?
You know, it's, it's essential. It's, it's, it's, Joad apprenticeship, and it's a very valuable apprenticeship. And, you know, you learn your microphone. technique and how to work a crowd and how to control that one. Hecla that's in every gig every way. So, you just need that grounding in Australia. is certainly going to give you that, I call it Australia music. It's the great filtering system. Yeah, cause then it filters out all the pretenders, you know, it's not so raw and it's real. And you know, there's so much talent out there and all those TV shows like the voice X fact, idle, you know, They uncover so much potential and so much talent in Australia, but then they, they realize it's a hard tough slogging out there. and they're not heard. of again, which is a real shame.
because there is so much gold in this country. And so much creativity that just gets stifled or gets shut down or just gets abandoned because the road is a tough one and it's a filtering system. So you do, after.
a few decades, find those. Brothers and sisters out there who keep on keeping on because there is no plan B. There is no other option who they are and they need to do it as essential as breathing.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, no, I can totally relate to that. So why was it essential for you? What was that path like when it got too hard? Why did you stick around
Luke O'Shea: It wasn't always essential. I was always just like, Like yourself? You know, I was a mad traveler. I had a travel bag, you know, that just was all consuming. And, that's pretty much, why I became a teacher. No for the love children. It was because I just wanted
Rae Leigh: they are angels.
Luke O'Shea: Ah, They're such dangerous teenagers, aren't they adorable to no one ever. So Yeah. I just wanted to travel and I thought, well, I can become a teacher and just takes you wherever. And, and then I just bust and played in street corners to supplement that income. I never thought that it could actually be a career and, yeah, it wasn't until I was living in Ireland that, they started to you know, cause I went away for six months and eight years I was gone, you know, and a two and a half years in north America, in Canada, two years up there.
And then, a year in Japan then, then another two and a half years over in Europe. It was unreal, it was just great. but that's what music and teaching enabled me to do. And then, but it wasn't until I was. in Ireland. I was really encouraged to tell my own story. And it was a strange thing because once I started to write my music and, and, and felt the way it connected with audiences there, that songwriting bug then consumed the travel bug, which I thought was impossible to do. It was just unrelenting. And it was a strange moment because. From a man who just couldn't sit still. All I wanted to do was to get back to
Terraform or in Australia and connect with country back here and write he right in Australia. And it was really
a strong pool. It was, it was overwhelming. And, I came back and then I just. Didn't stop playing. I just, I look at what I used to do and how often I'd play into just a, you know, I'd started a young family around the same age as well, you know, and it was. I dunno, how I did it It was just not, so it was just passion. passionate means willing to suffer before. And you know, you suffer for, your art in Australia, that's for sure. You know, and, um, you just do it.
And I dunno, like I looked back on, it announced it was like, I used to just do the George Costanza. You know, I have three little kids I'd kind of, um, you know, at that one, I didn't have three at that stage. I'll just get one, but you get. Four or five nights a week yet you're teaching five days a week. You're trying to put kids to
bed in the meantime. And then, you know, at recess, I'd roll out of my desk and just under the desk and just sleep the 20 minutes if I could as any way survive. But you just, You just do it cause yeah, there's no other option.
Rae Leigh: That's insane.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah, but, I, and then you have, you might back in those days, you know, you could make some money selling CDs and there was a bit of a live scene and we got, sign-off a nice label at the starch scabs, a big leg up and, We just started to keep that momentum going.
And then, uh, you know, that's a whole new chapter of pain. Ah, yeah. I I call that the whole scene. that whole. thing. That's just, that's, that's the joy thieves that, that falls into the folder. Joy, you know,
Rae Leigh: What, what makes you say that? Because, I mean, I have had different experiences of people signing contracts and, and then, you know, their, their story after that. What was your experience?
Luke O'Shea: Ah, look, it was bright. Like basically it was, it was the mid nineties, you know, we were playing as a band was called medicine wheel in those days. And it was a good band, you know, if people want to hear what medicine. Was, if you Spotify, pinball, Leuko Shay pinball, That project that's exactly what the medicine wheel was.
And it was a great season. I loved it. And we won, in a number of battle of the bands as it was to the nineties, you know. We couldn't take that next step. We just couldn't. We just couldn't step up into, we couldn't get anyone to represent us. We couldn't get a label behind us. We couldn't get decent management.
It was just. very frustrating. And through that frustration, I saw, you know, this is not, you know, we've proven that we've got one at a time excellence, quality project. The best advice we got was from Michael Chuck. And that was just a, get the hell out of Australia. You know, this is, there was nothing for us here.
It was just, and I didn't want to hear that. I wanted to
Rae Leigh: to
Luke O'Shea: want to do it here, but So, um, that's when I went, to Tamworth for the first time and I had a frustration thing, there must be something else
And that's where. I saw these multi-generational audiences listening to ours that were from every type of background and every age group.
And, this is it. This is my people. This is my tribe. I just felt immediately connected with that genera of music, the storytelling aspect and the way that people respected the song. And it didn't have the ego of the rock wall that.
we'd just come out of it. It was, the artists were nice to each other.
They talk to each other and. I just went, this is, this was just, it was an epiphany. I just went, this is my place. And, So I went back to the studio and I just rearranged some of the recordings that we'd done previously And, simplified buys, replace some guitar solos with thumb,
fiddles and managers and stuff.
And next thing you know, we will sign away ABC and universal music. And, uh, I said, well, our boys were out country band cap, and I didn't, I though the gatekeepers that just hired us at the time, because they knew that we knew bagger all, but, uh, it was the story was there. But, uh, we certainly got to tone the Dole through to playing with the light night venues and closing the businesses and, uh, rodeos and, uh, Oh, nice light night gigs. It was a lot of, fun, but when punters is given the choice of buying a CD or a Bundy and Coke, the CD's never going win. You know, at two o'clock in the morning at the crowbar, you know, it was, we had to make it conscious of it, you know, to um, little bit more established and that the gatekeepers realize we won't go away or I wasn't anyway.
Yeah, we, we started to change the time zones that we'd play and we, we started to play for a more listening audience and that's when we started to get a bit more acceptance and, uh, you know, a couple of the awards started coming through and it was nice.
Rae Leigh: It was nice to get a bit of recognition and people listening or
Luke O'Shea: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: That's a
Luke O'Shea: and that was the thing, but it's how, you know, this is what You go to try to express to people that when they put out an album, it wasn't until the fourth album that, Anything came in. It was just, we couldn't get a nominate, but I also had an insight into the industry at that time from both an independent and also with a liable.
And you do see how the machinations work and how the artists, you know, you got to feed the machine,
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Luke O'Shea: you have to generate money in order to, to attract that. That team around you and, they're going to protect their themselves. And that's why you'll constantly see the same old names, you know, featuring the same festivals more than any other genre.
It's the same, same, same, because they feed the machine that machine needs feeding. And, so as long as they keep doing that, they'll keep the same people. You know, it's, it's an interesting dynamic, but you, you do understand. Absolutely. It's just the game you play and, yeah, it's, it's just the way it is.
Rae Leigh: I mean, you've been doing really well. And to say that you've been lasting and found it found some sort of, I guess, equilibrium for what you're doing so that you can continue to enjoy. It sounds nice between family and surfing and teaching and each, do you still have the travel bug? Oh, you quiet. You think you've gotten rid of it a little bit.
Luke O'Shea: Um, no, no, I've still definitely got the travel bug. You know, I still love the that's the beauty music. It's the road takes you down, you know, that you never would have normally gone down before. And, you know, I was never a tourist. I, but I love traveling. Loved the travel and, So whenever you get to incorporate the two, like, in August, this year, I'm heading up to the Kimberley. Up to a beautiful place where my fireplace is in the plant. They'll quest drop there to do a residency up there for a month and just to connect with country back up there and just I'm. So looking forward to just the week of driving and sitting in the car, as I kind of make my way up the Kimberley here from Sydney, and then. Just to catch up with my slung the way I'll be catching him with Tommy Kurt and do some shows and Katherine and Chris Matthews and come an hour. And, and, uh, you know, there's just, once you go around this country a few times, you realize how small it is. It's just a small, island in regards to people, but it's just a very small lab and spread out over a very large
Rae Leigh: Long roads,
Luke O'Shea: specs. yeah. Long rides. once you hop transverse that nothing is, it's just these little communities where you Really, get to connect with a lot of other people around there, and you really do form strong friendships with them. But, man, there's some miles in between them, but
Rae Leigh: but
Luke O'Shea: it's still, any little, like you can go to Melbourne and Vick and have, you know, it's it's a
10 hour drive say, and you just put in between us. Great people in great towns and great stops and, and you just get to connect with the regions all over the place. And then once you learn about Australia's just how diverse it is. It's it's. You know, you don't go to Europe And expect the Swedes to be the same as the Spaniards or the, or the Greeks to be the same as the Scots. You know, they're all distinctly different, different look, language cuisine, religion, culture,
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Luke O'Shea: geography changes dramatically. And it's the same in Australia. You know, you got a broom or you go down to Tasmania or you go over to the west coast or the tropical north in Queensland. It's distinct. Fascinating. And you'd just become addicted to that travel and that
Rae Leigh: And it's pretty safe and kind, you know, we don't have guns and, um, people are pretty children, Australia. I remember speaking to my, I have a therapist I have had for a very long time. And, um, she was telling me, you know, like there's a reason why Australia loved COVID because it gave the media something to talk about because we, in general Australia doesn't have that much drama going on.
Like it's considering our size and where we are in the world. You know, we don't have massacres every six months or
Luke O'Shea: nah,
Rae Leigh: weeks.
Luke O'Shea: it's, you know, someone will prove that one day, you know, you'd have to step out into the sun, you know, out of the shade to feel the power of the sun. You know what I mean? You can feel that physical power of the sun, as soon as you step out into it. And people forget that we're sitting on this big molten ball that radiates a very strong energy and there's certain layers of crust. You know, filter through that energy and it might be really distinct in Europe or north America or Africa. There's a pause, but in Australia it emanates this feeling of she'll be right, mate.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Luke O'Shea: give me your right. And you know that, how else could you explain that the aboriginals lived here for 60,000 years and not once did they feel the need to, you know, invent a wheel or a Baron? They didn't know that Chile.
Rae Leigh: They like, nah, uh, I love the,
Luke O'Shea: and that, and that added awesome when it comes to lifestyle and just attitude towards people. But it's a bag of when you're trying to be a touring musician. Um, I mean,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well, it depends on what you're trying to
achieve.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah, you'll be right, man. I'll catch you tomorrow.
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Luke O'Shea: She'll be right.
Rae Leigh: yeah, no worries.
Luke O'Shea: Dammit.
Rae Leigh: Tell me, like with your music and when you are writing songs, is there something that you're specifically thinking about, or do you feel like after this many years of writing music, there is a theme or core that you like to implant into your music that you want people to feel or hear and
go that's a Leuko Shay
Luke O'Shea: Yeah. just a go for it. And so there is definitely a lot of. Subliminal messages there about kind of season the day. The other theme I would say would be just trying to be that link between, and I say over the last four albums in particular, trying to link the, the.
New Australia with all Australia, you know, the indigenous people had strong connection in this country and I feel modern day Australians after 6, 5, 6, 7 generations of living upon it are feeling it, but they just haven't had the teachers or the ways to, or the rituals to connect and take ownership and become custodians of their regions.
And. We're starting to realize through the dramatic changes we're seeing in our common. And now
every dialogue in regards to the why the review of the system being ruined and, the fracking systems that have now happened, the coal mining expansion. It's, we're starting to really feel that we need to. Represent and stand up and say enough's enough. And we've got to look after this for not just our kids, but for our grandkids. And, that's at the core of indigenous
Australians, they respected this land so much to pass it on because they were smart enough to realize if you didn't there goes your whole survival and we've taken a little. Within a very short amount of time, new Australia. That has to change. We've got to start turning that around. So it's about highlighting the awareness that this country is amazing and singing up its people and. its past. And it's great. There's a lot to be celebrated, But there's also a lot of stuff there.
That's pretty shameful and needs to be addressed and owned. And so. I feel that's been at the core of a lot of my music of light. And, the humbling part is just how well that's connected with, uh, with country music, people, audiences out there, and also the industry, the same AA, you know, even with songs is
bout and I'm blunt is happy Australia. The fact that I'm, that connected to such a degree where we Kevin been at miss self, got to perform that
on the
big stage of the same AA golden guitars and awarded that award for, um, heritage song. But
the fact that that is a very confronting song to what is regarded as being a very conservative genre of music was so
indicative of its willingness to. Step in the right direction.
And we're all ready for change in Australia. I feel it. And even the current election to show that we are Really becoming aware of that the environment is becoming paramount and now care for it. And
we want our politicians to act on it Seriously? because we are seeing it firsthand as.
Not acting on it is having adverse effects on our climate, in our lifestyles, the floods, the droughts, the bushfires, it's happening.
Rae Leigh: yeah, it's right in front of us. You can't ignore it. Not when it's, you know, we're seeing it all over the world.
And I do agree, and I, I like the fact that there is change and that people are starting to take it seriously. Cause that's what we're here for is to protect our land.
How, how do you, how did you connect to it?
How did that become a big part of what you're doing? Was there a moment or something that kind of opened your eyes to it and you wanted to pass that on?
Luke O'Shea: outside that has happened. I've, uh, you know, 40 odd years, you know, it's just, I grew up in the national park here in, in Grise point in the Southern shore. And it was, it was idealic, ideally upbringing, you know, playing creeks and in the Bush, um, And, uh, there was a lot of uh, original artifacts and, uh, carvings and caves, et cetera.
I grew up that were pretty much untouched. And I remember lying there lamenting because I didn't have those teachers that could give me that Rite of passage that said I was a man and that I belonged
to that country. And, um, so you just go off and You do all the.
Western Rite of passage of getting pierced and putting yourself in really dangerous scenarios and,
uh, other, Not say
healthy kind of, um,
you know, benchmarks that you need to tick off your list, you know, and it's, it's confusing time.
And, uh, I really
kind of remember feeling that as a young man and wanting that to change. And, um,
as I traveled, you know, I was always, you know, had a, there's always a spiritual quest, you know, I've always wanted to find out more than just on what the church might teach. And so I explored a lot of, uh, indigenous religions in, particularly in native American spirituality up there, the medicine wheel and thus the name, the band I carry within, thus the symbol.
I still use everywhere and it's, became very important. Me and I ended up following that stuff. Path, you know, all around the place, just exploring the medicine with women, all cultures, Asian cultures, you're being called to the scene in here in Australia. And it was,
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Luke O'Shea: and it's hard not to be aware of that stuff and then
realize How, connection to nature is paramount. It always has been that we're just here fleetingly, and we've got to make sure that we do
our part to. It's not just snatch and grab it's it's about custodian roles. it's about
looking after it for future generations and taking on that she can. So
it just was quite an organic awakening and feel where there wasn't one big moment. It was just ongoing. And then when you see what's happening in these particular regions, and you talk to farmers that have being bullied off their land or yes. You're seeing the
product of corruption, cancels, or governments. and you're seeing these people in real assistance, Zen crops destroyed and any of the risks that are ahead of us, you know, the short-sightedness and the greed that this cell parent to everyone.
Going Freddy could see, you know, that Adani is just idiocy, you know, but it still went ahead and you just go on? how can we allow this stuff to still happen? And, um, so people will be coming.
There is a real growing, it's not dismiss itself as a real growing movement towards. Protecting country. And, uh, it's, it's funny how we're, we're just realigning ourselves with what indigenous Australians have lived by for 60,000 years.
Rae Leigh: I'm really glad that you've
even doing that and that it's being heard. And music, I think is a really powerful tool of being able to share messages like that without coming across as too confrontational. Um, and that's beautiful.
I want to ask you about co-writing. I know that we met at the dag. That was the first time I came across you
and your music. Um, and we do a lot of co-writing. There is, co-running something that you like to do a lot of.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah,
it's pretty much the, anyway, I, right now it's not SKUs.
Uh,
found, you know, it has to be a very big burning issue within me to want to write a song just for me now, because every song that you write should be the best thing that you've ever done.
You know, from this point on, like, he's not used to me writing a song, it's not as good as the previous song.
Otherwise I've gone backwards. So if I'm going to put my time and energy into it, it has to be a very important subject matter. That's burning within me. That will wake me up in the middle of the night as songs we'll do, Um,
stories we'll do. And.
Until that happens, then I just don't right. I'll put my creative energies into something else and that's, that's all good and fine because also you realize if you just keep writing, you just kind of keep recording and you
just, you forget the other Everest that
you have to climb and that.
Mocking and the promoting and all that horrible
stuff.
And so
it just, doesn't make
sense to just keep riding, but when somebody comes
to, you know, where we hook up with some writing or treats or they come here or wherever, um,
Rae Leigh: All of a
Luke O'Shea: of a sudden, I get escapism. I get to enter into a world, which is not my own, and I love it, you know, and it's, I can tap into their life and their story and their burning, um, inspiration, you know, behind an idea.
And, you know, through that, I've been, you know, I was never into cars. Like I look at my current album that I'm recording at the moment. I think. I think eight of the 10 tracks on it, a K right. And that's, it's, it's fantastic. You know, I'm a rev head in one office and they're in their cars, but now
I'm in a rev.
I mean, I was now cruising the, uh, south beach strip down in Woolongong on a Thursday night. And then, um, I'm up in Darwin and, um, I'm having a
cup of tea with a homeless, you know, Blake who, uh, you know, has looked for lessors Goldie's whole life
dove pools. And then, um, I mean, Western Australia and I'm cruising her in the truck, you know, I mean,
uh,
in a big truck, mine and, or, and uh, you know, I go all over the place, you know, as a co-writer
I get to go everywhere.
It's fantastic. I mean, Afghanistan and one of them, you know, as a, as a soldier, there's, it's, it's
like
being invited into a, a movie. And become a character in it. And that's, um, and that's the beauty of.
summer. It's just this stories and they paint imagery, but you got to do it all within three to five
minutes. It's
the challenge. Paint that image. You give me the story, give me the orientation, give me the complication. You give me the resolution, give me the lesson and get out of there. And, uh, you know, Which shocker are you going? I'm at, am I going? I'm at your hip? So I'm like dancing, you're hot to make you feel it.
Am I going to throw it and make you movement your brain to make it visualize it? Or where am I aiming these songs? And occasionally
you can hit all
the chakras, you know, a few of the shockers
Rae Leigh: That's my favorite. And just Chuck, the whole bloody.
Luke O'Shea: yeah, it hit the whole body and that's, that's red. It's not easy to do. And when you do it, it,
makes for a pretty special song.
But, um,
sometimes you just have to reconnect with one.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well just connecting in
general is,
is like a ultimate goal for me. Anyway. What would you say? Um, over the years of learning Karzai and doing so much of it, um, is there something that you would say you wish you had have known earlier about a co-writing process or any advice that you give to people who are just starting out with that process?
Luke O'Shea: The thing I always try and do, even for myself in any song is always try and put one chord in each song or maybe more that's beyond my ability, you know?
And if you can hear it, you can usually sing it. I know that sounds weird, but if you can hear that melody, you just got to go for it. Being a songwriter, you hear lines of melody and you feel you should be, but sometimes it's just beyond your ability at that stage.
And The thing is you just got to keep working at it. And so nothing's going to give you more joy than achieving something that you thought you couldn't do initially. You know, that's where the source of the greatest self-esteem comes from. it's just, the music gives you that opportunity.
Every single time you pick up an instrument or attempt to write a song, you're going to push yourself past the point, which you think you can't quite get there. And so I would, I would, always say, I wish I you know, I'd spent in those earlier days a lot more time at exp banding and pushing myself with, with kind of, becoming a better musician. I'm a songwriter trying to become a musician. Does that make sense? And there's, there's a lot of great musicians out there
that just aren't songwriters, but they're
phenomenal
musicians.
Rae Leigh: It's still a part of the songwriting process though. But like, I mean,
Luke O'Shea: yeah. Massively.
Rae Leigh: Like I say, I'm a songwriter who sings and attempts to play
music. Like I can play a lot of different instruments, but not as well as some of you prodigies out there that just
Luke O'Shea: Yeah.
And That's it. And Viva difference, you know, thank goodness that's there because everyone's got their thing. And no matter how long I play that guitar, there's some people that
just have that touch that I just not with. You know, they just have that touch and it's it can't be taught. It's just natural. And it's the same with
summer on there's people that just have that ability to put two words together. They'll break your heart. It's just the way it is. That's the expected that you're just constantly searching for and to lose, even then you get close to it
and you can feel it that close to it. And sometimes yeah, you might land on it, and then people say, how'd you do that? And you go, I don't know. It's magic. And, that's why we're all fascinated. That's what we're talking about And that's why you're doing these podcasts because nobody can give you a definitive answer. It's just fascinating.
Rae Leigh: it's unique to everyone. And I, I think I was initially trying to crack the code on songwriting and now I realize it's just a mystery, but I love the mystery. and I actually don't the guy I want to crack the card. I just want to enjoy the mystery and the connection that music brings with other
Luke O'Shea: Yeah, the shed or of the mystery,
Rae Leigh: Yeah, And the feeling that feeling that, that melody and music and lyrics all married together can, can bring you to some, some special place that other stuff just can't. So yeah. it's magical.
Luke O'Shea: we've said the word a bunch
of times during this interview, but it's just connection. That's, there's no faster way to connect with another human on the planet than through a song. And I've played to a lot of people from every demographic and socioeconomic group in every age group. And it's just been fascinating to see how. The power of ways that they can strip people. Now I've had hard men just crack open and cry within
three minutes of hearing a song, you know, with the all men shed. And then you gotta leave them laugh and then cry and they bring them back And it's just. It's just a responsibility and it's something that you don't take for granted. And it's something that you've explored and it's something that you, you don't, there's no ego associated to it, but it's powerful. And to be regarded in the gang of being songwriters is, is a gift. It's a
very special. Well there's words. I think it's called, what's that charisms, you know, people have certain charisms, you know, and it's just their guests. Some are brilliant at math.
Some are brilliant at kind of languages. I can't recall. I lived in so many different countries and all I know as I as sorry. And thank you,
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I can count to 10 in a
Luke O'Shea: it does not stick. There's nothing in my brain that will retain the language, but I can see any song imply play the chords that I heard back in the seventies, man.
And it. just sticks those stick with me, but it's, yeah, everyone's got their thing, but your butcher baker candlestick naked, nothing's
better than, than anything else. but you do have a, I'm very grateful for the tribe of songwriters out there where you find them and you just get it, man. I get you. I get you because,
Rae Leigh: it
Luke O'Shea: we are, we are quite a vague bunch. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: The rest of the world traces like waiters and we're like, Hey, so right. As you get it.
Luke O'Shea: because you know, you hear that turn of phrase somewhere in you going, ah, that marries that Millie, that I've been carrying him for three
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Luke O'Shea: line. and then, and then you putting it all together and people ask you a question. You're not listening to meagan. it's very cognitive. It's all up
Rae Leigh: my husband. Absolutely nuts.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah. look, yeah, we get it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And you like that? The social group where you're in the middle of dinner And all of a sudden you've got these lyrics and you have to write them down. So, you know, you're off on your phone. And everyone was like, oh, you, always being so rude. And you're always, and you're like, I have to over grid it.
And then I'll stay awake all night. Regrading trying to remember what it was.
Luke O'Shea: ain't going to decide on how we did it with LEDs will come in the line or melody line, if you don't, it's gone,
Rae Leigh: always had notebooks on me. I
Luke O'Shea: thank goodness for those board recorders.
Rae Leigh: I have so many notebooks and I'd have these little notebooks and the little pens and. And then a few years ago, I took these bookshelves of notebooks that had like, you know, they weren't all full, but I, and I got rid of all the blank bits and I put out all the lyrics and I put it all into this one fat folder and consolidated.
Luke O'Shea: yeah,
Rae Leigh: But yeah, now
Luke O'Shea: I don't know why. Yeah, you can't fall follows and fall, you know? And, uh, you just gotta keep it one day, who knows how many generations will pass and they might find pops all the lyrics and go, hey,
Rae Leigh: Um,
Luke O'Shea: he was in such a way. That was really
Rae Leigh: Well,
Luke O'Shea: nice.
Rae Leigh: I think if anyone's, so my notes I'd be like, wow, she was a real reader, but That's okay. Because not every, not all songs are meant to be heard or read. But that's cool. So let's go back to, you are a teacher, so this is probably, this may be something that you've passed on, but over the years of label, no label bands, solo country travel rock.
What would you say is like a core piece of advice that you would give to someone, again, starting out any genre as a songwriter, potentially artists as well. Like you, what's something you wish you had of kind of known a bit earlier.
Luke O'Shea: Ah, look, always keep the joy in what you do, because you know,
you got to understand that you're doing this for yourself. You're recording, you're writing the music for yourself. You're recording the music for yourself, you know, it's you, you know, and if other people get it great, but if they don't, don't lose hope don't because. You just got to keep on doing it because it's who you are. And you're not John. I kind of appease anybody else other than yourself. You've really got to make sure that you are really happy in your heart, that you are doing this. For you otherwise it's pointless. Um, the other thing is that, you know, the goalposts move those goalposts of success really close to you see success and all the little things don't see success as being stuck in a tour bus, you know, for the next six months.
And you know, where he abandoned. Let me take time problems and problems in the relationship problems. And you're just sitting there, you know, you might be planning on a big stage, but you're desperately unhappy. You know, you've, that's not success. Success is when you.
Get a gig, you know, in a place where you. can hang out and just go down a new road, a new track, or you write a song with somebody that you've been meaning to. And it's, makes you feel good and it's, that's doing good. And so move those
goalposts to success. You know, there's a lot of moments that billionaires will never be able to experience because you're a songwriter and you'll be down amazing paths and, and pursue it and learn to love the hard work.
Rae Leigh: Hmm, you're adventurous.
Luke O'Shea: Just love the hard work. Just if it's hard, great. Dig in, make it even harder. It was on the other side of that hard work is the greatest rewards. That words can't express. It's just you, it just keep issuing. Because you love it and just keep making it as good as you can because you love it and learn to see the success in all the small things along the way.
Don't see being signed to a label as being the mark of
success. Don't see having a number one as being UMAC density ago and guitar on Ari or what oral and appro or whatever is being your arc of success. It's everywhere. It's every single step along the way that's success. And if you're still doing it, when you're 110.
Man, you still gonna be loving it.
Rae Leigh: I love that. And it's, it. is interesting because everyone has a different, idea of what success is, which is interesting, because I think if you don't unpack what that idea of success is, it's very easy to believe that your idea of success is everyone. Else's idea of success and you're all competing for the same thing. And then when you unpack that and realize, actually my idea of success is unique to me. It also then takes away that competition factor because it's like, music is not a sport. We're not competing. Like it's, it's not a competition at all in the slightest.
Luke O'Shea: No, enjoy it. And just enjoying like any ego, ego is always evident in any industry. It goes there and you just, you learn to identify the ego and you know, it's just,
Rae Leigh: guys don't like me.
Luke O'Shea: going to give you good advice. There you go. It's never going to give you a good advice when you're operating from that ego space.
So. Go from that, you know, find that heart space and find that joy, particularly when you're playing, because 98% of what we
do is not actually playing. And that's why it's called playing. We get to play like, yeah, it's awesome. I need is going in. I have fun when you're playing, because you're playing is you can, 98% of what we do is just to get you to that
point to get on stage. And, you just got to keep that as the, the, uh, the. You know, we get to, actually hop on that stage and just connect and express and just heal and open up and just allow it out, man, shine. Like the star you are.
Rae Leigh: I love that. Tell me, to this point, what would you say for you has been the most successful thing where you went. That was, that was a moment that I just couldn't believe all the hard work had paid off and.
Luke O'Shea: No, there's thankfully there's been a little, lots of that. You know, the fact that I got to take my kids out of school for, you know, four months and, you know, do that a couple of times. Do you know where you just get to travel around Australia and I just pull it. Puzzle
Karen And, parks, and, um, do a little residency paying for food for us all that night
and playing under the stars and the music allowed us to do that And, Lorianne does John and give my kids such a, an awakening to our amazing this
country is, and the size of it and the diverse nature of it all. and it's people. And. You know, be able to get up on my country, music cruises with the kids and show them the world and, see where music leads you down
that path, or play with some phenomenal musicians
who have become great friends, you know, and they're just, they're angels, man. They're just.
They, their gifts are just so phenomenal that they're just from another realm and You get to know these people and you get to spend time with them
and, uh, that's success. And, you know, then you have the industry side where you do get
encouraged by your peers. You know, when they do award you with a piece of hardware that says, we get you and we want you to keep going with it, you know, and that's, that's.
Deeply humbling. yeah.
And that's, that's something you may not ever take for granted and it's, and it really does inspire you to keep on keeping on and you want to make
it up how that level of responsibility that they're giving you by saying, we understand what you've done and appreciate it. And you, and it's this success all the way through, uh, really feel blessed, you know? And, um, yeah.
I've never been able to let go of teaching mind you, you know, it's just not otherwise about the money. If it was just me. then no problem. But when you want to have a family and a mortgage and a holiday,
and you know, I was going to sign a nice cover. I still don't have a nice car but,
Rae Leigh: I don't have a car,
at the moment either. It was just kind of puts a hold on the touring side of things, but
Luke O'Shea: But I do love it. It's a typical music. God's crazy. But, yeah, it's just not important, but, um, you know, there's so much joy and there's so much success along the way. You just got to learn to really acknowledge it and see it, and allow yourself to, to feel it, you know, and, um, and, enjoy it. Yeah. Just,
Rae Leigh: enjoy the moments because you don't know when you'll have another one.
Luke O'Shea: That's it right? Even
this conversation now, it's, it's a joy to be speaking with you. And this is what we're talking about before. This is success where you're in. I bet it's true where you get to discuss what you love to do with other people who get it. And if there's people out there that are listening to this right now, and they're, hopefully can give you a bit of inspiration, a bit of hope to
keep on keeping on and more power to you, right. For sharing it.
Rae Leigh: oh, and. thank you. And like, I appreciate you, and the dog and everyone that was there because without that space, um, I wouldn't be doing music. You know, it, was such a, a big part of my development in who I was. I didn't even realize that being able to write songs was a gift. You know, I thought everyone could do it. And there was no way in hell that I was ever going to share mine with anyone. So,
Luke O'Shea: That's cool, man.
Rae Leigh: I, I knew nothing about country that before the deck, so.
You know, you just got to you, you are where you are for whatever reason, I think. And I believe that we always have what we need. We don't always get what we want, but I think we, I do believe that we always have everything we need and sometimes we need a challenge.
We need to be challenged in our beliefs and, rocking up to a country music song. Writing retreat was a challenge for me initially.
Luke O'Shea: Yeah, well, it, wasn't
just counting easy. Like there's a thing where we, if you're a songwriter, it doesn't matter what style you're just going to ride it like this. I could share with you a. The range of stuff has said, listen to the Pymble stuff and that's not country at all. I've got another project going on at the moment called max join the love makers.
And that's electronic. It's just electronic dance music being fused with, um, some pretty organic country, some, but it's just, man, I've got a jazz swing projects going on. You just, if you're a songwriter, you just write. And so, but you started. Well, the thing is you start to realize that,
See my favorite genre of music is I just have to call it the great gray void. My favorite writers all fall into that gray void that doesn't have a brand. They are just great summarize. And then
melody, are they folk? No. Are they country now? Are they rock? No, they're just great. They should just have your Joan record.
Rae Leigh: Right.
Luke O'Shea: But unfortunately, The great genre, this, the magnificent genre, but the thing is there's no industry to sustain them.
They've got no magazine, they've got no festivals, they've got no media. They got no radio station link-ups and all that saying. So they just disappeared because this is now under sustain them. And that's the heartbreaking thing. So when you decide. Okay, well, I'm going to become country. Then you become ingrained in that. industry or, and that, that, that sustains you. And then you understand Ocala right. To stay within this industry. It's not as if
you, you know, your. You're writing songs like that all the time. You know, you just write for your audience to a degree, as long as you're staying true to yourself. If that that's the balance you you're writing from your heart space, but you also got
to say, okay, this has to connect with people out there. And then you, get to a point where you've got their ear and then once you've got their ear and then you've got their following. And they're prepared to kind of follow you on your journey, artistic journey. Then you can really explore your own heart, you know, but you have to kind of at the start of it, find
that way of connecting with them first by touching into their world and being established within that particular genre.
It's kind of funny now because you know, I'm 52, 53, I'm 53 now. And all of a sudden I'm just being. Kind of
discovered by the fixe scene and, uh, I'm rolling up to all these spiked festivals that I've never been part of before and they gone. Wow. And I'm just going, wow, where have you guys played any of their long time, but, uh, I've never really crust just that really small bridge from country and the fact, but I'm
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Luke O'Shea: just discovering each other for the first time.
And it's just been. Unreal. You never stop growing that's for sure.
Rae Leigh: And I love how country does have so much space to broaden shoulders into different genres and allow you to express yourself, within reason, however you like. And that's really reassuring for me because I still, you know, I don't know who I am. I know what I love and I know whether I like something or I don't like something, but, yeah, you never know.
And I think that's okay. It's beautiful to have that flexibility of just do what feels good, have fun with it. And if other people like it great, if they don't, they don't, you, you did talk a bit a bit about that great genre, which I like. That's a good idea. We should pitch someone to Spotify of having the genre where we can just take.
Great.
Luke O'Shea: It's the Austin.
Rae Leigh: but if you could collaborate or co-wrote with anyone in the world that are alive, who would it be and why?
Luke O'Shea: John Prine obviously passed the time. He had such a, a way of saying so much in so few words in own, such simple melody, that, which would just. Yeah, right open. Yeah, he's making, it was a bit like, I love the Bruce. Springsteen's love, you know, Bob Seeger's of the world and all those guys, It's just, you know, John Williamson, the way he's poetry can come through, it's in song, you know, that's, it's the people that paint really strong visual imagery
Rae Leigh: Um,
Luke O'Shea: in a really short amount of time. And that's hard to do. In an openness Samasta is out there. And I'm trying to think Australian wise, like there's some magnificent writers, like you met Jeff Gibson, Gibson at the dag, and he's a shear from an angered Tang, but he's probably one of the best lyrics to surround.
I call him the, the jump on of Australia. You know what I mean? He's just phenomenal, you know? And is this.
You know, there's some really like KB can bene he's just a great writer. It's just, you know, the way he puts words together And marries it with energy and mojo it's cuckold swag, and,
Rae Leigh: well he's
Luke O'Shea: you know,
Rae Leigh: much fun as any that one, like, I don't think I've ever seen him rush
Luke O'Shea: And the fact that he's, he's turned 70 this year. You just doesn't factor in, you know, like it's the same, it's it's you don't age when you're playing music, they are just there they're model, it's just, if you see spirit, you know, you feel it, you know, so yeah, those guys they're just great writers, great people.
Rae Leigh: cool. I'm going to get all of your socials and your music and put it into the description of the podcast. And there'll be a blog on the website songwritertrsyts.com.
