#259 Tim James
In this inspiring episode of Songwriter Trysts, Rae Leigh sits down with Nashville-based Grammy award winning singer-songwriter Tim James, whose journey to success is as unconventional as it is remarkable. Born and raised in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, Tim shares his path from sales jobs in Los Angeles to becoming a successful songwriter in Nashville. Despite setbacks, including painting houses after a publishing deal fell through, Tim took a leap of faith and committed to his passion for music. This decision led him to sign with a publishing company owned by Toby Keith, which resulted in his first single, "My List," hitting number one and being featured on over 11 million albums. Tim's story of risk-taking, perseverance, and eventual success in the music industry offers hope and motivation to all aspiring songwriters. Tune in to hear more about his journey, the challenges he faced, and the lessons learned along the way.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to another songwriters Trysts with a very special guest, all the way from Nashville, Tim James. Thank you for joining me.
Tim James: You are very welcome. I appreciate you having me.
Rae Leigh: I'm looking forward to it. You've done some incredible things. So I like to get everyone to start though, by introducing themselves, tell us who are you and where do you come from and what do you do?
Tim James: Yeah, my name is Tim James. I was actually born and raised in a little town south of Nashville called Murfreesboro, Tennessee, which is where I still reside. I lived in Los Angeles when I was from, I guess 23 to 35. Much of which I don't remember, but no, it was great. And yeah, I'm a singer songwriter.
I've been, my career path has probably drastically different than most. If you want me to tell you that story, I'd love to hear
Rae Leigh: that. Yeah.
Tim James: Yeah I always say when I'm playing on stage, writer shows I I had very little direction when I was young and I got kicked out of one college and flunked out of another.
And yeah, college.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Tim James: Not my proudest moment, but I moved to LA at 23 and I was in sales. I got into different various sales jobs. I eventually landed in pharmaceutical sales. Yeah, which is a great job. And then probably 34, 35 years old. I started making trips back here to Nashville.
And I just got to a place in life where I was like, you know what, this is not what I want to do. I don't want to sell cough syrup anymore.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Tim James: I want to write music and play music. So I took a gigantic risk, which I think, a lot of people in this business, you take these risks. But in some cases, very little chance of a payoff.
I decided to throw everything including the kitchen sink at, Music. And so at 37 ish I moved back to Tennessee and started with nothing. Yeah. Wow. Like I, yeah, quit my job moved back here, got divorced in LA and came back here and just went from scratch. I signed a publishing deal. As and I don't know if your listeners know, all songs have publishers.
Anything that's copywritten has a publisher. So that Nashville is chock full of publishing houses.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Tim James: And I signed a small publishing deal. Which, certainly felt like validation.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Encouragement.
Tim James: Yeah. Encouragement. I was like, man, I got signed and this is great. And then I was there for about a year and a half and they decided to close up shop.
Rae Leigh: And
Tim James: I, yeah, not good. And I was now, at an age where so many people were either out of the business or they'd had massive success. And I was in my late thirties going, what have I done? I made this giant mistake. And then I was painting houses for a living. I was a painter. Yeah, I don't mean Van Gogh.
Like outside, up and down, I got to a place where I was like, I've got to have something happen or I'm going to go back to work. And I got signed to a company that Toby Keith owned and Toby, yeah, he was going to sign three writers. He signed me and two other guys.
And then he came in because he owned the publishing at that point. He came in and said, I'm going to cut some songs from this catalog. I was the only writer out of the three who had signed the contract because I didn't care. I was like I'm broke. I'll sign it.
Rae Leigh: I don't know if I just,
Tim James: yeah.
So I signed it. He came in, cut a song of mine. It was my first single to go to radio in spring of 2001, and it was called My List. My list. Yeah, it went on. Thank you. It went on to be number one for five weeks and has since been on 11 million albums because this was a day and age when, excuse me, people sold albums.
So his first album sold 3 million copies, greatest hits, two greatest hits, three greatest hits, the, all those compilations. So that song's now been on over 11 million records. So that was my entry into the music business. And I was like, Oh, this is easy. First single. And it's not when that
Rae Leigh: happens,
Tim James: not easy at all.
Yeah, that was my entry. Into the biz. Since then I've just, I stayed with it and I've had some success for which I'm very grateful.
Rae Leigh: That's, it's such an incredible journey. And I have so many questions about that journey because I feel like it's very relatable. So the whole phrase of don't quit your day job had you never heard that or you just decided to ignore everyone?
What was the catalyst to go, I'm just going to quit and do music now?
Tim James: To be honest with you. Yeah, I, I. I'd heard that saying my own parents said, you are crazy. You're quitting a job that pays this kind of money. And I said, yeah, I know that. I'm well aware of the fact that I'm slightly off because all of us are, you wouldn't be doing, I just had lunch with the guy today.
Who signed this guy Shaboozie
Rae Leigh: and
Tim James: he's got like the number one global song in the world globally. And he was talking about how Shaboozie is he's always second guessing and I was like, dude, that's like all of us, you, me, we have an artist mentality. But yeah, to answer your question, I heard it more than once.
But I just I guess I'm the person that if I say I'm going to do something, I guess the best analogy I can give you is I graduated from high school and I played some high school sports. My senior year, I got cut from the basketball team because, I don't know, different reasons, but the coach decided it's going to let me go.
I was so determined and looking back so hard headed. That I said, you know what, I'm going to show him I'm going to go play college basketball. So I stayed out of college for a year and did nothing but train like I, seven days a week lifting, I'd seen Rocky, it's like big montage, playing basketball
Rae Leigh: every day.
Yeah. Yeah. So I was
Tim James: like, you know what? I'm going to do this. After a year, I walked on to a small college and made the team. And, that attitude, that mentality pays off in the music business, you're going to get exponentially more kicks in the butt than you are pats on the back.
Rae Leigh: Yes. I think we're all nodding with you and agreeing with you there. It's it's a very challenging thing, but you have to have that mentality of I'll show you like almost, and it's not arrogance or stubbornness. It's just belief in oneself, even when other people don't believe in you, if you've got to believe in yourself.
Tim James: Oh, I totally agree. I don't know that is something that people necessarily verbalize, but I think internally you have to say to yourself, I can do this. Now the flip side of that, to me. Again, because I'm a sports guy is you gotta, I had to say to myself at some point in my journey that I was never gonna play in the NBA.
I was never gonna, 'cause I had delusions. What I realized with music was that I had some innate talent but I had to cultivate it. I came back here and I went to the Bluebird and I started working with people that have had hit songs. And I was like, Oh no, I am so far behind the curve. It's amazing.
So I definitely dug in and for 10 years, I wrote two songs a day and I tried to sponge off of everybody and excuse me figure out the best way for me to make up for lost time, so to speak. So yeah, the catalyst back to your question. My first mulligan wife, that's a golf term that if you need another one, so yeah, I've got two.
I'm 0 for two, Ray, 0 for two. I, my first wife was an actress in LA and I would sit around and play and sing. And she would say, because she was an actress, knee deep in the arts. She said, why are you not doing this full time? I was still selling cough syrup.
Rae Leigh: Right.
Tim James: And I said because my family's very blue collar and they were like, you need a JOB.
Whatever you do, making music is a hobby.
Rae Leigh: My family lives the same. Yeah. You
Tim James: know how it is.
I just said, she told me that and I was like, okay, maybe she's right. Then I put a band together. And then I started playing, up and down the west coast and even still I had moments and I still do where I go, this guy named Steve Bogard, who's had seven number ones.
He said, every time I get a hit, I say I fooled him again.
Rae Leigh: I like that. And that's
Tim James: That's me. So my, my friend Tammy Holtzman wrote a book and one of the chapters is dedicated to the imposter syndrome.
Rae Leigh: I
Tim James: think we all I have a gig this weekend. In North Carolina with my friend Rivers Rutherford, who's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and my friend Kelly Lovelace, who's had 17 number one songs.
Rae Leigh: And
Tim James: it's still a little daunting to, get on stage. You have to figure out what you're good. In my case, my dad would say, know when to take advantage of an advantage. So what's your advantage? So for me, I was like I'm going to have to try to be funny or something, so yeah, it's worked out.
It's worked out great, but I, we all have moments as creative people where we go, I'm good at this, but what am I doing? And you bounce back and forth the ultimate validation. Is, you've got a song that goes to the radio and you're driving down the road and you turn on, a major country radio station, you hear Toby Keys or George Strait singing your song and you go, you know what, all those people that said, no, can now kiss my,
Rae Leigh: Good feeling, isn't it? We work for that feeling. Yeah,
Tim James: exactly. That's exactly right. We work for that.
Rae Leigh: I love that. And I really love that non defeatist attitude that you have of I'm not going to let someone tell me what I can or cannot do. The sky's the limit. If I want to do this, I will. And I also have that.
My parents told me I couldn't be a doctor. And so I went and did a medical degree and then I finished the degree. So I'm like, I proved I could do it, but now I think I want to do arts instead. I'm
Tim James: sure they loved that.
. That's just who I am. But I also, as a woman, I feel like it's maybe tenfold because we're always told that we can't do things.
Rae Leigh: And yeah don't ever tell a woman what she can't do. That's for sure.
Tim James: Yeah I'm, I would never do that. I would, and again, I'm the guy, to be honest with you, if I speak at NSAI meetings or do a, teach a class or whatever, I go, I'm probably the wrong person to have, if your parents are saying to you, don't quit your day job because I'm the guy that says, yeah, you know what, I quit my day job, I chunked it all, the money, everything.
And I said, this is what I want to do. And. I'm bound and determined to do it. And I had my first number one song. Was in 2001 with Toby, like I was telling you, and I was 40 years old.
Rae Leigh: Wow. And that's that's, it's an important story to share because there are so many ages for you. I don't know if it's like that necessarily in America, but in Australia, if you want to go on to songwriting shows or if you want to have any success or get signed, once you're over the age of 27 or 28, it's almost like that's, it's a joke.
Like you're like, you're joking that you actually, like I entered the industry at 31. I couldn't sing in public before then or share original music before then and I have three kids. So I'm a mother, I'm a woman and I'm in my thirties and like trying to do music and I get that all the time. People are like, what are you doing?
But I don't know. You just got to hear those stories where it's I made it when I was 40 and that's okay. And actually, that's amazing because you tried because what happened imagine if you didn't I
Tim James: really, as cliche as that sounds, I really did not want to look back at my age now and go, yeah, I never tried.
I was like, no, I'm going to give this a go. And then, once you have some success, I think again, it provides validation. So you're saying to yourself, okay, I can do this. And then you just, you got to do the work. I will say that my, I always tell the story about writing with Mike Reed, who wrote, I can't make you love me.
And, he's had 10 number one songs. He's a great singer songwriter. He's also an ex professional football player, not Aussie rules, but he's an NFL football, I know you guys don't count that as football, but he is, he's a bad dude as they say in the States. And so I went to write with him after I'd had a number one song and he's a great piano player and we're sitting there and he starts playing these piano, these melodies and these riffs.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so good. And so then we started something and he was like, nah, man, it's not any good. And I was like dang. And so finally we decided we weren't going to get anything. Which I was disappointed in, but nonetheless, We're sitting there talking and he's six, six, and it's got like bear claw hands.
And I said man, what's the secret to this thing? And he looked like he had his feathers ruffled and he said, secret. He said, the secret is to show up for work. And so from that day on, I thought if a guy that talented is going to show up for work, I damn sure have to,
Rae Leigh: yeah. Yeah, I think I did a podcast with someone else's podcast the other day, and that's what I said, show up.
I think fear and that imposter syndrome, though, can stop us and I've seen it happen. And I definitely, in my 20s, definitely didn't show up out of fear or just fear of rejection or failure or anything like that, or fear of the unknown. And that, I think, Gets in the way of so much talent and fun.
Tim James: I agree with you. Unfortunately that's reality. If you don't have fear and people to me having lived a lot of life, people that say, yeah, I'm not scared of anything. Yeah. That you're lying. We're all scared of something. I just decided in regards to music that I was going to overcome my fears.
One of my he's he passed away, but he was called the mayor of music road, Charlie Monk. Charlie Monk said to me once, he said, ma'am, you're going to do this or not like you could work a day job. You could be a mom with three kids, but you're going to find time to do this because this is who you are.
And that hit me to the point that I was like, You know what, this is who I am. And again, I'll give you these stories. They're all in my book, by the way, shameless self promotion. But I was in the grocery store after I'd had a five week number one song, but it had been like three years since I'd had that.
And I thought, okay, I'm like a one hit wonder. Like I'm the Milli Vanilli of country music. I just, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like not good. And. And I go into the grocery store and I just said to myself, like an hour before that, I was like, forget this, man, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to go back and get a day job.
I had one hit that's more than a lot of people. And I go into the grocery and I hear this like old Stevie wonder song. And I'm just bopping along and saying, I pay for my groceries. I go to the car. And I pick up my phone and I sing this melody. It was based off what I'd felt from the Stevie Wonder song into the phone.
And then I just put it away and I'm driving home and I went, I didn't even think about that. That just happened. And then it hit me like, no matter what I'm doing, I'm always going to do that because I can't. Now I would tell you the, as probably, I have two daughters I don't want you to have kids.
That whole sleep thing is out the window. And even when they get older, mine are both 19 and 16, they drive. I had a hit with Trace Adkins years ago called all I asked for anymore. And it was a prayer, which look, all I want you to do is take care of my wife and kids. People like creative people, most of the ones I know, they don't sleep.
They're constantly overanalyzing, second guessing, overthinking, and that's me. If I would have known, if I would have known this, I would have invested in Ambien 20 years ago.
Rae Leigh: Wouldn't we all, there's a lot of things I think we would have done. That's the overthinking part of us.
Tim James: That's it.
Rae Leigh: You have done a lot and you're incredibly talented. Did you always, was it always the songwriting or were you wanting to like record and release your own music at any point or?
Tim James: Yeah, I did. When I first started out, I put a band together and it was fun. I think like you just mentioned this when I hit the road with a band and in the country clubs in LA the Valley I was 30.
Three, 34, 35 years old. So when I would come home and play, like the stuff that I'd written and recorded, hands down, the people I would meet with would go, how old are you? And the reality is they're not signing 30 something now in today's world. If you're on a TV show. You might have a chance, but in the old days, they're not signing and probably not now they're not signing people that are, 30 something years old.
So after, oddly enough, I did a show in Reno, Nevada in front of 5, 000 people. And I opened the Portobe key before he even knew who I was. Talk about like full circle moment.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Tim James: Yeah. So I had done some shows. Decent reputation on the West coast. And then somebody called me and said, do you want to open the Reno, the rodeo in Reno, Nevada for Toby Keith?
And I'm like, as my Australian friend says, does a one legged duck swim in circles? Yeah, of course. So I went and did it, but again, I'm like being incredibly transparent. I played and the reception was great. I walked off stage and went back to the dressing room and thought that's it for me. That's as good as I'm ever going to get.
That's my highlight moment, but I also realized that I was just too old. At the time I was probably 30, like I said, 36, 37. I'd been back here. I emulated a Dwight Yoakam kind of sound.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Because
Tim James: I love the West coast kind of country and the people at the, at that particular time, people back here were like no, we got a Dwight Yoakam.
So yeah I got to a place where I was like, man, I need to focus on what I can do and what I can do well. And that was writing songs.
Rae Leigh: I'm glad that you didn't just give up and that you continue to write songs and that you're still doing it. Can you tell me a bit more about like When you said you did the deep dive and you had some catching up to do, what did you, what were some of the first things that you did to go okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do it right. How did you immerse yourself into it other than just showing up?
Tim James: Yeah I'm I'm a believer in preparation. And so when I lived in LA, I would get these, all these magazines and, the music connection and they listed like gigs that were available. And then I would, I reached out to an old friend that lived in Nashville and was like, man, he was with one of the performance rights organizations.
He was with CSAC, and I'm a BMI writer, but he was with CSAC, and I called him and I met with him, but I had already, as the word you used, I'd already immersed myself. And the subject matter. So when people said, okay, this is a straight pub deal or a co pub deal, or, you're going to get a draw against, or you're going to get all of the terminology, all the publishing information.
So that when I did sit down with somebody, I was well versed in it. Nowadays, I feel like a lot of people younger people come here and that they ask questions and I go, man, you should not be asking me these questions, you should read up on this because as again, I'm full of like useless analogies, one of my other friends, Chris Dubois, who has written probably 15 number one songs.
He owns a publishing company. That's just knocked the bottom out of it. When I first came home, he said he said, listen, man, the reality is that Nashville is the major leagues. Again, sports analogy. He said, Nashville's the major leagues. He said you're on the bench because you do have some talent, but you're not close to being in the game.
So again, I had to, from a business standpoint, yeah, I definitely dug in from a creative standpoint. And I would encourage everybody to do this, your listeners or. And you can disagree. That's fine. I encourage people. I have people that they'll say, let me play you something. And they play me something and I go.
Now, let me ask you a question. Does that sound like anything? What's your objective? And they go, I want to be on country radio. I want to get a major label cut and I want to have, I want to hear my song on radio. Okay. Does what you just played me sound like anything that's on the radio for that matter, does it sound like anything?
Go buy a again, I'm dating myself. Go buy a Garth Brooks album. Go buy a George Strait album. Does the song you played me called grandma's honey biscuits sound like anything? No, is the answer to that. So
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Tim James: exactly. Be real. You got to realize, what your competition is and you have to step up to the competition.
If you don't. This place will, it'll swallow you whole.
Rae Leigh: I think that's a good reality check. And also some real, real hard truths for people to go away and go, what am I actually doing? And what do I really want? And they're questions that as creative, sometimes we don't want, we're afraid to ask those questions of ourselves.
But I don't know about you, but once I set a goal, I'll achieve it. But then I, once I achieve that goal, I have to go back and go, Oh, now what, now what am I going to do? And then reset a new goal. And that's can, it's a cycle.
Tim James: Yeah, there's no question. Yeah it's a vicious cycle.
And I do, I find myself going, still, I've had success. I just say, what's like in the last six months, I got two songs on a Kenny Chesney record. I got one on a Chris Stapleton record and one George Strait record. And I, and again, if I'm being honest, That was in the last six let's say eight months, a year ago honestly, and I'm still have a publishing deal with a guy who's a great publisher and he's a great guy, so he keeps me employed and he's glad he did it because he owns the pub on these two Kenny Chesney songs, but a year ago I was like, I'm done, like I'm done.
And I had to reevaluate and say, okay, what does the next few years of my life? What's that going to look like? And about the time I said I'm forget this man. I've had a good run. I've had a hundred and something songs cut. Three number one songs, five top 10 songs of Grammy. Like I'm a guy that started, I went to the Grammy awards and my buddy said, let me get this straight 10 years ago, you're selling cough syrup.
And now you're here for the grant. I was like, yeah, but I was a year ago, maybe nine months ago. I was in Florida on vacation. My buddy texted me and said, Hey man. Have you seen the Stapleton album cover? And I was like, no, why would I? He said, pull it up on the Internet. And I pull it up. And there's a song we wrote 15 years ago that he put on his new album.
So that goes back to what you and I were talking about in the very beginning. Do the work because the two songs that the one of the Chesney songs are new the Stapleton song is 15 years old and the one that George Drake cut on this new project is 16 years old
Rae Leigh: That's so crazy.
Tim James: Yeah, so it means
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Tim James: it's me Oh my gosh, I mean I and that's what I mean.
I'm the wrong guy People listen to it and their parents hear it and go, no, you better not quit your day job like me. I go, you know what? Quit it. Do what you love. Life is too short to wake up one day. And it's a struggle. The reality raised that being a medical doctor is a struggle. Being a, if you're going to struggle with something you
Rae Leigh: love.
Do something you're proud of.
Tim James: That's it.
If you could give one piece of advice, and you've already given so much advice for that because I usually say for someone just starting out, what about for someone who has had a bit of success and maybe they're on the other side of the curtain, the curtain that people walk through when they're just starting out.
Rae Leigh: Now they're on the other side of the curtain and maybe they're feeling like they've had a bit of success, but they're still struggling and they didn't realize it was going to still be hard because you've done this for so long and you keep going like a train, you just chugging along. What's been the thing that's gotten you through in those moments when you've almost wanted to turn off the engine?
Tim James: Alcohol. No, I don't know this message. Yeah, exactly. My old roommate in LA was Australian. He's, I don't know, what part of Australia are you in?
Rae Leigh: I'm on the Gold Coast. So near Brisbane, Queensland.
Tim James: They are their names are Costas and Louis Mandalore. I don't know if you've ever heard of those guys.
They're successful actors. And they're Australians, but he would, I would say, you want to go get a beer and he would say, you want to go get a pint of boop and he would call it something else, and I would say, who calls beer that they're like, we do, but man, I don't, I think you answer that question before you even ask it do keep showing up, push through, like I choose to, and this is weird, I try not to think about my past successes.
I try to say, I try to for instance, I'm writing tomorrow with a guy that one of my oldest friends, and then this other guy who's a new potential artist, and he's with Sony. I don't know if anything's going to come of it at all, but I got to go show up and I got to do the work. So I try to say my.
my successes don't affect my tomorrow. Now it might affect my pocketbook. But it, as far as, me thinking about, I just don't do it. I never, and maybe I should. Sometimes I feel like I'm now you're my therapist all of a sudden. I definitely don't think a lot about the past or the struggles or and again, my book talks about all of this, my personal struggles, twice divorced and my brother passed away two years ago, my dad passed away.
That's all part of life. You push and maybe when I'm saying it out loud, maybe that mentality is the same when you get. The curtain opened, you still say I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep pushing. I'm going to get up the next morning and I'm going to go. And in our case, our creatives case, go to work and love like crazy.
The course to love like crazy is. Be a best friend, tell the truth, overuse, I love you, go to work, do your best and don't outsmart your common sense. It's you know what? Get your butt up and go to work. You never know. And that's another good example. My dad passed away 14 years ago and we were real close.
And about two weeks after my dad passed away, I was supposed to write with a guy named Doug Johnson, who's had multiple hit songs. And I wasn't going to go. I was like, nah, I'm not in the head space. I live on a golf course. I was like, I'm just going to go play golf. And then I could hear my dad who'd only been passed away for two weeks.
I could hear my dad say, go to work. Went to write with Doug Johnson that day and wrote Love Like Crazy that day.
Rae Leigh: How would you know? You wouldn't have known if you didn't show up. That's it. Sometimes you don't feel like it and you just got to do it anyway. Yeah. I love that.
Tim James: I do it all the time.
Rae Leigh: Tell me about this book.
Tim James: The book is basically the stories kind of the ones we're talking about. Again, life is everybody deals with disappointment. Everybody deals with the pitfalls of personal life, creativity, professional life. It doesn't matter. I, about four years ago got a divorce for the second time, not my choice, after 20 years with two kids.
And it was a rough patch again, but between being creative and then going through that and for all intents and purposes, somebody saying, I'm going to take your kids. For 50 percent of the time, that's the most painful thing. I told my buddy I had lunch with today, but for two years, I would drop them off at their mother's and I would just ball like a baby, just cry.
Like uncontrollably. So eight years ago, I started this book I played the blue bird and I told my story, the one I told you, like flunked out of college, never been on an airplane, went to LA. When I was in LA for six months. I got jumped by a gang and I had my head split open. I had my jaw wired shot.
And I was telling all these stories. And after the gig, this lady comes up and says, okay, I'm an agent. I booked. like speakers and things like that. That's the, one of the most inspiring stories I've ever heard. You move back here with nothing. You were painting houses. You ended up with a number one song and now you've had other number.
It's fascinating. So I went home and just again, in the name of doing the work, I just sat down, started typing on my computer. This was eight years ago. I'm a believer in the, the adage that work begets work. So I started it and I would find myself the next night going after everybody's bed, I think I'm going to work on that some more. So I started it and then it's every chapter starts with a song, the lyrics from a song that influenced that particular chapter and or period of my life. But it covers not only my professional experiences, which for the most part have been wonderful.
It covers the mental health aspect of you were talking about in the beginning of this conversation about, don't tell a woman she can't do something men are afraid to talk about. Men are afraid to talk about mental health.
Rae Leigh: And
Tim James: I'm not like I, when I got divorced, I, it was a tough time.
So I started the book and then the more I wrote about it, the more I wrote about it, and it started when it's I always say it, it the trajectory was. I wrote this book when life was at its peak. I'd been to the Grammy Awards. I and I, again, I'm a, I'm from a small town. I sold cough syrup.
I'm at the Grammy Awards nominated for Song of the Year. Yeah. And I'm as, trust me, I was as surprised as anybody else, but, so it's here, and then my dad died and then my wife divorced me. And I don't use the word I would never use the word clinical or the words clinical depression because I'm not really, I'm not well versed in that enough to speak on it.
I will tell you that I was depressed.
The book started as a labor of love, if you will, like me just saying, man, I just want to tell my story and maybe somebody will get some inspiration from it. It became more about my experiences, not only in the music business, which again, I think. That people that read it would learn a tremendous amount about the ins and outs of the business.
I talk about my experiences with art, Toby Keith and Darius Rucker, George Strait and so forth. And so I talk about the process of writing songs. I'll talk about the songs that inspired me. As I was saying, every song, every chapter starts with a song, whether it be a Beatles song or a Billy, something that inspired me at that point in my life.
But going through a divorce four years ago. And again, having you just, it's part of the deal. Your kids, you can reframe that a thousand different ways. The reality is that your kids are gone for, they come here for a week and then you don't see them for, you can go see them, but as far as I don't know how old your kids are, but
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Tim James: Going and tucking them in or going and just hugging them at bedtime. That's out. And that getting through that and then just, again, dealing with the difficulties that creative people face, you couple those things together and it became a situation where I would say to my friends, I feel like I'm going crazy now.
I never, not once, did I ever think, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna act on this. I just, and that's why the book is called Going Crazy. The subtitle is Left Foot, Foot Breathe. Because one of my friends, I said, dude, I am I feel like I'm playing a handball with the curb, like that's how low I am. And he was like, listen, get up tomorrow, left foot, right foot, breathe.
And the book is very detailed, detailed in terms of, we have been conditioned and taught certainly as men will don't be angry. I completely disagree. Feel your anger. I used anger as my motivation. There were times I would, as you and I discussed in the business where people would say, Yeah, I had a guy say you're never gonna make it.
That was the first response I got when I came to Nashville. And I was like, That pissed me off. I'm sorry. That ticked me off to the point that I was like, this is an
Rae Leigh: Australian podcast, you can
Tim James: curse all you like, you know what I'll show him. So with the, with, your kids being gone and then the, your creative and you can say maybe I'll write a song about it.
Or I'll, I did all of that. I still found myself in my moments alone with no partner. going, what in the actual hell happened to my life? Because again, if you look on the outside, looking in, people go, you had a number one song at 40. You're not 40 any longer, and you're still getting cut. You've had number ones with George Strayed and Toby Keith, Lee Bryce.
I've had. You're resilient. Yeah. I am. Resilience is the name, my middle name. Like I got kicked in the so many times that I just said, I will not stay down. So that's the book. The book is covers, like I said, not only professional experiences and the trials and tribulations that I've experienced in the music business.
But also personally where I hope and the people that have read it, the reviews I've gotten people that have emailed me or my friends who said, man, I took such inspiration from that because you do focus on mental health and the idea of saying you, you find a way anyway, to get through this crap. And that's what I did.
And I, my analogy for that is, if you go to the Gulf coast of Florida, you got to walk through the little bit of muddy water to get to the clear, that's just the way it is. Once you're out beyond the sandbar, you see this incredibly beautiful, deep blue, clear ocean. And I always used to say to myself, that's life.
You walk through that muddy water, but you keep walking. And when you get to the end of it, the water clears up.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. My, my grandma used to always say everyone walks through hell. The idea is to not stop and have a picnic.
Tim James: I love that. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: She was a very resilient woman. It's. It's such an inspirational story and I'm really grateful that I'm hearing it now.
And I desperately want to go and read your book now, because I do think that it's something that a lot of creatives can relate to and relationships with creatives is hard and I feel empathy for my husband sometimes having to be with me, but also I think because creatives are so misunderstood in society and by people who aren't creative.
We're so different, aren't we? And it can be then hard to have relationship cause we need relationship just like everyone else. But I don't know about you, but often as well in relationships. The other person wants you to be more like them in their box. And when you don't fit in the box it, it creates a lot of conflict and we don't see a lot of resolution in life.
And it's good to tell stories that have that resolution, no matter what that clear water looks like, that's the resolution we need to be able to see it, to have hope that it's there. And we only have that by people like you telling your story. I'm so grateful that you did your book.
And that tells me you have such a big heart that you care about people and you care about people that will be impacted by this. You have no idea and probably will never even meet or hear about. And that's a hard thing as a creative that you sometimes never understand or will ever see just how impactful what you are doing and all the work you've done is going to have not only is it having now, but like he's going to have like long after you're gone You should be so incredibly proud of what you've achieved.
I hope. I hope you are.
Tim James: Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. Again I have those moments, but for the most part, I go, what's next? And that's not a great place to live. But I don't want, I don't want to discount my success. I also don't want to rest on my laurels. Like I still work. I'm, I have, I'm writing tomorrow.
I have a gig this weekend. I have a gig to follow me. So I'm out there still doing it. And I do, have moments where I go, man, do I want to, do something else the minute. And this, the minute you get on stage and you sing the first note. I can still sing the opening, I can play it, the opening to Love Like Crazy and I sing the first line and inevitably people just, it's that deep gasp and they go, Oh my God, that was my parents.
That was my grandpa. I so love that song. And I go, you know what? I made that shit up. Never
Rae Leigh: let the truth get in the way of a good story, right?
That's the creative saying, I reckon. No, I've really, I really and I guess from someone who is doing the work at the moment your story, it's my vision of Clearwater in the future where I'm heading, hopefully one day and you have to just have that. And even just hearing like.
Where you're at I hope to be in that space one day where I'm just like, I get to get up and go write a song, another song tomorrow. And if that's the worst case scenario then, I think that's, we're doing all right. So yeah, no, and I hope that you're doing better as well and that you've got, good relationship with your kids and family and good friends around you as well.
Cause that's so important.
Tim James: It is. And I definitely do. My kids and our clothes. And like I said, you realize that if you just keep going, that there's beauty, there's something every day that you can be thankful for. And I try to say, man, I used to play in this basketball game with, I don't It doesn't matter now, but with George Clooney and Woody Harrelson and all my, they're all my friends from LA.
My buddy, I was talking to my buddy today Danny Carey, who's the drummer in a band called tool and they're wildly successful. They're a metal band, but nonetheless all those guys were old friends of mine and Denzel used to play in our game and he would just always say, man, have an attitude of gratitude.
I love that. I try to do that. So I also think it's funny because when I first moved back, I had a couple of hits and this one guy wrote with his head, like 40 number ones. He said, never do it for the money. And I used to always say, that's true, but that's easier when you've got 50 million in the bank.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. Someone said money's like air. You don't think about it when you got plenty, but when you haven't got any, you got to think about it. You don't, you can't suffocate. You've got to take care of your basic needs.
Tim James: That's it.
Rae Leigh: I was telling someone actually yesterday at a meeting, it's like music is a business and no one is very successful going into a business without some sort of investment or capital to launch that business.
And it gives them time and space to do the business development and the business growth and everything that you earned has got to go straight back into the business. And so you do, you need to be able to take care of your basic human needs so that you have the space and energy and time to commit to growing that business.
And it's not something that I've heard a lot of people talk about. When they talk about doing music more often, it's I've quit my job and I have nothing. And now I've got to desperately scrounge around to try and make enough money to eat. And that's not very conducive for a creative mind either.
Although I do also think being too comfortable is also not conducive for a creative mind. So there's like a happy medium.
Tim James: I agree with
Rae Leigh: You've worked with so many amazing people and I always ask people who would you like to work with dead or alive?
Is there someone that like really inspires you or has inspired you that you haven't worked with that you would wish you could have worked with? Or maybe they're not around anymore, but you wish you had that chance.
Tim James: Man, I don't know that I've ever thought about nor has anybody asked me that.
I, I hate to say it, but I would have loved to have spent a day with Frank Sinatra,
Yeah, he's like a man's man. He's a great singer and he liked to drink and smoke. I don't smoke, but yeah somebody like that. In the country genre, my book, the Ford Toby Keith wrote the Ford to the book and Toby Keith knew that he was deathly ill.
And I spent, again, I was a guy that got such a late start. There was a time when I was on the bus with him and it's Mel Tillis is on the bus and my dad's heroes are on the bus and Toby and I'm a sports guy. So Barry Sanders All these crazy athletes. They're just, and they're just raising hell and, drinking and I am standing there like a sponge, like just soaking it all in.
And so I loved working with Toby. We only wrote a handful of songs. He never recorded any of the songs we wrote, my list was one of his biggest songs. So yeah, he was great. Sinatra somebody like that was, those guys are, to me, they're gifted. Like I can sing. I'm not a, I'm not a gifted singer, but I love guys like that.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: With charisma. It was more than talent. There was like presence with Mr. Blue Eyes. And yeah, I wish I got to meet him, but we just got to live with the memories. I appreciate that. Is there anything else you would like to say to songwriters out there or to anyone listening to this podcast?
Tim James: Yeah, all of my, if you want, and people do this all the time, all of my photos and information is at my website, which is the timjames. com. The book, you can buy it on that site. It's easier to buy it on Google or Amazon.
Just go to Amazon and look up going crazy. Does it
Rae Leigh: distribute to Australia? Where I need to,
Tim James: I would think so. Okay. That's the best way to buy the book. I really do think people will enjoy it. And again, I think songwriters will find it inspirational. , do the work, like right aside. And again, don't if you want to be in the market, listen to what's going on in the market. That's just reality. Like you have to say. Okay. And what is what I'm doing comparable to what's on the latest Luke Combs out. I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
Rae Leigh: All right. Thank you, Tim. Take
care.
