#119 Eden James
Eden James chats with Rae Leigh on a featured episode of Songwriter Trysts, he shares how he spent his birthday with Amy Winehouse, why a Brisbane newspaper helped his Dad accept that being a songwriter was a thing and how he ended up having some of the greatest musicians in today's world playing on his latest music while recording in New York City.
His Award-winning Music Video here: https://youtu.be/JhanxqwUX9Q
Aussie-born rocker Eden James has some sage relationship advice for the heartbroken. The international award-winning artist announces the upcoming release of his newly remixed blues-rock single, “Stranger,” a song about curing the break-up blues with a good old-fashioned bang. The new mix by Grammy Award-winning engineer Brian Paturalski (Aerosmith, Def Leppard, Silverchair) streaming on all major digital platforms now. “Stranger” is from James’ fourth studio album, All the Good Blank are Taken, set to release on Dandy Ram Records on July 9th.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Come to a, Songwriter Tryst with Eden James. Thank you so much for joining me at such an early, but late time for you.
Eden James: That thank you, Rae it's a pleasure to be here. It's I'm excited to have a conversation with you.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well, we're talking about your 5:00 PM where you are, where are you now?
Eden James: I'm in New York
Rae Leigh: New York and I'm in Australia, gold coast. I'm actually really close to Brisbane. Which is where you were born apparently. And we're both having a cup of tea because you said you've only just woken up because you were working all night.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: So I feel like we're on a level playing field. So the way I like to start is actually getting the artist in your own words. Tell us who and where do you come from?
Eden James: Okay. Who am I? All right. I had a number one hit song. I released four solo albums.
I spent a birthday with Amy Winehouse, I once bought Simon Pegg a beer. I like Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
And I want a stack of gold medals for swimming in my youth.
Rae Leigh: no way. That's cool. That's very interesting.
Eden James: we can talk about any of those. We can talk about any of those.
Rae Leigh: Amy, as is one of was one of, is one of my major inspirations and probably one of the only CDs I still have in my car that
Eden James: Is it back to black?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Eden James: because I don't even remember the next one that she did after that.
Rae Leigh: I have no idea. I probably should, but.
Eden James: so do you want to hear about that then?
Rae Leigh: Ooh. I do, but this is a really selfish question, but yeah, I want to know what happened, how that happened.
Eden James: So I ran into her at both our local pub which is a holy arm's in Camden in London.
So I was living in Camden at the time still doing music, but I was also working full time for a TV production company. And I took the day off for my birthday to have lunch with my friend. And I went to the holy arms and nobody was there.
It was lunchtime on a weekday. It was just empty.
I'm not kidding you. It was, I think I saw one person in the corner and there was me at the bar and nobody. So I was just, so
Rae Leigh: A person in the corner was the bartender, right?
Eden James: Yeah, maybe no, the button that was out behind in the kitchen somewhere. And So I was just waiting for them to come out and serve me.
And then this really short lady, five foot with a beehive in a sort of pink ladies jacket came up and stood next to me.
And I just looked at her and then I did the double glance because I realized who it was. And she wasn't actually that famous at the time because it was just like her debut album was just coming out.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: Because I was in the industry, I was, I knew what was going on. I was a hip cat, you know,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eden James: so I knew who she was.
Yeah. I I thought, wow.
I just thought to myself that's any house. And, she looked at me and gave a nod and we both just appreciate it.
Acknowledged that we're both waiting to be served
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Eden James: as the bartender came out and. Took our orders and we both got some beers and then she got her beers and started walking upstairs to the terrorist. And I thought, well, that's where I'm going. I'm following Amy white house up the stairs. That's where I'm going.
So I went up there and I immediately became a stalker. So I followed her up there and she's with a group of friends and I sat at the table next to him and I just texted my friend.
Get here immediately. You will not believe who is here. I said, anyone houses here, get your ass down to the holy arms.
Rae Leigh: Uh,
Eden James: So my friend turns up eventually.
And in the meantime, I've just started chatting with her and her friends. And I told them it was my birthday. So, you know, obviously it was, yeah, it was party time and it was, we were all off the clock. And it was just a really nice time and it was great fun to meet her and have a chat with her friends.
And yeah, that, so that was my story about the birthday I spent with any white house.
Rae Leigh: that's like the best way to meet someone in the industry. I reckon like you start oh yeah, I've got to get backstage and we got a photo together.
You know, Yeah.
We met at the pub and hung out. That's cool. I love that. Okay. But we're talking about you today, but I mean, that, that, that was a story for Ray.
Tell me where music begins. Like when did you write your first song? How did this crazy life begin for you?
Eden James: I probably started when I was eight years old. I was in grade three and my drum teacher, actually before the drum teacher, the school said who wants to be, who wants to learn the drums and be a drummer in the school marching band.
Rae Leigh: Hmm.
Eden James: And now even at eight, I love music. I was a music fan on it. Music was an amazing thing to me. I was very interested in it. I used to put on my brother's vinyl records while my parents were watching TV in the lounge room and the stereo was in the lounge room as well. And I'd sit in the corner with my headphones on or not, but they weren't my headphones though. The families had phones
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah.
Eden James: and I'd put my brother's vinyl collection on and listen to things. And it just, it transported me to another world. I, was just blown away by the stories, the entertainment,
Professionalism, the production in the songs and the songwriting.
So when the school board said, who wants to learn the drums, I put up my hand and I was accepted in, and then the drummer told me this. So the drum teacher
Rae Leigh: yep.
Eden James: told me a fact that. Rung in my head forever. And it always, I think it was part of the motivation for becoming a songwriter. He said, oh, do you know that Paul McCartney makes one pound per minute for songwriting royalties or something like that. Right. And as an eight year old, you? know, I wasn't much of a a business genius, but at that time when I thought, Hmm, that sounds like it can be a a lucrative career. So. Yeah. that's what I'll do. So I knew at eight years old that I'd be a songwriter. That's I think that's quite early, you know?
Rae Leigh: Oh Yeah, You're like, Hey, I could just write some lyrics and someone will give me a pound. I could buy like a whole bag of candy with that. So
Eden James: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: very cool.
Eden James: Yeah.
And so, my early songs were probably, you know, 12, I think I remember writing songs when I was 12 years old and definitely when I was about 15, I got this Casio keyboard and I started writing songs on the Casio. And at that point I was, you know, I learned drums, so I was quite accomplished at drums, but I also had some music theory and my mother is a pianist.
And there's a piano in the living room.
Rae Leigh: And She told you,
Eden James: She didn't teach me, but she used to play to us often. So in mum plays by ear. So I thought I'll just, I'll try to learn by ear.
And I did. I wasn't that great at learning by ear, but that's still how I play today.
And I was a bit,
Rae Leigh: that.
Eden James: Yeah. I was a bit slow learning of playing by ear, but that, for me, that was the most, I think it was the fastest way for me to get to be productive is just to say, okay, here's the song, let's play it back.
And now I'm just going to work it out.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. not you didn't want it Weren't interested in doing scales.
Eden James: No, I wasn't actually. So my mom got me lessons and I did two weeks of scales and I went and I just throw it in. I said, that's not for me. I'm not, I'm
Rae Leigh: boring.
Eden James: No. and that was kind of odd. I really wish that I had persevered with the classical piano lessons because it, you know, it teaches you technique and that's something that. I don't have. I have this really sort of rough and ready, Sort of punk musician style, which is fine for what I do. But it.
You know, I'd really wish I'd sort of had that discipline to learn classical techniques.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I think like my dad was the same, like he was taught classical and then as he got older, I played by ear. And he was, but he was really good and he would play and I saw him like he would worship on the piano, like he would lose himself in it. and I remember wanting that and also probably because I'm a middle child of six children probably wanted to be close to him, but I wanted him to teach me, but he would refuse to teach me.
He's like, no, if you want to learn piano, you have to go to a proper teacher. And it just, he didn't think he was good enough to teach me. And yet he is, I still sit down and watch him. And he just, if he is at the piano, He just has like floating fingers, you know, they just, they float in the sound, just pulls out and he doesn't know what he's doing.
And I kind of, I think I've tried to get to that point too, where you can just sit and play by ear and not necessarily know what you're playing, but you know, that it feels good.
Eden James: Yeah. Have you heard that the instrument should be an extension of your body? You know, so
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I have,
Eden James: it, Yeah. So then it becomes just what your mind is thinking rather than something that you need to conquer. It just becomes an extension of your fingers and hands and feet, whatever.
Rae Leigh: I think the piano is that for me, because I play that, that, was my first instrument and I D I did do the lessons.
And I did persevere, but I kind of gave up on the theory. Like once we got to grading, I kind of was like, well, I'm not interested in grading. I don't care about that. but I think you're right. like, when I'm feeling really emotional and I want to just let the emotion out, I find it, the easiest place to do that is, is that okay?
Eden James: Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I started. And so that's where a lot of the emotion came from for me as a child was the keyboard. Really was sort of was simple because it laid out the visual of where all the notes are and what they are. Whereas the guitar I learned later in life And it's, I think it's a little more difficult in terms of learning,
And then no disrespect to piano at all, because I still love piano, and I.
I probably am actually a better guitarist now, but, But I was self-taught on guitar aswell. But I think my real forte is in songwriting and that I think that's where my strength is.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I tell people I'm a songwriter who sings and attempts to play instruments.
Eden James: Well, that's good. I'm going to, I might borrow that.
Rae Leigh: You can steal that one.
Eden James: David Belli might say.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
I don't like I don't play any instruments on any of my records and stuff like that. So w we're going to get to how that all comes together. So just, I guess I'd like to find out, because this is a huge thing. Like a lot of kids play instruments in school, and it is something that is encouraged at a young age.
And then we kind of get to high school and they're like, all right, let's talk about real work and getting a real job. This is what careers counselors, you know, really push, especially in Australia. I don't know what your experience was in the UK, but at what point did you go. This is my Korea and I'm not like, this is what I want my income to be in my life to be where did that happen for
you?
Eden James: It first happened in Brisbane where I studied, I went to rock school. I went to the contemporary music Southbank contemporary music center, which was great contemporary musical tourism, and hospitality. That was,
that's what it was. And, you know, I did that
sort of straight out of high school. And that was the year that I knew what I wanted.
Well, I told you, I knew when I was eight, but that was a, you know, as an eight year old, you're still sort of child brain thinking. But when I did. Yeah. Yeah. of course Kota at rock school, it was, it really made
my dream come alive and it's, it lit a fire inside
me. And from then on I just, I thought, that's it.
I'm going to do this professionally. I'm going to seek out all the professional ways, the best way to do this, and I'm going to follow this
path and yeah, to,
To my credit I did. and I'm still doing it today. So.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: It's what do I have to say about that? You know what? I was surrounded by, oh, I like mines Lexi, like like-minded souls.
We were all musicians or engineers in that class. And we, it was like just kindred spirits, all together, learning the same thing or all with the same dream. and we had great teachers. I think if the teachers.
If their hearts one in it. I think I, as possible without him, I may have made a different decision
because you know, when the teacher is enthusiastic and really believes in it, then sort of the
students or the That's contagious and the students.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. That's cool. And your parents were supportive as
well, obviously?
Eden James: well,
Rae Leigh: No. Okay. that's a joke.
Eden James: at my 21st birthday, my dad made a speech and said, I wished he hadn't had chosen medicine. That's what I was expecting him to be a doctor. You know, I got
really great grades and really good at academia in general. My music theory was also top. I was actually quite good at music theory. I still am. I really. Music theory. and
I think that helps me so much in songwriting and maybe producing too in the arrangement side of the recording aspect is, Yeah, but anyway, yeah he was not too happy, but it all, he turned around and the day he turned around was when, you know, he saw, and This is when I signed my first record deal in Australia with collision records and we released never setting some, it was a Brisbane label run by vigilante who is ex Sony guy. And they did, you know, collision records, did a great job on marketing and stuff. So I was in magazines and all the Brisbane papers and stuff. And so one day my dad picks up his favorite newspaper, the courier mail.
He opens it up and lo and behold, there's his son, a picture of his son and these sort of praise kind words of praise about his son's record release. And I think on that day,
He's he switched. He went okay. If it's good enough for the courier mail, I can get behind this.
Rae Leigh: Thank you. Korea males here. There's still a purpose for the newspaper. Well, that's a really beautiful story and it. is, it's one of those things. I think every musician Faces is that I guess, disappointment from parents when you decide to do it. And not always, but it can be a hard thing for some people to get their heads around.
So that's really cool. And so how now you've done that you've released your records, you guys, you record labels and tell us what was the journey after that. And because you've had quite a bit of success what's been your highlight. What's your favorite thing to talk about? Yeah.
Eden James: Well, actually right now it's some some of the woodwinds that I've gotten from international film festivals and music Fest and music awards, That's right. It's because it's current And I think as a songwriter and musician you kind of want to remain current, you know, and you want to keep doing things.
And it's, I think it's important that you get recognition for what you're working on now. Like, so I had the number one hit back in 2006 or 2005 and, you know, that's that's probably the highlight of my biography, but. It's so long ago, I feel, I don't really want to talk about it because it's like, well, That's not relevant.
It's, you know, it's a big thing and it's, it is part of my history. So it's part of my journey, but personally, I would rather talk about the the best music video award that I just won and then,
or actually I want to have guys and
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Eden James: they, those things. get me excited and I'm thinking, well, this is my, my, I have a new album coming out. I guess, I'll just sort of segwayed onto this.
Rae Leigh: Go on, please talk
Eden James: full. Yeah. I just fall over my own points. I have a new album coming out, July 9th.
So it's not far away. It's called all the good blank are taken. And on that. there's a single music video that I released. Just a couple of weeks back.
It's called stranger And it strains the music video is picked up to two music awards at two international music festival festivals. And.
The song something called love is also a single and a music video, which will be coming out very soon. And it's just one best rock song at the American tracks music awards.
So thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. So you know, those kinds of little accolades there. On a personal level. They give you that little boost to sort of think, okay, keep going. You know, and that sort of remind to me, one of my favorite quotes from a musician. And as a jazz musician I need to look up who it was, but a fan came up to him after his show and said, I love your music.
I love your playing. I would give my life to play like you. And the musician said, that's exactly what I got.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: And you know, sort of, there's another quote that, oh, actually I misquoted that the code that I meant to say, which was relevant to my
story was the one where, again, I CA I need the economist who said this, and I should probably look these up for interviews, India sake in the future.
Someone asked an 80 year old musician why they were still playing and he said, oh, I think. I'm think I'm improving. And that, that to me is like all you need is just as long as you feel that you're making progress. It doesn't matter how old you are. It doesn't matter how much you've achieved, because you know, that, that sense of personal satisfaction when you're improving at something.
And it doesn't matter what that is. Whether it's an instrument, musicianship, a job skill set, you know, anything, a talent, anything, if you're improving at it, that's good. That's a personal achievement that you've, you're making yourself that's growth, right? That's personal growth. So that's, that rings true to me.
And I sort of always keep that in my head is like at any time it doesn't really matter what the world thinks or your peers or anyone else. It's really just what you feel. If you feel you're improving. That's great.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, never stopped growing. That's how you grow and if you're not growing, then what are you doing? Yeah, I've asked for feedback on songs and you know, music videos that
have been released once in public forums. And one time I remember someone said, why do you want feedback on something that's already been released?
And it was a good question because some people, I guess, don't want that. They want it to just believe that it's perfect and move on. But for me, it's like, well, I'm going to.
Re recording and releasing music. And if I want it to be better than this, then I need to get feedback. Like
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: need that. And sometimes it can be a skill to learn how to get feedback or critical feedback. and no, sometimes when it's critical and when it's just projection, because there are two different things and some people will try and hide projection as feedback,
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: but it's an important thing to be able to do, to be able to grow and work on your craft. And. You know, whatever you put out, just believe that if that's the best you can put out at that given moment in your life, be proud and then keep growing.Yeah. I love that.
Eden James: exactly. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Someone said last night, they're like, as long as your song is 1% better than your last song. It's good to go.
Eden James: Yup. that's, it. Baby steps.
Rae Leigh: yeah, if it's 1% worse, don't put it out. That was their advice. Always make sure it's better.
Eden James: And there's another little thing I like to remind myself about the sub subjectiveness of art. It's like art is the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's not about the actual object of the art, the music or the art piece, whatever somebody likes it's worth it. Right.
And even If That's just one person, even if it's just your mum, just worth it then,
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Eden James: so,
Rae Leigh: Oh, he was at Allan Caswell. I spoke to him on this podcast and he's been around since the sixties, as a songwriter, but he's. He goes, he does some writing classes and he gives feedback and they're like, oh, but my mum loves it. And he was like no, your mum loves you.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And you know, your family, you do kind of sometimes need to get feedback from people that don't necessarily have an emotional attachment to you.
If you want to. I want to grow that is, and I'm assuming people who listened to this.
Eden James: absolutely. That's so true.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. but I mean, if you want to write songs for your mom, go for it. That's cool.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Okay.so moving on from, congratulations on the new music awards. I want to know when you are writing music, what is it that you're trying to say? Or as you have like a common theme that you always think about when you're making music that you want your audience and your fan base to connect to.
Eden James: Yeah, I'm not sure if I have a common theme, I certainly do. Just try to speak from the heart and just, Yeah. I'd like to share things that observations or feelings, emotions that I've gone to, or thoughts that I've experienced, that I feel others have also experienced, or maybe they just want to hear a nice story.
So for me, it's just, it's a very personal process songwriting. However, I do believe that the songwriter, is not really the instigator. They're more like the.
The facilitator. and I do believe that the ideas are out there in the universe And the songwriter's job is just to put them down on that all on the page or On the, I was going to say two, two inch tape, but
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: longer there. It's no longer a thing, but I really do think that's the, his job is to take what's out there in the universe
And put it. down. Yeah.
On paper. So you do have to find the word, the correct words. You do have to find a way of making this poetic and artistic. And so there is a level of skill and talent involved in it, but it's, I think it's really important to leave the ego out of it.
And just to let it think of yourself as a scribe or a stenographer, and it's like, okay, this is what happened. I'm just reporting it.
Rae Leigh: You can look at a medium
Eden James: Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah. And of course, it's T it's going to be tainted with your view of the world. So that's where that your sort of signature comes through. It's like, well, this is what Riley thinks. And so this is how her songs are going to come out. Right.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
That's kind of a scary thought though, because it's kind of like thinking that. when people listen to your music, they're actually, they're hearing your deep consciousness.
Eden James: Well, they
Rae Leigh: It's very vulnerable. Yeah.
Eden James: Well, I think that's, I think writing a song and putting it out there as one of the most vulnerable things, honest things you can do, there's so much, It's scary to be really honest with people. It's like the world is your therapy, your therapist, and you are confiding in your therapist.
It's like, wow, do I really want to admit to this? So I want to say this out loud. It can be scary, but it's, You must, you've probably experienced this as well. Is it is therapeutic to write a song and just to have it out there. It's therapeutic. It's like, I've got this off my chest. I've said it. And I put it in a very articulate way.
The best article, that way I can find and. and. you know, now it's like, now it can be commented on whether people hate it or they love it, or they think,
It's just,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: that's fine. Not everyone's going to love what you do.
Rae Leigh: No. And I think, you know, we're all at different times in different places and it's certainly going to be really the people that are ready to hear what you've got to say, you know, and we all go through different phases in life. And so it'll land where it needs to land. That's my belief, divine timing.
I definitely believe in that.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: Yeah.That's true. I do believe in the law of attraction is like, whatever you think about the most will gravitate towards you and
manifest. So like I had been, I'd been working 24 7 on music, and so I think it's it. It does manifest into your reality.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
And sometimes it's slow, but yeah, that's definitely happened in my life. I'm obsessed with songwriting and my last musical. I don't know if you can relate to that, but I sing everything in my head and it's sometimes I laugh at myself because I'm like, what am I doing? But it's just who I am, you know, a bit dorky, a bit quirky, but that's cool.
I want to know about collaborations and co-writing and what your experience with that has been and how you work with other people. Manifested in
your life.
Eden James: Yeah. I have co-written with several writers and there's there is one or two that I like to collaborate with regularly. One of them is a guy called John Drake. He's based in London, but like me.
Grew up in Brisbane. And in fact that the two of us met at Joe's and the queen street mall right before we were both leaving for London and we just met for a beer and like, lunch And we announced to each other, he said, oh, I've got some news, I'm moving to London.
And he goes, yeah. So am I? And I said, when I said December, he said, yeah. So am I,
Rae Leigh: oh, that's weird.
Isn't it? So you planned it. We didn't know that each other were doing it.
Eden James: Yeah, exactly. So we immediately became friends in London. Like we knew each other on the
circuit in Brisbane. We played shows together in Brisbane. That's why we sort of met up
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: And we actually met up to exchange posters because you know how you put posters around town and stuff.
We met up to exchange posters, and that's where we sort of both realized we're both moving to London at the same time. and so when he got there we met up.
You know, he's like Eden let's form a band and stuff, and we did collaborate. So we started off writing a lot of songs together
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: and we never did form that band, but we did for a very brief second, but then the songs we wrote together, we then went on and used individually for our own solar projects.
Rae Leigh: Cool.
Eden James: And yeah, so, and also John came to visit a couple of years back
and co came to visit me in New York and we sat down and we actually made a weekend of it and we wrote songs. We just sat down and wrote songs together.
Rae Leigh: Nice. So you guys just, it flows with
you too.
Eden James: Yeah, it flows. It becomes like actually a really fun social activity as well. It's like we, we sit down for a few hours. We write songs, we talk about life. We,
you know, we do our best. We have a drink and then we go
out and we talk about life. It's a bit more.
Rae Leigh: that sounds like my ideal, best friend. Like someone I can just talk to, and as we're talking, it's like, oh, let's write that song. And then you just write that song and then keep going.
It
sounds perfect. And I do that anyway, but people who aren't songwriters, they go, what she doing? Why does she stop me conversation and put notes in her phone all the time.
Eden James: Yeah, it's interesting. And as a, their own way of collaborating and songwriting, like, I am the the over analytical person in the song writing session. So I want to capture everything where John's more freewheeling, it's very freewheeling and we actually sort of were yin and yang when it comes to the sunlight partnership. It's actually a very. Very compatible,
Duo. And, but I record every single note, every single utterance. So, and then I go over it later just in case there's some magic that we missed. And because that's because I really believe that there is, I have some antenna which are sort of like magic antenna, which is like just sort of, when I hear something, which I feel is. It gets me excited. like really I think, oh, that's gold. That's I just love, I love that lyric or love that melody or that that interval or, you know, this stuff. I love how this resolves here.
I will take that. And I'll really then sort of plug that into the song and then say, okay, so we have to lead up to this or we have to, lead.
This is the lyric we're going to work around. Things like, that So, where John is just sort of off the cuff really quick and I'll play something And he'll say, oh, let's just work on that. And so we are quite spontaneous, but at the same time. I like to notate everything that we do.
So I just basically put an audio recorder down next to us, and then I review it later.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And that's a good way to do it. Like some people believe in rewriting. Some people don't, but I think professionals do rewriting is gold. So yeah, that's really good. What's your experience? Or like, if you were entering into a co-write with someone. Do you always rock out prepared?
Is there something that you specifically always do in a co-write to get the song done?
Eden James: Yeah. Well, so first we talk about what's our ultimate goal here is this going to be a song for you? It's going to be a song for me, or is it. just to write a song to. Because that, you know, that does matter because Like for instance, you know, John was trying to get some songs for his new, for a solo record.
And we came together to the session knowing that these songs would go, that John would have first pick of them. You know, there were songs that John would have first selection over.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: So with that in mind there was a lot of like, oh, this is the rough draft. So then John would take that home and sort of pour over it and.
Review it and Edited. Whereas if it was something that I was going, that I wanted to put on my album, I would do the editing and I would do the reviewing and the step to, you know, of it. But I think it's also important to say, okay what are we trying to achieve from this?
Who's going to be, is it going to be 50 50 for lyrics and NLT? Or are you just coming in as a lyricist?
I think it's very important to write out the roles that everyone's playing in the session
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Eden James: and that way you sort of, there's no surprises at the end. And you can also, you know, if you want to bring, A short contract, a one-page contract to say, this is what we're doing, this is who wrote, you know, we're going 50, 50 down the middle for Livingston melody.
And I will. I mean, I don't do that with John because we've, we have such a long standing history that we just register it with appro at the end of the day and then that's done. But with other folks it's like well, what do you, what do we want to achieve? you know, am I just writing a top-line for you?
Or do you want me as a producer as well? Because that's a part of what I do is like I'll come in and actually arrange and produce the song if that's Okay.
What you want. But as far as songwriting,
I'm trying to think of some other collaborations that have just been like just only lyricists or only Composers.
And for the most part, I tend to sort of work with both. You know, we tend to sort of split the lyrics and melody
Rae Leigh: I tend to not spend a lot of time on that. But I know that some people, I mean, I kind of just adopted the Nashville style. Like if you're in the room, you get a cut kind of
Eden James: right.
Rae Leigh: just even splits just because you know, for me, there's no money in that side of things really just yet. So it's not worth sort of spending energy on, but is that become a thing that you know, that you do sort of, how do you separate that?
Eden James: Well, I actually really prefer the even split. But it's important that you are doing someone who's pulling their weight, right? So if I wrote 25% of a song and someone coming in with 5%, if they said, oh, here's two words, that's not really fair that they're getting 50, 50% cuts. So, but I try not to work.
You know, I try not to work with collaborators like that. You know, I tried to work with people who really pull their weight and contribute as much as so, but also, you know, 100% of the song myself. So there's on the new album. There's Like half of the songs out, 100%. My, my lyrics and melodies and the other half are, Collaborations,
Rae Leigh: Okay.
Eden James: with a co-writer.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Cool. All right. And we talked about collaborations outside of co-writing with your album, you've got some musicians that came in and helped you with the recording. How did that all come about? Tell us about who's on there and what they're doing.
Eden James: Yeah. I was fortunate to get some pretty famous players on this new album. I was producing it with a producer called Tim Lightner who worked with Billy Joel, Tina Turner. He's yeah, he's sort of like iconic producer and he's based in New York. So he knows all these New York musicians.
And w when I first approached Tim w you know, we talked about recording this album together and he loved the songs and I think that's why he agreed to it. And he sort of, said, Yeah. these, I really think these songs are amazing. And I've got an idea who will, we could bring in as. as. musicians to play on this.
And he ended up bringing in Paul Simon's guitarists, which is Larry Saltzman. Who's toured with Paul Simon then in plays on Paul Simon's albums and Larry played the guitar on pretty much, most of the record. He also brought in Charlie, Charlie Giordano, who is the accordion and keys player for the Bruce Springsteen band east street band.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: And he, you know, he too was with Bruce. So when that when Charlie came in, I was a little bit giddy. I was honestly, I was a little like, like, a school girl.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Eden James: and anyway, Charlie sort of started playing down some piano on, on on black book. One of my, one of my singles. And I, and he said something like that.
And I went, yeah. that's exactly what I want, Tim, did you record that? He goes, Yeah. I got all that.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: It's like, Wow. He just came. He, you know, he came prepared.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: And this was an amazing lesson for me in the professionalism. The level of professionalism that these guys have is they do their homework and they come in and they have some ideas, but they're also open to directly.
I, you know, I've got very specific direction on what I want from the song. And so I would direct Larry and and Charlie on what I feel, but often they would bring their own input and say, w what about something like this for like the lines in between? And I think that kind of professionalism is really so, so beautiful and amazing.
I, you know, work with these guys again. Absolutely because of that reason and it, Yeah. And if there's any lesson to be learned or any, anything I can recommend to studio or session players out there who are really forging a name for themselves, or trying to become better at their craft, I would say, just take a lesson out of these guys' books and be prepared and actually come up with some ideas before you get in there, rather than just get in there and sort of wait, waiting to see what happens.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Be efficient.
Eden James: Yeah. it'd Be efficient.
Exactly. It's like, they're paying for the studio time. They're also paying for your time. So don't waste their money
and be efficient. Yeah. And also David Bell is drummer. So he I still in Sterling Campbell rented some studio space in the same studio that we worked at.
And so stop stealing was in there every day. And I met him at the coffee machine or the, you know, the water cooler, so to speak
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: and we got to talking.
And then one of the, one of my tracks, dangerous game, I was thinking I wanted to put some like Ringo type fills Rigo star type fills on it. And it was quite an odd because we already had a drunk
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: and I thought, well, is it possible that we sort of can add drum fills to this jump track?
Or is it going to be weird? And Tim said, well, let's just try it. You know, Sterling's just in the next room. Why don't we ask him when he
has some time and see if he's interested.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: And so he came in and put some. Put some. fills down on the track and it was kind of, it was really funny because I've never worked this way before.
We had a drum track and we, the track was almost finished. So, so Sterling's in the recording room and he's listening to it and we say, okay, well, we want some sort of Ringo kind of fills. And he says, Okay.
So he starts putting down some Ringo fields. And we pretty much exhausted his entire arsenal of Ringo fills.
And he said, well, that's as much as Ringo I can get. I don't know if you want anything else, but we, so we got it. It was really funny just to say, to explore that avenue. And it was one of those situations where we really just, we were just being creative and having fun and just exploring an idea. It, I can't say if it actually ended up on the record or not, but it was one of those things that we just said, let's have some fun, let's explore this idea, see if it works.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Eden James: Yeah.
And it was, you know, stealing was just a great guy and an amazing musician. So it was really just wonderful to have him in there And to sort of have some fun with her.
Rae Leigh: that's cool. And there, there is a big part of trial and error when you were recording. Cause you don't as much as you can imagine what it's going to sound like. You don't really know until it's. You know, the tracks being recorded and then you've got to you know, you've got to reassess and sometimes it doesn't come out exactly the right way that you thought it would.
And so you got to try something different until you get the right feeling.
Eden James: Yeah, exactly. And I'm a big believer in that. And the more you do that, the more experienced you get at it. So you kind of then know a little more, what.
Will and what won't work because you've tried that before, but I still believe in exploring avenues because that's the way you've come creative and sort of make changes.
It's like, well, let's not do the same thing. We've always done. Let's try something new.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Eden James: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there's so much fun in the
studio and the recording studio with that creative approach.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Eden James: Okay.
I often counted. So what I enjoy more when I get a bigger buzz out of is actually the songwriting process or the recording process,
because.
Th the recording process, you know, you start to hear, or the production visualizes in front of you. It starts to become a real thing. Whereas the song is like an idea and it's like, it's the bare bones. And then the production becomes the, you know, the, Hollywood number and it's like, wow, it's just amazing how far we can take this idea.
Rae Leigh: It's all a journey. Yeah. I don't let me, it's like raising a child, you know, the birth is exciting when you create the song and then you've got to raise it up and get it ready to be released into the world. And it can be a faster, a very slow process, but yeah.
Eden James: yeah. like they, there is a, there's a saying that songs are babies. Aren't they, after you've done them, they're like your babies.
Rae Leigh: Well, that's the premises of this whole, like somewhere to tourists is the intimate connection between two lovers. That's what the word means. So the idea is that, you know, when you get together and have a songwriting trust with someone, you create a song, baby. Yeah.
And this is the conversations we have to get those song babies out.
This is the intimate part of song. Baby-making if I can put it in so many words, but anyway, well, what is the best advice you would say you were ever given in this instance?
Eden James: Off the top of my head, I'm just trying to think of something. I could probably email you something, which is really true. And if I go through my emails, but I've top of my head, let's see best advice. Don't take things too personally, because. You know, as some babies, they you become very protective about them, but you have to learn to let things go. and I
think that's pretty good advice. It's like, step back, try to detach yourself from, Your personal connection with things, especially if it's coming from professional, someone who you're relying on for advice or criticism or.
Cause just feedback or constructive criticism it might not be what you wanted to hear, but don't take it too personally. and then as you mentioned earlier in this conversation
is you have to have the experience to analyze what they say, whether it is, Good advice or if it's just bad advice for the sake of them being sort of unhappy.
With you or jealousy or something. It's really hard to work that out, but if you've got to think of what's the motivation for someone saying, giving you any advice, it's like, well, how is this benefiting them in some way?
Is they just, are they doing it because they're trying to be kind or they're trying to help me is that what this conversation is about? And most of the times I think it is, I think it's people who are trying to help.
So, I guess my best advice is don't think don't take things too personally because you can always, also, you can always write another song or anything that you feel was didn't achieve what you wanted it to or didn't, you didn't get the goal that you wanted to re that you wanted to don't take it too personally, because there's always tomorrow.
There's always next year. There's always next month. There's always the next album or the next year. You know,
Rae Leigh: going.
Eden James: when I think back about how much focus we put on some things, when we make records and songs. And then when we looked back sort of 10 years, 20 years later, and you think, oh, I got so caught up in that.
And part of that is necessary. I mean, obviously you need to drive your own career, so you need to be in
Rae Leigh: Invested.
Eden James: Yeah.Invested.in. It has some sort of, cause I control over it, but also it's better to have that control at a high level rather than the grassroots level. You know, you don't need to fuss over small things.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. Last two short.
Eden James: Yeah. Actually that's it. Don't sweat. The small stuff is a life philosophy that I try to apply to myself just all around. Not just the music industry.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, it's a dangerous path to go down when you do start sweating the small things.
Eden James: Yeah. And obviously often we're not aware of it. it's often where sort of getting out knickers in a twist over something. And we don't realize it's just a small thing. It's like, well, it's just that ego getting involved to just take a step back and detach.
Rae Leigh: Yep. Good advice. Easy to say. Harder to do, but
Eden James: Yes.
Rae Leigh: it's good advice. Okay.
If you could give advice to maybe a school student or someone who is passionate and really wants to get out there with their songwriting, but they haven't started yet. What's your advice for people? Yeah.
Eden James: I would say stick to it. And if you have passion, if you're passionate about it, Give into that passion, give yourself the time to, to write the song or play on the instrument and explore it. If you really I think a great way to start is by deconstructing a song that you love. That's how I started very early on.
I took a song that I love. I deconstructed it and I recomposed, I re produced it. Myself. And when you do basically reproduce every single element of that song. So I recorded it and produced a color version, which has exactly the same. And this was, this is more of a an exercise in the workshop. I'm not trying to produce a couple of versions to put it out there to the world.
I'm just doing it to better. My understanding of the songwriting, process and the construction. And if you take a, some that you really love, obviously you aspire to be, to write songs like that or similar, if you could break it down and deconstruct it and then put it back together you basically, you,
you reveal all the stuff, secrets that the songwriter and the producer in that song made and you're then aware of them.
So you've just taught yourself their secrets of that song, which is a huge step.
So that's my recommendation is take a song you love pull it apart into pieces. And record it yourself.
Rae Leigh: I think that's a great idea. I it's a skill as well, and it's going to take time, but you're right. It's if you're obsessed or you're super passionate or hopefully both that's going to be a great way to learn.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Tell me, if you could co-write and collaborate with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Eden James: I'd like to write the song.
The singer from the national, matt Berninger, I think his name is I'd like to write song within, I, really love his music. And I think we could probably do something a little different to the national, a little different to what I do as Eaton James. I think it could be, it could find some new territory.
Rae Leigh: Okay,
Eden James: All right. Who else would I'm trying to think. Oh, I would. well, some of my heroes are Leonard Cohen.
Rae Leigh: me too.
Eden James: Bob Dylan.
Rae Leigh: What's your favorite Leonard Cohen song.
Eden James: So it's certainly not Halloween hallelujah, which I like, which
Rae Leigh: It's a good song, but
Eden James: I think it's a fantastic song. I'm not going to you know, put it down at all, but it's my favorite Leonard Cohen song. Is, oh, I really liked the one he did maybe in 20 11, 20 12 the darkness it's and I don't know if you remember that song. Th the there's a lyric that goes, I caught the darkness
Rae Leigh: oh,
Eden James: from your cup and it's it was just so dark and clever, and it's like, it's contagious.
I call it the darkness drinking from your cup and I, oh, I just love that kind of a Gothic sort of sentiment.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. no, I love him. His poetry and writing is absolutely incredible. Sorry. And you said who was the next one you said as well?
Eden James: Well, Dylan he's he's a huge hero and I think put those two together are just amazing. Probably the most, my favorite songwriters of all time.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. that would be an incredible crew. Right. Okay. Tell me, you've got some shows coming up now as well. What's going on back to live
performing.
Eden James: Yeah. Which is so it's so exciting just to get back out there and to
perform a concert. Again, I have a show coming up on July 15th, so it's just after the new album release and it's at, it's in New York at, in long island city at
The plaques, all art galleries, they have this parking lot, which they've turned into is like a little concert area.
It's like a little mini festival and there's an outdoor stage and it's going to be the middle of summer. So it's going to be perfect. It's I actually went there last summer during the pandemic and they were doing these outdoor concerts, And you know, sort of socially distance and all that. It was very safe and they had food trucks there and,
The Brooklyn brewery was across the road.
So it was like,
Rae Leigh: Wow. It's like a drive-ins concert.
Eden James: Yeah. Yeah, it was really cool. So I'm playing there
which is, it's actually cold lab lIC. And that's so that's, that'd be my first live show after the pandemic. And then I have another festival in Sweden called live at heart Sweden. So we're still not sure with whether that's going to be a live stream or if it's, I'm going to Sweden with my band to play.
I'm not sure.
Rae Leigh: So is that is travel like open for you guys? Cause we're definitely locked down still from the outside world.
Eden James: so I know some friends who have been traveling internationally, I have not. And I think it, depends on the country. I know I can't get back to Australia right now, you know, I want to get back and see the family and stuff, but I can't. So, you know, I'm hoping by Christmas that things might change a bit.
The travel bands will be lifted and the regulations will be lifted.
Yeah.
So, So I didn't know about the gig in Sweden. It could be another, Livestream performance, so we'll see. But that's in September, so that's kind of a way off.
Yeah. Yeah. That'd be
Rae Leigh: And. even if you live streaming to say, yeah, I'm playing sweet. Woo.
Eden James: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: No, that's really cool. Well, I'm looking forward to getting back out there and yeah, your first gig after being in lockdown is a bit of a shaky one. It was for me anyway. But like getting back on the horse, you just got to
Eden James: You got to do it. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: do it and you forget how much you've missed.
Eden James: Yeah. I'm looking forward to that. and then, so we've got to get into the rehearsal room and rehearse that, which is going to be, I'm looking forward to that
again. Just to play with musicians that play these songs again. Quite exciting. So, yeah.
Rae Leigh: No, I'm looking forward to it for you. I'm excited for you and enjoy the journey and just enjoy, know all the releases and the album and live performing. And congratulations on those music videos. I'll put the links to all your music and socials and YouTube and everything in the description of the podcast.
So everyone can go and follow you. And there'll also be a blog with everything in it, on the website songwritertrysts.com.
Eden James: If you're listening and you know, you want to hear my songs, edenjames.com, and you can find all the links from there.
Rae Leigh: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Eden. I just, I love your passion and it really comes through and I can hear it. And. I think you don't just keep going and just looking forward to supporting what you're doing and being a part of the journey. That's good.
Eden James: Thanks very much, Rae it's a real pleasure to be on on your podcast.
