#204 Hinterland
Jesse from Hinterland the Aussie country band sits with Rae Leigh live in the Gold Coast studio to talk music, songwriting, and her mistakes, lessons, and successes.
Brother & sister, Robbie & Rachel Bostock with childhood friend Jesse Emmanuel make Hinterland. Together they’ve been kicking down doors in the Australian country music industry since their launch in 2020. Hinterland has amassed some consistently impressive stats–all 6 of their singles dominating Top 10 charts all over the country including 3 x #1s (“Treating Me Good”,“Giddy Up”, “In The Hinterland”), streams in the millions and a viral moment for theirsong& EP “Loud” in March of 2021 thanks to mainstream airplay on rock station Triple M.Their sound is one of a kind–an eclectic mix of their strongest influences such as The Corrs, Fleetwood Mac, The Chicks, Brad Paisley and Zac Brown Band–blending different styles of country, pop, and rock with a focus on catchy hooks, dreamy melodies and shows topping musicianship: Rachel shredding on the violin, Robbie melting faces with his electric guitar and Jesse holding down a solid rhythm on 2nd guitar. In full band mode, they are a sensational force–with the kind of musical chemistry that can only come from decades of experience, collaboration, friendship, and family. They love what they do, and they are simply exceptional. Despite launching the band during the pandemic, Hinterland performed coveted stage-storming sets at Groundwater, Savannah In The Round, Bush To Bay, and Tamworthfestivals. They are looking forward to releasing their long-awaited debut album and dominating the circuit once again in 2023. There is no one doing country music like Hinterland.
Connect with Hinterland:
Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to another songwriter Trysts with Jesse from the band. Hinterland. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you?
Hinterland: I'm good. Thank you for having me.
Rae Leigh: I love it when I get to have these in-person conversations because it's so much more personable and you're a local, so we actually don't live that far from each other, so it's nice.
Hinterland: No, that's true. It's a, it's just just down the road.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, just down the road. So I like to start this podcast by getting, we'll talk about you first and then we'll go into the band.
Tell me a little bit about who you are and where you come from.
Hinterland: So , I've been a songwriter, all my life, basically. Um, it started in primary school when I was in a girl band, uh, , and
Rae Leigh: Girls Take two
Hinterland: pretty much, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we were called the Party Girls. Um, I'm sure that name's not taken, um, but we, yeah, we would, It was just me and my girlfriends and we were convinced this is what we were gonna do. We were gonna be the Spice Girls. I'm sure it was during the era of the Spice
Rae Leigh: I'm pretty sure I was gonna be in a Spice Girl
Hinterland: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's just.
Rae Leigh: Every little girl wanted to be the
Hinterland: It's a rite of passage, isn't it? And um, yeah, we started, I started writing songs and like, you know, obviously I look back at it now, I'm like, that's terrible. Um, but you know, it was something and picked up a guitar and started actually putting stuff together and, um, it really took off for me when I was a teenager and, um, going through my first breakup, um, because it was the end of the world and I would never love again, um, according to my songwriting.
Um, and yeah, it became kind of a therapy for me at that point. Um, and, you know, not long, like I was kind of doing it to make myself feel better and, and all that. And then I got to sort of adulthood and I was like, Actually, I think I might do this. Like I might do this for a living. And when I was 18, 19, 20, started recording and, uh, put out an album as a solo artist.
Put out two albums as a solo artist when I was very, very young in my early twenties, um, to varying degrees of quality and success. Um, please don't go and listen to them now. Still available. Uh,
Rae Leigh: us
Hinterland: maybe, I don't know. Probably not. It's, this is the days before, you know, iTunes. I mean, I probably have a box of CDs in the garage somewhere, which I will bury Um, , but yeah, probably not.
But, um, I actually won for one of, for one of my first singles. Um, I won an award. I won an ara songwriter's award, um, in 2009 maybe. Um, which was great. And, um, yeah, but I, I actually got to a certain point in my early twenties, um, made the mistake of like going on, um, Australia's got talent,
Rae Leigh: made the mistake of going on
Hinterland: on.
Oh, absolutely. The mistake. A hundred percent. Yeah, no, it.
Rae Leigh: it a mistake?
Hinterland: Um, because I was, well, I was very young, obviously. Um, and probably like most, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and I guess I didn't want, I always hated those shows. I hated the idea of Australian Idol and, and, well, there was no voice back then. I think there might have been an X Factor, but I hated the idea of those shows.
I just thought it was just like, ugh. And it never really went well for anybody really. It was kind of like, Oh, everyone just comes off looking crap
Rae Leigh: in the arts is
Hinterland: Yeah. It's just kind of like, you know, there's no, there's no other, like, there's no other industry where. You know, something that is subjective, which is art music, um, is, you know, turned into this competition.
I don't know, it just felt really weird and I was always anti, I was always so against it. And then they, yeah, I remember they got in contact with me, um, personally rang me and were like, We want you to come. And like, silly young me is like, wow. Like, wow, I must be, you know, And they, and they literally like, Rushed me through it.
I didn't even have to do like the first audition. They were just like, Yeah, it was really, And I remember being like, Wow, I've made it, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna win. And then when I was on the show, um, it was different. This was like, you go out in front of the judges and I think it was like Danny Oo, Carl Sandlands and.
I don't know, some other guy. Um, and yeah, I was just really unprepared. And the other thing was the editing. The editing was really bad cuz I remember on the day being like, the sound was terrible. There was no fallback on the stage or anything, so it just, it sounded awful. Um, but I was
Rae Leigh: you reckon they set you up though? Yeah,
Hinterland: I do. Yeah, a little bit.
Um, and so, yeah, on the day it was kind of, it was like, Oh, well, you know, I got through it even though it sounded pretty bad. And I played a song that I had written myself, and the song has a key change, um, at the very end. And I played the whole song. And then when it came on the tv, they only played the start and then the end.
And so it just, and it changed key
Rae Leigh: sound like a different song.
Hinterland: it was just like, it just looked, when I watched it, I was like, Oh no, this, this, If I knew they were gonna do that, I wouldn't have done the key change, you know? And it was just like, Oh, this is dumb. Um, and yeah. And they also like tried, they edited it to look like I was like, Mean, like
Rae Leigh: Oh
Hinterland: Yeah. Uh, it was funny. And, um, yeah. So what had happened
Rae Leigh: how many years of therapy have you been through life?
Hinterland: No, no. Well, well, I, sorry. I am gonna
Rae Leigh: go
Hinterland: there to what, what happened after this? But, so for example, um, when I was up there, when I was up there and they were talking to me and blah, blah, blah. Um, so I, I'm actually related to some other famous successful musicians, Tom and Tommy and Phil Emmanuel, um, who, Yeah.
You know, not many. They're not that big a deal, but, um,
Rae Leigh: Tommy Emmanuel's a
Hinterland: Tommy Emmanuel's a pretty big deal. Yeah. But anyway, it was very much, that's kind of all they ask me about. And it was like, if you get through, do you think Tommy will come? And I was like, No, he's got better things to do. Like,
Rae Leigh: Ooh. Whereas if you had said yes, they probably, so they were
Hinterland: And then, um, and then I was like, one of the questions was, yeah, like, How do you feel like, you know, what's it like being related to someone famous, da da da da? And I was like, Oh, you know, like it's, it's not really a big thing for me. I don't see them all that often. Like, you know, really?
I was,
Rae Leigh: a human being.
Hinterland: yeah. I was just like, yeah, like, that's just my dad and that's just my uncle. I don't really care. Like it was, you know, And I, and I said, you know, and they were like, Oh, and what would you say about people who think you're riding on their coattails? And I was like, Oh, well I'm not, I I haven't brought it up.
Like,
Rae Leigh: you know. Yeah. You brought
Hinterland: And they made it, when they edited it, they made it look like I was having a go at Danny Mano. Being Kylie men's sister and just the way they cut it together and, but at, on the day. Yeah. And it was funny, like on the day it was just a conversation between like me and Kyle Sandals, who is an absolute knobhead.
Um, just, I mean, everyone knows that anyway, but in person. Absolutely, a hundred percent. Um, but yeah, it was just this conversation about like, Oh, what would you, what would you say to people who think that? And I was like, Oh, well I don't, I don't need to ride my relatives coattails or anything like that.
And then on the show they like zoomed in on like Danny Mano and she did like an eye roll thing and I was like, That didn't happen.
Rae Leigh: Oh
Hinterland: anyway, I looked like a total bitch on this show. And I was like, Oh my God. And then I tried to like, cuz I got through to the next round and I was like, I tried to get out of it.
I was like, No, I'm not happy with this. Like, this is terrible. I was getting, I was getting messages. Um, and, and look, my performance wasn't great either. Um. And the editing didn't do it any favors, but all I got was heaps and heaps and heaps of hate messages, inboxes, just complete strangers, just, Oh, your dad should kill yourself, that you're related to him.
And, um, you know? Yeah. And I was like, Wow. Like it wasn't that bad.
Rae Leigh: did it?
Like 20. 20?
Hinterland: Yeah. The very beginning of
Rae Leigh: were still a baby.
Hinterland: Yeah. Oh yeah. And I was just like, . And so from there, I, you know, I just looked terrible. And, um, I, I knew it tried to get out of the show. They were like, Oh, contractually, you still have to finish, you know?
And I was like, All right, fine. So I did one more performance. And again, it was, it was okay. But it was really funny because they were like, It's gotta be on in ears. And I'd never worked with in ears before. And I was like, Great. All right, whatever. I'll give it a go. And it was another original song. Again, one that I wrote when I was like 15 and I wore the ins, We did a sound check, um, wore the ins and everything.
Got a really good mix. It was awesome. Um, went out and did the actual show, did the whole performance. As soon as I started singing, I was like, I've got no vocals. Like, I
Rae Leigh: So the ins were turned off.
Hinterland: I didn't even know it was just the
Rae Leigh: They were totally sabotaging
Hinterland: cuz everything's so quick, you know, their turnarounds.
Anyway, did the whole song with just couldn't hear anything and it was just crap. And then I got into the end and I'm like, I wanna die. And then even the judges were like, Oh, we couldn't hear, I don't think your vocals were even on. Like, they were just like, Oh, can we do it again? And I was like, Oh, great.
And they're like, All right, hold on, hold on. And so my vocals just weren't coming through anywhere. So then I did a, they did another mix. I dropped one of the unis out so I could actually hear it. We got it. Good. Did it again. It was much better. Anyway, when I watch it to air. Got both my in ears in and they've used the take when I couldn't hear myself and nobody could hear myself.
So they've used that take, that was terrible. Like, and I'm over singing cuz I can't hear myself. Like they've used this, the first take, but then the judges' response to the second performance. So I'm just like, oh my god. Screw you guys
Rae Leigh: reality tv and in like quotation marks, like it's, Yeah.
Hinterland: and I knew this, you know, but I was, you know, I was so excited and thought it was,
Rae Leigh: and they
Hinterland: thought it was a big deal.
Yeah. And, and it was all, Yeah. The, the, the hard thing was is it was all behind this, all the behind the scenes stuff was centered around, like, if I got, if you get through Jessie, do you think your uncle told me would come into a special performance with you? And I was like, No, I'm not gonna ask him that.
Like, um, and
Rae Leigh: about this since?
Hinterland: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've, I've told him about it and he's like, Oh yeah, it's all
Rae Leigh: Is that what PE people are like
Hinterland: Yeah. He's just like, Yeah, yeah, well you did the right thing. But, you know, cuz he wouldn't have, and, and I wouldn't have asked him cuz that's so lame. And, um,
Rae Leigh: thing happened with Bonus. They were like, Oh, do you think Adam Brand will come on the show? But then he, but then he did. So
Hinterland: Yeah. Well, that's, that's it. And it's not, it's not that I don't think my uncle would support me or anything like that, but I would just never ask him. Yeah. You know, I, I, at the time, I was like, I wanna make it on my own. I wanna, And so I shut down all my social media, everything deleted, everything, disappeared.
Move. Interstate. Um, got married
Rae Leigh: New identity, right? Yeah.
Hinterland: literally, like when I moved up to the Gold Coast, I got married within a year, changed my last name, obviously, and nobody knew that I was an Emanuel. Nobody knew that. I was actually like, nobody knew who I was. And it was great. I loved it. I was like, Oh, I just, I had completely left all of that crap behind and started a new thing, but I didn't write a song.
I stopped writing for like seven years or something. I just was just like, It made. No, no, no, no. That's all right. It was
Rae Leigh: sue them.
Seriously.
Hinterland: No, it's just what it is. You know? They're all like that. And now I've got all, like, other people go, Oh, I got invited to be on the voice. They rang me and I'm like, Yeah, don't worry about it.
Like they do that because nobody else is putting their hand up, so they just ring around.
Rae Leigh: first thing that anyone who's not in the music industry, Yeah.
Anyone that knows nothing about music, essentially. Um, the first thing that they say to you when you say you're a singer is, Oh, you should go on the voice . Yeah.
Hinterland: Well, I always say, people say to me all the time, they're like, Oh, you should go on the voice.
You should go on the voice. And I'm like, No, no. They can't afford me.
Rae Leigh: I have, I have heard better. Um, Better responses from people who have been on the voice, um, that than idol. Like Idol has a horrible reputation.
Hinterland: I think nobody goes on the voice these days to actually win. It's just to promote. It's just like, yeah, this is just to get my name out there, boost my followers and whatever, because I mean, the whole, I've never actually watched an episode of it, but
Rae Leigh: you No, neither of, I don't watch TVs.
Hinterland: Yeah, no, I just, I just won't watch any of these singing competition shows because like, I mean, I can't tell you who won. I mean, Oh, I, of course I can't. But you know, I don't, I don't think it's been real, a great success for anybody. But what they should
Rae Leigh: It's entertainment though,
Hinterland: Well, they should
Rae Leigh: with people's emotions. And that's, that's the entertaining part of it. People
Hinterland: Is it when people come out and they're like, Oh, you know, I wasn't gonna be a singer, but then my mom died last year and now I've decided to be a singer and now I'm gonna dedicate this song to her. And everyone goes, Oh. And then they come out and they sing like some party song or something, and you're just like, Okay, cool.
Like it's, yeah, it's, it's one of those things that it's just, and the general public, you're right, they do just, and then they start thinking, Oh, that's the only way to make something of yourself. Um, but yeah, it really isn't. And I've been very against it ever since. But again, I made the mistake. So, But this
Rae Leigh: But you learnt, you learn from that and you are who you are because of it.
Hinterland: That's right. Took it, took a lot of time away from it all to just take stock and be like, Okay, to feel confident again. And, and, and, and even just, and take notes from like, looking at the performances that I would've done and, and how I was and just being like, Okay, maybe I'm not as good as I think I am.
I know that sounds really horrible, but I, I'm sure I thought I was very, very good
Rae Leigh: always good to be humbled . Yeah.
Hinterland: Well, no, I was very humbled and a lot of it I took away was, Oh, people are mean, and the whole industry and reality TV and all that sort of stuff is, but I had to also accept some of it was, Okay, well, I'm not ready.
I'm not good enough yet. Like I'm only so young and I guess
Rae Leigh: I could not have done it at that
Hinterland: No, it was terrible. And I'm really glad, like I'm really glad I stepped away for a while and really like, started to cut my teeth doing, um, like cover gigs and stuff like that, and really got myself out there because after a while I was like, okay, I've gotten a lot better at just performing and singing and, you know, worked through a lot of stuff that's made me a better performer now, so I'm sure if I went on it now I'd win.
But
Rae Leigh: no.
Hinterland: no, no. Definitely
Rae Leigh: doesn't matter if you do or
Hinterland: No, no.
Rae Leigh: What what about, cause you, you've also then became a mom. Yes. And you've got a couple of girls. Yes. Um, do you find that exp because, I mean, that's life changing in itself, having kids. Um, how did that impact your view on being an artist and being a singer and what you're doing now?
Hinterland: now? Oh, that's a great question. Um, I, I guess I kind of feel those two things are quite separate. Um, my mum life and then my artist life. I do, I do in my mind, file them away pretty separately. Um, I think later in life I would like to, Try and combine those mindsets. You know, like I was even talking about it the other night, somebody asked me if I was ever going to write a song about, you know, becoming a mother and being a mom and stuff like that.
Um, and I was like, Oh no. I, I, I don't think I will for a while because, I mean, this is a whole other tangent, but there's a whole, there's quite a stigma in the music industry. Um, and I'm on the cusp of , you know, I'm, I'm still a young lady, in a few years I'm going to be the middle-aged. You know, like,
Rae Leigh: I don't know what the definition of young is. My grandma said You're as old as you feel.
Hinterland: well, I, I feel older than I am actually, but yeah. Post covid times, mate. Um, but yeah, like, it, it, I guess in the music industry, when you're a woman, there's, you've gotta clinging to your youth so much. Yeah. Because otherwise
Rae Leigh: do really well as they get older. Cause they, they get sexier as they get older. They do. Us women have the opposite problem.
Hinterland: Exactly. And, and I mean, you only have to look at the way that the media talks to women in music versus men in music because as soon as you're, as soon as you're become a mom, as soon as you're a woman and you have your first baby, it's how do you juggle it all being an artist and a mom?
How do you juggle it all?
Rae Leigh: They don't ask that
Hinterland: to, They don't ask
Rae Leigh: I've become a father. Good on you,
Hinterland: Yeah. They're like, Great, great. Your dick works excellent. Like that's, Sorry, you could edit that out if
Rae Leigh: It's true, but that's all industries. It's
Hinterland: Yeah. Oh
Rae Leigh: you're a dad, no one says, Oh, who's watching your kids while you go to
Hinterland: to work.
Rae Leigh: But if you're a mum, that's exactly what happens. Oh,
Hinterland: I used to get it all the time. Like I'd be here to gig and they'd be like, Oh, where's your baby? I'm like, Literally with the other person.
Rae Leigh: like that. Made the baby
Hinterland: You don't come up to me when he's at work in the middle of the day and I'm at the park pushing her on a swing and going, No, so good of you to look after your child.
And, and you know, when they call it babysitting,
Rae Leigh: it's not babysitting when
Hinterland: No, it's, it's, that's just being a parent. Um, but yeah, so I guess I, I do kind of keep them both separately and I, I don't know if it is. That being said, my kids are very involved.
Rae Leigh: in
Hinterland: Like my music is, like, if I'm writing a song, I'm always like, Hey girls, I'm writing a song.
Um, they like to think they contribute. Um, , I've certainly let them try. Um, but yeah, and, and my youngest is like, she's our biggest fan. Um, but yeah, I try to keep the songwriter aspect of things separate from my mum brain because you know what it's like to have a mum brain. It's
Rae Leigh: Yeah. No, I'm, I'm living with one right
Hinterland: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: I, I only ask because I didn't have the confidence like you did when I was a kid to sing in public or even tell people that I did or
Hinterland: I wish I was a little less loud about it
Rae Leigh: because , I'm
Hinterland: I was, I'm sure I didn't do myself any
Rae Leigh: My self worth was definitely way too low. Um, but I also knew deep down that, that like, this is who I am.
Yeah. But my self worth was just not there. And I was like, if I tell anyone, I will spontaneously combust if someone doesn't like my music. Um, but having kids was like a massive twist because I was like, I have to be the example to them of how I want 'em to live their lives, and I want 'em to have the best life possible, and I am letting fear hold me back from being who I know I am,
Hinterland: Which is not something you want
Rae Leigh: which is not something I want for them.
And so they gave, they gave me the kick in the butt to like
Hinterland: I love
Rae Leigh: my ass and do it
Hinterland: Well, I guess for me, because when they were younger, I wasn't writing, I was being, I was playing music. Like I was playing just in cover bands and all that sort of stuff.
But yeah, while they were younger, because I'd just been through all, and I, I, I call it trauma, The trauma after like Australia's got talent and I mean, it's not all just Australia's got talent, but it was just the kick in the, like it was just realizing, uh, that I, yeah, it was realizing what the industry is actually like.
Um, and
Rae Leigh: that's the entertainment industry. And I think that that's important to make a difference because the music industry and the entertainment industry often get mixed
Hinterland: Yes, that's true.
Rae Leigh: they are two very different
Hinterland: Different beasts. And, and I think the other thing for me was that all my life, um, I had been told, um, you know, that I'm amazing and incredible and oh my God, you're going places. And
Rae Leigh: by mom and
Hinterland: which is yeah, by everyone. By every, you know, which is lovely.
Rae Leigh: had the opposite my like, what do you think you're doing
Hinterland: No, no, no. I just had exactly, but I just had everyone just being like, Yes, this is your calling. You're incredible. Oh my God, you're the best thing. And it gave me like a false Yeah, but I think a too much, too much of like a false sense of like, this is just gonna happen for me.
Yeah. And, and I was
Rae Leigh: I'm
Hinterland: like, I was just like, Oh, by the time I hit like this age or something, you know, there'll be a record label knocking on my door and they'll be like, Hey, here's a million dollars. Please be the next pink or Britney Spears or something. And I. Yeah, I, I just somehow thought that was gonna happen and then when I got to that sort of age, went through the A g T saga had just received this great backlash online.
And, and that, I mean, that, that being said, there was a lot of people who said positive things, but you know, we don't,
Rae Leigh: we filter
Hinterland: we feel, we just go, Oh,
Rae Leigh: Oh, everyone can say you're amazing. And one person says you're fat and you're like, Damnit,
Hinterland: Yeah, exactly. Some of the comments we were like about my hair and just stupid things and I was just like, I really don't like this.
And, and yeah, I think that was just a point where I just, that that silly little fantasy that I ha had had from so young with everybody just telling me, this is how my life's gonna go. Uh, because I'm just so talented and everything. And it stopped me. I think it stopped me from getting better because I just went, Well, I'm great.
You know?
Rae Leigh: I
Hinterland: Yeah. So, so after all that, and I've had the children and everything, I started and I was like, I still wanna play music. I still wanna be an entertainer, but I, I don't wanna. This person anymore. I don't wanna be this artist. I'm just happy to just be an entertainer and make good money and just do the cover things and everything.
And it took me years and, and during those years, you know, I played some crappy gigs. I played some good gigs, um, and I learned how to play much better, sing much better. I mean, I, No, no,
Rae Leigh: therapy after that? Cause I
Hinterland: no. , No, no, no. Yeah, no.
Rae Leigh: mean, I've been through
Hinterland: maybe I should've. Yeah, no, I, I, I'm like a, I don't know. I'm very like a self therapy person, like I'm hyper aware of. I think it's a creative brain thing as well. I'm sure I would actually, you know, benefit greatly from some therapy, but it's, I couldn't afford it at the time, but, um, yeah, but I just, all, all I did was just like, okay, I just need to step away from that. Stop trying and just, yeah, spent a few years actually just like getting as good as I thought I once was and becoming competent.
Okay. Like, it's not just gonna happen for me by default because there's plenty of people out there who are as talented as me and heaps better than me. Um, and it's not happening for them. So, um, yeah, it was like a kick in the ass, really, like bursting my bubble, um, which is good. It is good. Um, but yeah, it was , It was a bit scary.
But yeah, it was nice to have those few years where I was just, you know, not worried about my public image or songwriting and stuff like that. And just being a cover muso as a full-time job, so to speak, and, and just being a mum.
Rae Leigh: So how did, how did you go from this experience we've just covered to now being in Hint interland and releasing your own original music and, you know, working in a
Hinterland: It took, it took a long time, like as, as, as I said, um, a few years ago, maybe four or five, four years ago, um, a good friend of mine, Taylor Moss, who is another country singer, um, she, yeah, she came and stayed at my house and, um, I can't remember why, maybe she had a gig or something and yeah, she was like, We should try write a song together.
And I was like, Oh, I haven't written a song in seven or eight years. Like, no, no. I was like, I'll give it a try though. And I had it and we wrote this song and it was, I was like, Oh my God, this is good. Like this is actually good. And, um, it became her next single and I was just like, Oh my God. Like, look at me a songwriter again.
And I was so proud of it. Um, it didn't do amazingly well, but we wrote another two or three songs, um, you know, not long after that. And one of them ended up, it's, it's almost got 3 million streams now. Yeah. So ain't no girly girl.
Rae Leigh: Oh yeah, I've heard that one.
Hinterland: one? Yeah. Yeah. Banger, banger of a song. Um, and yeah, like, you know, I remember we wrote that song in my lounge room and it was just like, it was so cool.
It was like, Wow, this is cool. And then a few months later she was recording it and I was like, This is what it's like, you know? And, and I came in, I did some bvs and everything, and then my friends, Rachel and Rob, who, um, I've been friends with forever. Um, to put it into context, Rob actually recorded, like, he, he has a studio, home studio and he was the producer who I worked with on my albums
Rae Leigh: Okay. The
Hinterland: 18, nine.
Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: him for a long time.
Hinterland: Yeah. Yeah. Since, since, Yeah. So he's, he's known me throughout this whole thing and, and then we've worked together in, in our cover bands and stuff like that. Rachel and I formed a duo, uh, when I first moved to the Gold Coast called the Daisy Jukes, which is just like a cover duo. And that's, you know, where I sort of learnt to be a much better musician and performer.
Rae Leigh: Mm-hmm.
Hinterland: And they had sort of been, they used to have a band, a, a family band called the Boss Docs, which was them, plus their brother and sister. Um, but you know, as, as time goes on, you know, Sarah, their sister, you know, she had babies and moved away and Brendan left the band and they're all still good and everything, but you know, that life happens.
Rachel and Rob were still, no, we still wanna do it. Um, and they were working together, riding as a duo and, um, you know, not really doing, not having a proper goal of it though. Um, but it was like, I was, I was their biggest cheerleader. I'm the biggest fan, you know, So I was like, That's so great. I'm so excited for you.
Um, and they saw that I was riding with Taylor and getting back into it and I was talking about how exciting it is. And Rob went on a tour. He was playing for Casey Barn. So he was in his band for a while and he went on a trip to Nashville with Casey and came back just with a fire under disaster, I guess.
Yep. Um, as you do. Yeah. Nashville will do that, right? He comes back.
Rae Leigh: until I came back from Nashville and I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to
Hinterland: Yeah. You just go, Oh my God, Time's running out. I need to do this . Um, and he came
Rae Leigh: but yeah,
Hinterland: and he and Rachel had sort of, you know, been toying around, you know, um, making some music together and yeah, he came back and he was like, Jessie, I want, I want this, I want the three of us to, to make a band together.
And I was like, Oh, I haven't really, like, Oh, that'd be great. You know? And, um, yeah, it was just an idea for a few months and then we started sort of writing together. Yeah, it just quickly was just like, Oh, this is gonna be good. Like, we just had this, because we'd all worked together in some capacity for such a long time and we all know each other so well.
Um, it just was really like, the chemistry straightaway was just like, Oh, this is, this is it. This is great. Yeah. Yeah. So it, and it was nice for me cuz I never wanted to. I would never be a soloist again. Like, I,
Rae Leigh: couldn't handle that. I mean, Well the
Hinterland: Yeah. It's hard enough. Even like when people refer to me as like the lead singer of Hint Land and I'm like, Oh no, I'm not the lead sing.
We're just a band. Yeah. Like I, Yeah, okay. Most of the songs I sing lead on, but you know, some of them other people sing Lead on and like we just, we're all the singer
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Hinterland: and we're all the lead, you know, like, uh, Yeah. It's funny cuz we're all, none of us have, none of us have lead singers disease, you know, like, we're all like
None of us have, there's, there's no, Yeah. Have you ever heard that Lead Singers disease? No,
Rae Leigh: but I, I've been in band, I think I'm the opposite. It was so bad that I don't know if I could ever be in band again. I'm just like, no, I'm just gonna be solo. Like, I don't know if it's because I'm up myself or have this disease or
Hinterland: it isn't. No, no, no.
Rae Leigh: hard working with people. Like
Hinterland: Yeah. Well it has to be special. It has to, There has to be,
Rae Leigh: sounds like it was really organic.
Hinterland: It was. Yeah. Yeah. So we were just like, Oh, we'll just make some music. Cuz we just, we just wanted to get back into like playing festivals and stuff cuz we, we had done it, um, years and years and years ago.
And because Rachel and Rob were working as the boss doc and they used to release their own music around the same time as I was as a soloist. And because we were all friends and like, we all knew each other's songs because we were essentially collaborating. I mean all the songs are released, you know, 10 or so years ago.
It's all Rob and Rachel playing the instruments. So it was like, we've already done this. Um, and yeah, we'd all with, with age and experience all gotten a lot better and, um
Rae Leigh: and that makes a massive
Hinterland: Oh, totally, totally, totally true. And, um,
Rae Leigh: Sorry. It's okay. Yes. To have agent experience.
Hinterland: Oh, absolutely. Oh,
Rae Leigh: you don't have to be 16. I don't know if you've had this, but it's like this ageist thing that,
Hinterland: Oh yeah.
Rae Leigh: It happens in the music industry. It's like you're too old or you're too young, or you're this or you're that, and you're like, No, you just are what you are.
And you never get to be that age ever again. Just enjoy
Hinterland: That's right. And age, you know, sometimes having a bit of age. I mean, we're not old, we're all in our early to mid thirties. But um, yeah, I mean we're a lot better now. Remember I was even talking about when I was 2021 and stuff like looking back now and going, Oh my God, that I was not that good, You know?
But I was getting a lot of really good opportunities and I look at it now and I'm like, Man, if I was as good as I am now back when I was 20, 21 and getting those opportunities, I'm sure I would be an amazing big deal right now, But
Rae Leigh: years from now, you know, you probably will be and whatever that path looks like, you know, whatever that journey looks like, it's fine.
Yeah. But it doesn't have to happen when you're young. And it does sometimes happen to people when they're young and then we get this false expectation that that is what's meant to be. But actually, if you look at some massive people out there in all sorts of industries, some of them don't start till they're 30, 35, 40.
Totally. You know, and that's it. Whenever
Hinterland: I think music, music shouldn't matter. Your age shouldn't matter all that much in music anyway. Like it doesn't. It doesn't,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's not that it shouldn't, it
Hinterland: need No, it, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: you're applying for a Australian Australia's Got
Hinterland: Idol.
Rae Leigh: or idol,
Hinterland: Idol now
Rae Leigh: have to be under 28.
Hinterland: Yeah. 15 to
Rae Leigh: to burst your bubble.
Hinterland: Yeah. Uh,
Rae Leigh: I cut myself in half, I'll be, uh,
Hinterland: you.
Rae Leigh: eligible.
Hinterland: Yeah. That's interesting isn't it? Like yeah, we're looking for the best singers in this age bracket. Like
Rae Leigh: Part of me feels like it's, um, because unfortunately with. Labels. We talked about this earlier before the podcast, about labels. They make their money from copyright and copyright law and like, and the industry.
That is how these publishers and co um, labels make their monies with copyright. Yeah. Um, and most of the time, unfortunately, when you're younger, you don't understand that. And so you're more likely to get taken advantage of. And there's so many stories, like I swear almost 50% of the people I've talked to have signed a contract that didn't understand what they were signing.
And it's, it's set them back
Hinterland: new. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. So true.
Rae Leigh: Like younger people in the industry need to be protected. But at the moment, I feel like because of lack of awareness and education, you know, that
Hinterland: And also because they see the, they see it as like, Oh my God, like this is my opportunity, This is my chance to be a big
Rae Leigh: had it. Like I've had, I've had record label deals and publishing deals. Yeah. And they're like, We're gonna sign you up to this and this, and we're gonna give you this, blah, blah, blah. And then you look at it and you're like, I'm literally, It's like, you know, It is a product.
Right. Your copyright. It's a product. It's like going to someone and be like, Oh, yay, I've sold my car. And then it'd be like, Okay, great. Wow, that's awesome. You really wanted to sell your car? No, I didn't wanna sell my car. Well, how much did you get for it? It's like, Oh, I didn't get
Hinterland: get
Rae Leigh: anything. . You mean you just gave your car away?
Yeah. . Yes. And it's like that, that's what a record label in a publishing thesis. It's your product, it's your
Hinterland: They're selling
Rae Leigh: value. Yeah. And they wanna buy it off you. Yeah. And if you don't wanna sell it, then you should be charging more . Yeah. Don't give it away. Because the concept of quotation marks having a deal Yeah.
Is gonna make you seem more important. It does.
Hinterland: No, that's right. And in country music, um, especially in Australia, um, being independent, everyone, everyone wants to be independent now. Like the, the old dream of like playing a gig and there's a record label executive off the back of the room and he comes up to you at the end and says, Here's a million dollar deal.
You know, that used to be the dream.
Rae Leigh: Um, but you gotta pay that million dollars back. It's really just like, I'll loan you some money. Yeah. And, uh,
Hinterland: yeah. And then I'll take it back and more
Rae Leigh: back and more Yeah. . Yeah. Um, but this is where I actually also like what you said, because as independent artists, um, or independent bands or record labels and owning your own stuff, it's actually more important for us to work together and support each other targeting, because that is, that's exactly what a record label, essentially their greatest value is the connections and, and the support that they do within what they're building.
Um, and that is where their value comes from. And so as independent artists, if we just start supporting each other and working together and collaborating and, you know, festivals where we play on similar bills and all that sort of stuff.
Hinterland: sort of, And no undercutting
Rae Leigh: and no undercut and just.
Hinterland: Just, you know,
Rae Leigh: each other what we're worth, and support however we can, and don't make it a competition because it's not, um, then that, then we don't need record labels.
Hinterland: Yeah, absolutely.
Rae Leigh: to give us money, or like fans to like, and
Hinterland: By merch and, and support. Yeah. Look, I've, you know, a joke I often make is like, if you're in the music industry to make money, like you are mad, like
Rae Leigh: yeah. Get a job,
Hinterland: just, Yeah. It's just kind of like, look, it's, it is definitely a passion project. And, and even like, it's funny when you talk to artists who would be perceived as like, this person's made it, they're doing a great job. Like they're killing it and I won't name any names, but like legit people, you'd be like, Wow, this person.
You know, they're the, this is, this is what making it looks like they're not well off, you know, like they're
Rae Leigh: I'm broke.
I get supported through buying me a coffee for this podcast. And actually, literally last week, I could not afford to renew the website for this thing. Oh no. And I was pretty humbled by it. And I put out like a video, first time I'd asked people to help. And that within 24 hours, the power of the supporters, they'd paid for it.
And the website was back up and running. And I'm like, Thank you. Cause I had a car crash and I can't afford this
Hinterland: Oh no. Oh,
Rae Leigh: So, you know, but stuff happens, right?
Hinterland: Yeah, absolutely.
Rae Leigh: know, and like, Yeah, no, this passion means to suffer
Hinterland: suffer. Yeah. And most,
Rae Leigh: we do, we suffer
Hinterland: most artists are working three jobs of real jobs, you know, in order to pay for their hobby. And, and, well, I, I won't say it's a hobby, but in order to pay for their music, indu, their music job, their career,
Rae Leigh: taken a job this weekend that I don't really wanna do. Yeah. Just to pay for my next single
Hinterland: exactly. And that's, that's what you do. That's, that's what you gotta do. Cuz what people don't realize is how expensive is it, is to actually not only put record the song, but then to actually service it to radio and put it out and, and, and actually get people to hear it.
Rae Leigh: And you have to have a music video and you
Hinterland: Oh yeah. Oh, you gotta do all these things.
And,
Rae Leigh: you have to have merch. And
Hinterland: most, most, um, most people I know will budget about 10 grand per song. You know, which
Rae Leigh: probably about right
Hinterland: that's, Yeah. It's wild. You know, and, and the return you get from that is, Yeah, okay, maybe that song will do well, but you're not gonna make 10 grand. Like, or maybe one in a million chance. Like, might as well go and buy a lottery ticket.
Rae Leigh: mm-hmm. . Um, I feel like that's what it is though. It's kind of like gambling, It's kind of like investing, It's more of a gamble than an investment.
Yeah.
Hinterland: Yeah. , yeah. Yes, definitely.
Rae Leigh: knows? Like you could have a song that, you know,
Hinterland: but no, that's, that's
Rae Leigh: you know?
Hinterland: do it, obviously.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. You don't do it for the money. Do it because it might save someone's life. I know. It saves my life. , every time I release something I'm like, This is healthy for
Hinterland: Well making music for me, as you know, you were saying before about like therapy and stuff like that, making music is now, it kind of, it kind of is my therapy I guess. Like, and it's not even, cuz we don't, we don't tend to write too personally because there's three of us. So it can be hard to be like, Hey, I wrote this song about this way I'm feeling because the other two people might not necessarily relate to it.
And you know, we do, we we try to, yeah, try to write,
Rae Leigh: segue. How do you guys work out what you want? Do you have like some boundaries around like, this is what we want to present as a
Hinterland: preserve? Uh, no, not really. We, um, we kind of just all bring whatever we have to the table, um, whenever we have it, and just be like, Hey, what do you think of this? And what do you think of that?
And we are lucky enough that, you know, sometimes, you know, someone will bring something and someone else will go, Oh, I don't really like that or something, and no one gets offended or anything. We just go, Okay, well that's not for the band. You know, like I'll say if I wrote, like, I actually started writing a song the other day that it, that was actually a little bit personal and straightaway I was like, Yeah, yeah.
And it was very personal. It was about me and stuff I was feeling. And then I was just straight away I was like, Oh, this isn't Interland. Like, you know, And, but there's nothing wrong with that, you know? I don't know what I'll do with it if I'll give it to somebody else or, you know, it might become hint to
Rae Leigh: You might release it one day in the
Hinterland: Yeah, I might share it, I might share it with Rachel and she'll go, Oh yeah, I totally get that. And then, you know, so we all just create, um, we've got a few different ways of working together. So either it's, you know, one of us will have an entire song idea or something and we'll either lay it down as a voice memo or we'll start actually, you know, putting bits and pieces together on, you know, garage band or Cubase or something.
Um, and just be like, This is my idea. And take it as far as we want before we share it. And then be like, this is, you know, what do you guys think of this? And a lot of the time it'll be like, Oh yeah, that's great. And then, and then someone else will go, Oh, I got a good idea for that. And then they'll layer onto it and, and we'll just go back and forth until we are, we're all like, This is it.
This is how the song is. Cuz I like to.
Rae Leigh: of,
Hinterland: Sort of think of a song like when you write a song that it's there in the universe and you just have to like dig and find it. You know? Like it already, like it's already there, you just have to find it. So it's not, I know that sounds a bit weird cuz you are technically just making it as you go.
But yeah, once, once, once it's finished and you go that.
Rae Leigh: was it. Yeah,
Hinterland: was, that's what it, that's what I was trying to find, you know, So,
Rae Leigh: isn't it?
Hinterland: yeah. Almost. So it's, yeah, it's cuz cuz otherwise, um, you know, there's, there's kind of this theory of like, when is a song finished? Well, it's, it's never finished. You could keep adding bits and Bos to it.
Take things out, change this to it, it it's only finished when you decide it's finished. So, um, yeah, we sometimes we'll do it that way. Yes. Odd.
Rae Leigh: Owens,
Hinterland: Exactly. And then sometimes it comes out and you go, Oh God, I should have done this. I should have done this differently. Um, but yeah, you, that's, that's the hard thing about being a creative and it'd be the same with painting or something like that.
You have to be, you have to be the one to go, Okay, that's done. Now I'm not gonna paint, not gonna put any more paint on that. Um,
Rae Leigh: someone told me once that, um, you don't. Finish songs, they just escape. And
Hinterland: just, Oh, there you go.
Rae Leigh: and you just have to let
Hinterland: That's true. And that's it. And like we've, we've got a song coming out. Oh, I'm sure this'll,
Rae Leigh: It's coming out today. It's
Hinterland: coming out today.
Ah, excellent. So yes,
Rae Leigh: you got a new song coming out today, and you mentioned that this was a collaboration
Hinterland: Yeah, this one, this one was very collaborative. So this was the other style of writing that we have. Um, this one is, So Robin Rachel had written a chorus for a completely different song years ago. Years ago, and had a really cool melody, cool chords, and just a cool vibe, you know?
And we were like, Yeah, we love this. It was actually, it was an entire song. Um, and I was always a bit like, I'm, I'm the main lyricist in the band and I'm really like finicky about lyrics. I'm the one who'll tear it apart. And
Rae Leigh: I love people like
Hinterland: you just have to not be offended. And I'm going to say, No, that's crap and I'm gonna give you something else.
And, you know, and thankfully none of us actually get too offended. And there's times when I will be like, Oh, here go, what about this? And Rachel Gar don't like that. I'm like, Okay, cool. Like, and, and, and half the time it's, I'm writing it and Rachel's gotta sing it. So it's like, if you don't like it, great.
Let's, let's try something else, but. I didn't love a lot of the lyrics or the concept, but I did like the melody and the chords and everything. And we took it to our producer cuz we were collaborating with, um, Stuart Stewart for this particular song. And he was the same. He's like, we had brought to him being like, We love this song, but we need to tighten up some of the lyrics.
Right. And he was like, Okay. I like the melody and the chords of the chorus. I don't like any of the verses Don't like the chords of the chorus. Like, no, sorry, the chords of the verses. It was literally like, he just was like, I like these chords and this melody. Everything else needs to be redone. And it was just like, Oh, okay.
Well that's, that's almost an entirely new song, and that's what it ended up being. Um, and it was, it was actually a really painful process, this one, because we just kept going back and forth, back and forth with ideas of different lyrics and different concepts, and we finally got like a good chorus and we were like, Yes, great concept, great lyrics.
Now we need to form the rest of the song around it. And I don't generally work that way. I tend, I know a lot of people do this where they write the chorus first and then everything comes in. But I actually write a song top to bottom. I'll start with the first line of the first verse. Um, I don't know why I just chronologically like to get there.
Um, so the ver the chorus is never the first thing I write. So this, it was really confusing for me. And then we tried three or four different chord patterns for the verses, and our producer just kept going, you know, No, that's not it. That's not it. That's not it. And, Yeah, we just, we just, it's, it's so funny because it's such a Frankenstein of a song now, um, and it changes key from the verse to the chorus because it, Yeah, it was just a, Hey, what about this?
That's a cool riff. Oh, it's in a different key to the chorus. How do we make it, like, how do we get it to there? So we, you know, there's like a cool four chord turnaround right before that brings it into context.
Rae Leigh: too complicated for
Hinterland: It's very co Well, its, but it isn't like when you hear it, you'll be like, okay. Like it only changes from like, I think it goes from like G minor to like be flat or something.
And um, it makes sense in context, but at the time, getting our head around it was really weird and.
Rae Leigh: um,
Hinterland: We almost ended up writing it as we were recording it. So yeah, it was . This was one of the more stressful ones. This one. Um, but it has paid off because I think you can listen to it and like, I guess the music nerd in me goes, Oh, this is so cool.
Um, yeah. So
Rae Leigh: everyone's gonna go check it
Hinterland: it out. I hope so.
Rae Leigh: what you're
Hinterland: Yeah. I want, I definitely want you to hear it. Um, yeah, No, but I, but maybe I'm overselling it,
Rae Leigh: but
Hinterland: um, you know, it's not a basic four chord song, like, um, Yeah. But in context it does all flow together. But yeah. Now that I listen to it as one piece of work, I'm like, Oh, yeah, that all works.
But at the time it was like, it was, it was Frankenstein's monster
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And let it sit, see what happens. I love going back and listening. I, I, I usually am over the song by the time it gets to release. Yes. And then I don't listen to it for a while. I let all the radio stuff happen and then I, when I listen back, I'm like, Oh yeah. Nope. That
Hinterland: Well, we recorded
Rae Leigh: go from editing and mixing and all that to then finished
Hinterland: well, we recorded this song back in May.
Last year.
Rae Leigh: Oh, it's been a while
Hinterland: So it's, it's almost what, like 18 months just about, Cuz we've just had other songs that, it's not that they were better songs or, you know, it was just kind of like, it just didn't feel like this song's time, you know? And, um, yeah, I just, it's funny, it's, it's, it's cuz people ask me that, how do you choose when you've got three or four songs sitting there?
How do you choose which one's the single? And sometimes it is just all about timing of like, okay, well our last song was really country rock, so maybe the next one should be a bit more folksy and just, you know, we, I, I don't know. I don't know. It'll
Rae Leigh: it's all a gamble.
Hinterland: it is, it, it really is. And um, I guess with this one, um, and it's so funny with country music because I don't know that this really happens in any other genre, but it is important.
You do have to think about, is this country enough? Which is such a weird. It's a weird thing. I don't think anyone, Yeah, I don't think rappers are like, is this hip popping off? Or like, do lips, like is this pop enough or, you know, like it is, but it really is like that in the country music world. So
Rae Leigh: So you guys, I feel like you do have a very country sound and vocally, um, when I've been listening to the music, I can hear that vocal. Yeah. Um, country sound in there. That's whereas like, I'm not country at all in my vocals.
I have no, no influence of country. Yeah. So the producers always either put in like fiddle or they'll put in like s to
Hinterland: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's, and that's, Well we've got fiddle and, and like lead guitar. And then, I mean, I guess I do have a pretty country vocal sound. Um,
Rae Leigh: some people who have really worked really hard.
Getting that
Hinterland: getting that weird twang thing. It's, I,
Rae Leigh: just a, I dunno what it is.
Hinterland: well, I never, I, I don't, It's definitely like a, there, it's, I call it a
Rae Leigh: a Yodle
Hinterland: Yeah, I can, I can actually yodle, um, I won't do it, but,
Rae Leigh: Oh, now I want you to
Hinterland: No, no, no, no, no. Um, but yeah, it's, I think it does come from what you listen to, like, I, I get compared vocally.
Rae Leigh: like
Hinterland: What I get a lot is Natalie Mains from the Dixie Chicks and Brooke Mcle from the McClements, which is so overly flattering. Like, I wish I could sing like both of them, but that's the, And Miranda Lambert as well is the other, and I guess I listen to, when I do listen that those, I would say those are the three voices I probably listen to most when I was younger.
Um, and I can definitely hear certain inflections that I do and I, I don't even notice when I do it, you know? Um, even, even when we've worked with, um, like our producer Stewart, like we'll sing a line or something and he actually has to be like, Okay, tone it back a bit. You know, like, you go on a bit. Cause I guess the other thing is we all sing.
Do you sing in an Australian accent or an American accent?
Rae Leigh: Uh, well, I think I talk in a British accent.
I've been, I've been told I sound British. My husband's British. I lived
Hinterland: yeah. True.
Rae Leigh: a kid, so I,
Hinterland: So when you record though, do you, do
Rae Leigh: I don't think it's very Australian. Yeah. I don't think I go like this. Um, but I'm also an actor, so like, I train in different vocals, you know, so I, I, I actually, I rely on other people to tell me what it is.
I don't know.
Hinterland: Well, I mean, I guess, I don't know if it's based on what I've always listened to or anything, but if you listen to country musicians even, um, like Australian
Rae Leigh: people go real American.
Hinterland: go really American. Um, and, you know, I guess there is a technique, but there is a reason behind it in terms of singing technique because it's the, so there's reason why the people who do the most damage to their vocal chords are generally British or Australian.
And it's the, it's the placement of our tongue or something, because we talk they much like eh,
Rae Leigh: nasally.
Hinterland: nasally and just a.
Rae Leigh: are back in the throat.
Hinterland: Yeah. Americans have, Americans very rarely will actually damage their vocal chords. Um, but yeah, like British, like, like Sam Smith or Dell, like generally those people who sing with that more, that voice that sounds really, really powerful.
It's because they're, because everything's so open and it's, it's something about tongue placement. I don't know. I've been told by people who know,
Rae Leigh: when, when I was learning American accents, um, one of the things that they said was practice you're American. Like, you know, as if you're with Americans and they said they won't, you will feel like you sound funny.
Yeah. But Americans will just think that you learn to talk properly.
Hinterland: think that.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: And I try to think of that. So I I get over that feeling of feeling funny. Yeah. Um, but I thought that maybe that's why some people put that American twang into their vocal so that they want to break into the American market. It was a huge market.
Why wouldn't you wanna break into it so you don't sound
Hinterland: funny, like I, I don't think I could sing in an Australian accent. I just don't like, it's what I hear every day, but I just don't think it would sound very good.
Like, um, that being said, like the Sunny, are you familiar with the Sunny Cowgirls? So they're country duo, um, they were very, very big 10 or so years ago, and they sing in thick Aca Australian accent. And it's very like, you know,
Rae Leigh: it,
Hinterland: it works for them, like it really works for them, but I, I just couldn't do, I have a really thick Australian accent and I couldn't do it.
Oh really? Oh, that's good. Um,
Rae Leigh: I can hear, You could put it on like,
Hinterland: Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: I could hear that.
Hinterland: I do get told, I do get told that I have a bit of an a accent, but, um, But not as, not like the sunny cowgirls, like the way they, they've got, you know, they sing in an Australian accent and it's so jarring to hear and then you go, Oh my God.
Like whenever I hear, even Australian singers, they sing in an American accent and it's just what we are used to.
Rae Leigh: I think that's saw Dean Lewis, um, cuz someone was like, Oh, why do you sing in an American accent? And he actually did an example. It was like, well this is what this song would sound like if I sang it in Australian.
Let It Sounds Sure. And it sounds weird
Hinterland: It's, it's not right. Is
Rae Leigh: A's and o's and yeah, it's um, it's a bit piercing
Hinterland: Yeah. It's just, it's not very attractive and it's just doesn't seem as musical and God, is that racist? I don't know. But, um,
Rae Leigh: know what you'd call it. It's just about, my grandmother used to say that being a lady is about making everyone in the room feel comfortable.
Hinterland: call, Oh,
Rae Leigh: that vocally that is our job, is to make people feel comfortable.
Hinterland: is, Oh, I disagree.
Rae Leigh: You don't wanna make 'em feel really uncomfortable.
Hinterland: Not really
Rae Leigh: uncomfortable.
Hinterland: but I'd like them to, uh, You want them to feel comfortable, but I want 'em to also be like, Oh, like I, I, I remember someone said about, um, my uncle Tommy, who's one of the best guitarists in the world.
And it's a famous, like, it's, it's a famous quote that I get shared, all that I see all the time, which I think is really funny. And it's like, you know, seeing any other guitarist makes you go, Yeah, I love guitar. And then you see Tommy Emmanuel and you wanna throw your guitar away, you know, . Cause it makes you just go, Oh, forget it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Hinterland: Yeah, just forget it. I'll never be that good. You know? Um, so yeah, I guess being a lady would be trying to make everybody comfortable, but I wanna make everybody feel intrigued.
Rae Leigh: right?
I want people to feel.
Hinterland: Oh, that's cute.
Rae Leigh: I don't know why I just,
Hinterland: No, that's
Rae Leigh: I think we all need to be seen and loved and
Hinterland: But I don't think you, I don't think my music should make people feel that way.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Hinterland: Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe one song, but in general I want people to be more like impressed. Um, Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Cause you're amazing.
Hinterland: Oh, no, no. But just, you know, just like you want, you want, I guess, uh, to be a successful, to be a successful artist, you just have to be the best person in the room at do, at making music, you know? And sometimes that bar is low, sometimes that's not hard, you know?
So, but, you know, um, there's
Rae Leigh: none of your ex co-writers is one listening to this
She's talking about
Hinterland: No, no, no. I'm all mean, like, when you're playing a gig or something, like, you know, you just have to be better than everyone who's watching you. And I do want everybody to feel comfortable. You know, in that, oh, we're experiencing live music right now. We're experiencing this together and everything. But I also wanna be like, But I'm the one giving it to you.
I am the one serving you. I've, this is something I've worked on for a really long time. And, and that's the other thing is when people do get a little bit too, like, there is such a thing as being like too humble, um, with your music and your songwriting, um, because you, you think about it, think about how many hours we put into firstly writing a song and going through rewriting over and over again, Um, and then taking it to a producer, maybe making more changes.
Putting it, putting it all together and making sure it all sounds amazing. Deciding it's gonna be the single, promoting it, and just how much effort and self-confidence and just certainty that this song is what you need to put out in the world. And then you be like, Oh yeah, it's all right. Like
Rae Leigh: Oh, no. You've gotta,
Hinterland: There's so many people who are just like, you know, they're like, Oh, well I'm not the best and I'm, and it's fine.
Like, obviously you're not, but I, I wanna hear somebody be like, This is the best work I've done right now. Like, this is, I want, Yeah, this, this is, this is representation of the best that I can do. Proud of it. And be really proud of it. Yeah. And if you, if you haven't, if you're like, Oh, this isn't the best I can do, go back in the studio.
Don't put it out. Don't put it out until it's fully cooked and this is the best you can do.
Rae Leigh: Eh, I disagree. I've put out stuff that maybe, I think it could have been better, but
Hinterland: but Is that
Rae Leigh: was the best I could do. No, at the time it was like, This isn't perfect because I'm perfectionist, but it was like, this is the best I could do right now with what I have.
Hinterland: Right? Oh, well, yes.
Rae Leigh: it's still good enough.
And I think that was more of like, is it good enough and professional enough to still represent, even though it's not exactly maybe what I envisioned or what I wanted.
Hinterland: Yeah, true. Good enough. Well, I guess if you're
Rae Leigh: better with the next one.
Hinterland: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I guess if you're limited with your resources or something like that, but then you know, you can always re-record songs.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, absolutely.
Hinterland: if, you know,
Rae Leigh: know, I think I was just limited in my ability of knowing what exactly I wanted and how to communicate that
Hinterland: my, That's
Rae Leigh: and how to be confident in a room with someone who is a producer and they've been doing it for 40 years and
Hinterland: having . Yeah. And actually speak
Rae Leigh: Hey, I've only been doing this for two years, but actually I don't like what you're doing.
And then for them to like, that's definitely take that. You know?
Hinterland: and that's all we learned from, and, and you know, like what I was saying about going on bloody, like Australia's got talent years ago and the music I was putting out then, I was way too over confident for how not good it was, you know?
But at the same time, it was the best I could do at that time. So on, on that stance, I go, Okay, well good. That was the best I could do at
Rae Leigh: and now you can see
Hinterland: In the grand scheme of things, it's not the best that anyone was doing , you know, like if I put out a song tomorrow, it's the best I can do. It might not be as good as what someone else can do, but it's the best that I can do.
Um, and if other people pick up on that and they like it, great. And if they don't, I'll put out another song later and whatever, you know? And.
Rae Leigh: a good attitude to have.
Hinterland: Yeah, I guess so. Um, but yeah, I do, It does bother me when I don't, I don't wanna say it bothers me, but, um, when people are kind of sheepish about putting out music and, and you know, Yeah.
And they're not. If you've made something and it's the best that you can do, maybe not necessarily as good as everyone else, but it's the best that you can do, put it out there and just own it and be like, Yeah, this is the best I can do. Loud and proud. Be loud and proud. In a few years you might go, Oh my God, that's not the best I can do now.
Rae Leigh: Mm-hmm.
Hinterland: Put out another best you can do. You know? So, I don't know.
Rae Leigh: know. There, That's
Hinterland: It just makes you feel good and confident and yeah, I mean, I come across as being very, very confident and self assured and all that sort of stuff, but I mean, I'm definitely not, but um, I guess I deal with it all internally and I just know that anything I do put out into the world, despite being quite, um, self-conscious and, and like I do think about all that stuff, I do think about what people are gonna think and I wish I didn't.
But um, yeah, I am actually very self-conscious, but I know that whenever I do put something out in the world, I'm like, Okay, but that is the best I can do. That's, you know, I'm confident with that and I'll stand by it until I do something better , and then I'll
Rae Leigh: you have that, do you have the hindsight thing sometimes later?
Like, Oh, we could have done that. Yeah.
Hinterland: Yeah. I haven't found that with Hint land, um, which is great.
Um, I, I don't know if that's because there's the three of us and we have something so musically special. Um, but it's also,
Rae Leigh: to back it
Hinterland: yeah, the experience to back it up. Um, but yeah, I, I guess it's also going through and like when we play like an original show, um, and we, and we get out and we play these songs, even though they are a couple of years old or whatever, some people are only hearing those songs for the first time.
Most people probably are only hearing those songs for the first time. So even if they feel. Dated or like, Oh, we've made better stuff since then. You still have to sell it. Like this is, you know, And, and we actually played a show, um, a few weeks ago and the song that's coming out today, Strings attached, um, she related to that song and she, she'd never heard it before, and she came up to us afterwards, came up to me afterwards, um, at like the merch table and she's like, That song you, that song you played the one, the Strings attached song.
That was great. Oh, I totally relate to that. And I was like, Awesome. Like, that's so cool. Like, I love that you, I love that you clicked with that, you know, And even though that is, that is like a new one, but if someone came up and, you know, that was the first time she's heard probably all our songs and that's the one that resonated with her.
Whereas there'll be some people who are like, Oh, that song you played that's two years old. I love that. You know, and, you know, songs can always be be found at whatever age they are. So just always make sure you're putting the best out.
Rae Leigh: I love that as a band. Cuz you talked about writing together. Do you ever collaborate and write as a band with other people for projects or
Hinterland: No, not as a band for other people?
Um, it's probably, we try to keep our little magic to ourselves. Um, but I do collaborate with other people, um, as a songwriter. And Rob, um, does a lot of session guitar work. Um, he, he played a lot of the guitar on, um, Amber Lawrence's latest album, which is nominated for an
Rae Leigh: area Woo
Hinterland: woo. he played heaps of the guitar in that, um, and, and Christy Lamb's album, like, yeah, he does a lot of, he doesn't fancy himself quite so much as a, a songwriter.
He's more of, I guess more of a composer, like when we even write together. He very rarely has much input on the lyrics. It's more about the melody and what guitar leaks to put here and, and production elements as well. Cuz he's a producer. So, um, but that, as I was saying to you before we started the pod, is, um, Even though we all contribute in a different way.
And, and the weird thing is the way that songwriters are credited, like say with Ara and all that sort of stuff is it's who wrote the words in melody? That's, that's all it is. But there's actually so much more to it in creating a song. And I often think a lot of session musos should be credited as songwriters because they created accountability.
They created, Hey, like that little, that guitar part there, that's a hook. You know, that's, that's a memorable part. Like you even have to think about like, for example, like men. I feel like a woman by Snia Twain down and nope, that's a hook right there. Somebody wrote that and he was. May not actually be accredited songwriter, although it was probably Mutt Lang.
Rae Leigh: but Yeah, I was gonna say it's probably me. Yeah.
Hinterland: probably him. But do you know what I mean? If, if a session music came in and the producer was like, Oh, we just need like a cool lick here, and he was like, he'd be like, Great, that's it. Cool. Here's your a hundred bucks. Out you go. But that's a huge part of the actual song. It's not the lyrics or the melody, you know?
So when we get together, even though generally Rachel and I. Most of the will will write the lyrics between us, whether or not she wrote most of them, or I wrote most of them or whatever. And then Rob will come through and go, I think this chord should go here. I think, you know, this lick should go here and maybe try this different melody, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We just go evens with it all. So even if it's a song that I technically wrote Head to Toe, or Rachel technically wrote Head to Toe, or it's a ba like the, uh, a song we recently finished in the studio that's not out yet. I don't know when it'll come out, but it was a track, an instrumental track that Rob had completely created, like produced in the studio, and it was just the whole track.
And he's like, Somebody writes something to sing over the top of this, you know? And again, it became one of those, like we wrote 20 different things for it.
Rae Leigh: Um,
Hinterland: And yeah, it ends up really, really cool. But yeah, in a way, technically he didn't write any of the lyrics in Melody, but he made the entire song and we just, we top line wrote to it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Which is a major part of songwriting and, and, and who knows how songs come together. They come together all
Hinterland: together. Exactly. Yeah. And we just wanna make sure everybody who has any input in any way, it feels like a, a team effort.
Rae Leigh: Yep. And I like the fact that you have that just sort of band standard. This is what it's gonna be, agreement. Cuz then you don't have to waste energy or time or have fights over who gets
Hinterland: Oh, well I said this line should be here and this line should be
Rae Leigh: around.
Ah, it's a waste of time, isn't it? And for no value because you're, like you said earlier, there's, there's very little in royalties, um, these days. So as far as one of the things I usually like to ask someone, and it can be a personal thing or it can be as a band, this is what we say. But is there advice that you would give now with all your time and wisdom and experience in the industry that you would give to someone who is just starting out?
Hinterland: Oh, okay. Okay. Yes,
Rae Leigh: go on Australia's cocktail.
Hinterland: Yeah. Yeah. No, um, well, don't, don't expect it all to just happen. Don't fall for any, I guess in a way it's a get rich quick scheme, so don't fall for Yeah. And Australia's got talent or the voice or, or anything like that. Just do the work, you know, like, do just,
Rae Leigh: if you want money.
I heard there's a lot more money in porn,
Hinterland: money
Yeah. No. Well, a lot of the time people just, you know, we want recognition for what we're doing. We wanna share our music with the world, and we wanna, And it's a hard time at the moment for, for gigs and stuff like that, Like, it's so hard. People aren't buying tickets. The cost of living is just right, is skyrocketing.
Um, so it's very, very hard.
Rae Leigh: Um,
Hinterland: And, and everything's moving online too. It's all about like, Oh, you know, go on TikTok and dance around like an idiot and hope something sticks. Um, but
Rae Leigh: But there's no replacement for live music
Hinterland: No. Oh God no. Um, but yeah, I guess don't be afraid to like, just do the work. It is hard work and there are people out there who do, you know, who may seem like they, you know, they just went viral and now they're a big star.
But in a month's time, no one's gonna know who they are. So it's all about the long game. Um, yeah, actually that's a, that's a good way to surmise it, is it's, it's, it's a long game.
Rae Leigh: Mm-hmm.
Hinterland: I'm only now res like experiencing very, very moderate but satisfying level of success. I don't have grand dreams of, you know, touring the world and being a big star anymore, but I just want people to like, sort of hear my music and, and hundreds of thousands of people are, and that's really cool.
And just, just be satisfied because I guess yeah, work hard, be happy, um, with, with what you can put out and what you can do. Um, everything, there's a lesson in everything. There's a lesson in everything. And I, and sometimes you can't see it, but later on you'll realize, oh my God, like that experience led to this and that and the other.
And, and I'm not particularly spiritual, but. I do find that just from life experience, that even when crap things happen, or, or say you put out a song, it doesn't quite connect the way you want it or you, you know, screw up an opportun, like you play a gig that was supposed to be a really good opportunity, but you know, it doesn't go that well or whatever.
There's always, I don't wanna say there's always a reason, but there's always something to come away from that where you go, Okay, well I won't do that next time and just move forward. Um, because otherwise, yeah, otherwise it's very easy to feel down. Um, and yeah, feel like you don't matter and no one cares.
And if you, if you stop making music today, no one would care and look 90% of the time. That's true. And , I'm sure if I stop making music today, no one would care. Um, but I would care. Um, so that's what's important. Yeah. And yeah, if you just be your own biggest fan, don't be afraid to be your biggest fan because you need.
You need to have that. You need to have that. And, and it's not about thinking you're the best thing in the world, but just about being proud. And
Rae Leigh: and if you don't love it, what makes you think anyone else is gonna
Hinterland: gonna Yeah. If you don't love it, and if you don't think it's perfect yet, it's, it can be just keep at it. Just do the bloody work.
Um, and yeah, I don't know. I feel a bit weird about giving advice given that I'm not from
Rae Leigh: I, um, I don't ask this question of everyone, but because you shared so vulnerably, um, about your experience with the TV show and, and then the hate that you
Hinterland: Oh, it seems like it's, it's funny because I know it, I, I rattled on about it for such a long time, but it, it really does now feel like such a small part of, like,
Rae Leigh: Absolutely.
Hinterland: my life.
And I don't really, I don't even remember most of it, but, you know, the key things and just the, the backlash and steroid, that's the stuff that
Rae Leigh: it was hard and.
Hinterland: we
Rae Leigh: we all have to live with trolls
Hinterland: with. Mm-hmm.
Rae Leigh: They're out there nameless, faceless, whatever, trolls. But you know, you said you canceled your socials and you, you went underground, you got married, changed your name, all that sort of stuff.
Um, if you could go back and talk to yourself, right, when that was all happening, it was at its peak and you would, you know, in that really dark space, I imagine it would've
Hinterland: Yeah. Oh yeah. It sucked.
Rae Leigh: because I feel like that's a place that just about every teenager or young person has to live in now because of the way the world is
Hinterland: that Yes,
Rae Leigh: If you were on there, you are living with trolls.
Hinterland: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: what sort of advice would you give to yourself, your younger per self going through that?
Hinterland: Gosh, that's a good question. Um, oh look, I would, similar to what I just said, I would just say, Look, Jesse, this isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things right now. It feels like it. And right now it feels like you got a taste of what you wanted and it. How you expected it and you hate it and you're freaking out.
Um, but, you know, in a few years time, it's all gonna be good. It's gonna feel like forever ago. Um, and I mean, I'm, I wish I, if I could, I would actually just tell myself, like, write about it, Keep writing, Don't stop. That's one thing I regret is that I stopped writing and I just sort of, I don't wanna say I gave up on it, but I just didn't want to.
Rae Leigh: be
Hinterland: Creative and musical anymore. I felt like that had been sucked out of me a little bit. Um, and look, it was a good head check. Um, it was very much a grounding experience. Um, but yeah, don't feed the trolls also
Rae Leigh: That's a good
Hinterland: a big thing cuz I mean back then social media and this whole trolling thing was so new.
Um, and it was, it was crazy cuz now we understand that the people who you know do that, you know,
Rae Leigh: mentally unwell,
Hinterland: and mentally unwell because if, cuz I, I used to think to myself, I wonder if I ever ran into this person, whoever this is. And like was like, Hi, I'm, I'm Jessie, I'm the, I'm that chick. There's, they, those people would absolutely never say those things to you face to face, you know, And this, so this was at a time when, cuz now social media has made everybody.
Like has, Yeah. Well, I don't know, just, just like no one has any sort of empathy and like they just, Yeah, you can just type whatever you want and then hit enter and then walk away from it and not worry about it. Yeah. And, and you know, people have committed suicide and stuff over awful things being said to them by complete strangers and it's horrible.
Um, and at the time it was so new and it felt, I mean, now I would laugh if somebody left like a message like that, I would just write back and be like, Fuck you,
Rae Leigh: like
Hinterland: But at the time I was like, Wow, this person's taken time out of their day, found me contact, like it was a big deal, you know? Um, but again,
Rae Leigh: that says they always, doesn't matter what anyone says, they like, Thanks for your feedback,
Hinterland: No, no, no, not, thanks, Well fuck you for your feedback. Um, yeah, no, cuz it's, it's never constructive. I love constructive criticism if it was like, Oh, you know, maybe you could have done this better. And, but if it's just like, Oh, I think your hair sucks, I'd be like, Well, you suck. Like, go away. Like,
Rae Leigh: reflection.
Hinterland: yeah. It's just, you know, and it's just, I don't know, it's, it's just one of those things.
But I guess, yeah, I would just go back and just be like, Oh my God. Like, don't make this a big deal, cuz it's really not. Um, and yeah, I, I, I handled it pretty well. I guess in the long run I'm, I'm glad I did step away and revet myself in such a way. Um, but it's cool because I've sort of come full circle because for such a long time I was like, I don't wanna know anything about that life.
I didn't want anybody to know, you know, that I had done, had, had a try. I was almost a little bit embarrassed. I was embarrassed actually. Um, That I had had a go at the originals thing and I had screwed it up so badly and, you know, made an idiot to myself and people had abused me and all that sort of stuff.
And I was just like, Oh, like, just, just, you know, shelf that away. Pretend like that didn't happen. Here's the new me ta, don't worry, you guys don't, you know, like, um, yeah, but it's come full circle because now, like, you know, with my songwriting it and being part of Hint land, I go by Jesse Emanuel again.
Like I've, I've, you know, and I have no ill will towards the Emanuel name or that family, but it just, for me, that was just a part of my life and an experience that I would like to forget about. Um,
Rae Leigh: maiden name was Hut and everyone thought I'd be great at tennis and it was not exactly not great at
Hinterland: Well, that was the thing, that was the thing that I got was that, so like I'm a rhythm guitarist.
I'm a perfectly fine rhythm guitarist. When I was 21, I was probably an average rhythm guitarist, but I only played guitar so that I could sing.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, yeah,
Hinterland: So all the comments were about you're a shit guitarist. And I was like, I'm I, I'm not like I am playing guitar, but like, Im not . I'm not a, Yeah. I'm like, I don't need to be a good guitarist.
I just ring him up.
Rae Leigh: because of like dna. I don't
Hinterland: Yeah. It's
Rae Leigh: to be in your dna
Hinterland: Ex. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. And
Rae Leigh: people slamming tennis balls at me and I'd never played because I wanted to say that they beat Hewitt and it was
Hinterland: Oh my god,
Rae Leigh: in Hewitt.
I can't play tennis.
Hinterland: Oh my God. Well, that's a whole other thing, you know, the, the concept and even now that I have children and it's like, Oh, well, you know, they'll be musical and they'll be this, and you're like,
Rae Leigh: like, Well,
Hinterland: No, unless they go and get lessons and work at it. Like you're not just born and you're like, Oh, I can play guitar.
Like I had to have years of lessons. Yeah, No, but that's the thing I've got, I've got two sisters and a brother, none of whom I'm musical, and they have the same DNA as me. Yes, I am musical myself, but like, that's just, that was just what my path was and because I chose to follow it and get music, you know, get guitar lessons and learn how to sing and all that sort of stuff.
But yeah, you're not just born with it. I hate, I hate the idea of, you know, I do, one of my daughters does play drums, so she's been getting drum lessons for two, two and a bit years, Nearly three years. She's fantastic. And whenever I post like a video of her playing or something, everyone's always like, and they mean this in the nicest way, but they, it, it's something that actually irks me quite a bit.
It's like, Oh, it's in her blood. Oh, of course she's great. Oh, she's following in mom's footsteps. And I'm like, No. I'm paying for her to get lessons. She's practicing and she's very good. I don't play the drums. Like, yeah, okay. She's musical and stuff like that. But who's to say that any kid who doesn't have a, you know, there's plenty of kids out there who are, their parents aren't musical.
Mm-hmm. and they're, you know, my mom, Sure. My dad was a music, but my mom was a real estate agent and I don't have some like, genetic predisposition to wanna sell your house,
Rae Leigh: Mm.
Hinterland: like . It's just kinda
Rae Leigh: a preacher and I think I do talk too much, so I dunno,
Hinterland: Yeah. True. But yeah, it's just, it is just funny. I, I, I, I disagree with the idea of crediting any talent and skill. To your lineage when it should be you. You know, you've worked really hard and you've done this and you know, my daughter, I'm constantly telling her, I'm like, This is you babe. Like this. Oh, it's her teacher as well.
But yeah, so it's her drum teacher and it's her and she, she actually is musical, Like she is interested in music and she can sing and stuff, but I've never taught her. It's
Rae Leigh: just.
Hinterland: you know,
Rae Leigh: won't learn anything from me. That
Hinterland: exactly. Sometimes that's for the better
Rae Leigh: better That's fine. I'll just leave them
Hinterland: Yeah. Learn. Despite me.
Rae Leigh: I actually heard on the, have you seen the Garth Brooks, um,
Hinterland: trip? No.
Rae Leigh: It's really good. But he's got two daughters that are also musical. Yeah. And, and it's just the way things are is like, you're always gonna be Gus Book's daughter.
Yeah. That is the, the silver spoon that you bred as far as being Gus Brook's daughter. Yeah. Um,
Hinterland: but it works against you.
Rae Leigh: does it, it can work against you and it can work in your favor.
Hinterland: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: that you have to just take even like Gemma Gemma Casada, you know, like she probably gets told the same things that GU daughters get and. At the end of the day, it's just people's opinions. They're going to see the tiny top of the iceberg of who you are and make an assessment and a judgment of what's underneath there. Yeah. And it's either gonna be they think you're amazing and they see all your hard work that they've put in, or they're gonna think that you've been handed everything on a silver platter.
Either way, whatever they think, it doesn't matter. That's right. It doesn't matter. That
Hinterland: That is true.
Rae Leigh: I would like to know about your influences.
Hinterland: Mm-hmm.
Rae Leigh: um, or, and maybe this is something you've talked about at the Bend. Yeah. But if you could collaborate with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Hinterland: okay. Well,
Rae Leigh: oh,
Hinterland: for Hint Toland, we, I mean, gosh, that's, that's, that's a great question. And because there's three of us, I, I can't speak for Hint Toland myself, but I mean, uh,
Rae Leigh: have you ever gone like, as Hint Toland, like this is, these are the PE bands that we all like
Hinterland: Well, we all like, we all like, um, Zach Brown Band. Uh, The Dixie Well, the Chicks, um, Brad Paisley. Um, Miranda Lambert. Oh, I'd love to do a song with Miranda Lambert. Um, but musically, I don't, I don't know if it would, it would work that much. Um,
Rae Leigh: mm-hmm.
Hinterland: um, the cause, the cause would be great. Um, we share a lot of similarities there, um, musically, and we're very interested in their, in their music.
I know Rob would love to collaborate with the 1975. They, he loves, loves them. Um,
Rae Leigh: what about you?
Hinterland: Uh, me personally? Well, look, I have to say like Michael Jackson because he's the greatest. musically, would it work? Probably not. Um,
Rae Leigh: you would create a new baby,
Hinterland: cry? Oh,
Rae Leigh: definitely.
Hinterland: Definitely. Well, if I'm gonna bring it back to life, I gotta make something good out of it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Um,
Hinterland: but Wow. Yeah. That, that's. That's a loaded question cuz I guess there's, Yeah, so much there.
Rae Leigh: Too many.
Hinterland: So maybe Toto would be good too. Um, Dire straights. Oh, there's too, there's too much there. Um, I guess it depends. It depends. Is it because we're, we wanna put out like a banging song or like, Cuz I don't wanna
Rae Leigh: I used to say co-write and then over the podcast it's 200 episodes.
Whatever. It's kind of evolved into just collaborate because it really depends. So, um, if you were to co-write a song, which essentially means you get to work with and talk and be in the same room as someone else,
Hinterland: Okay. Okay. If, Yeah. In terms of songwriting, I would love to, One of my favorite writers, I mean, I love Casey Musgrave's writing. Um, I really like the way she words things in her word play.
Um, and the way she sort of keeps things simple but smart at the same time. Like her word economy, that's what I call it, um, is really incredible in that she says a lot by saying very little. Um,
Rae Leigh: Mayer does that.
Hinterland: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's, and that's something that's very important. That's something that I've learned, for example, like, My older stuff that I wrote when I was a teenager, it was almost like a competition of like, how many words can I put in this verse, like, Um, whereas yeah, now I've gotten to a point of like, okay, well I've kind of already said that. Like, let's not just beat the point home, you know, and being direct and just be like, I've only got three minutes to tell this whole story. Um, so her word economy is fantastic, the way she writes. Um, oh, maybe the Dixie Chicks, uh, like Natalie Manes and, um, uh, uh, again, very hard.
Um, but yeah, I, I really like, I really like a lot of, a lot of writers. Um,
Rae Leigh: That's fine. You're only supposed to pick one. That's fine.
Hinterland: Yours fine.
Rae Leigh: right?
Hinterland: right? Yeah, that'll do.
Rae Leigh: do it.
Hinterland: that in. I dunno why I'm like, I'm like making out, like, it's like you're gonna make this happen and if I make the wrong choice, like
Rae Leigh: Oh, well no, the reality is, um, most, you know, a lot of people listen to this podcast, you never know.
Hinterland: No, of course.
Rae Leigh: um, what's gonna happen and
Hinterland: No, I just, whenever I get asked these questions, like I really like, you know, I can't just be like, Yeah, such and such. Yeah. But like, cuz cuz I'll drive home and be like, Oh, I should have said such and such, like you
Rae Leigh: say dead or alive, but you know, it makes sense to pick someone who's alive cuz then there's actually like maybe a slight
Hinterland: there is a chance.
You never know. You never know.
Rae Leigh: Um, my goal is to interview every living songwriter on the planet. So,
Hinterland: um, Oh wow. Then
Rae Leigh: I do interview Casey, for example. Yeah. I'll let her know. I'll be like, Someone wants to write with you,
Hinterland: Yeah. You know what, actually speaking, I would, I would love to write with Casey Chambers. Casey Chamber. That's possible, right? We might get there.
Um, and actually I'd really like to write with Brooke Mcle as well. Okay. Yep. So if you can make that happen, that would be great. Sure.
Rae Leigh: You can buy me a coffee and I'll, uh, I'll get onto that.
Hinterland: That'll be worth, I'll buy you a week's worth of coffee. Buy you a bag of
Rae Leigh: a lot of coffee.
Okay. Um, you know, you know, I'm a mum of three. I drink a lot of
Hinterland: Yeah, yeah,
Rae Leigh: Um,
Hinterland: All right.
Rae Leigh: So you've got the new song out today. Yes. What else is coming up? Shows, songs. Ah,
Hinterland: that's, it's hard at the moment because you kind of just live single to single at the moment. Um, we are potentially locking in something for Tamworth, which is in January. Mm. So, yeah, hopefully that'll, that'll, um, all fall into place. Um, and then we've, yeah, we've got a few other things where it's like, you know, we've got a few other things sort of fallen into place, but nothing locked in yet.
We're really hoping that 2023 will be a big year for us in terms of festivals. That's the ultimate goal. Obviously we've missed out on a lot this year. Um, simply because the lineups have been stacked from, Oh, sorry. We've, we've, Yeah. Because it's like, Oh guys, we love your work, but we booked all these people two years ago, and so they've had these rollover lineups.
Yeah. Which I totally respect, and
Rae Leigh: you guys started releasing in 2020 as
Hinterland: We sure did.
Rae Leigh: that was when I first my song as well. So yeah. All the backups is like, All right, we'll just wait till
Hinterland: we did manage to, we did manage, we scored groundwater and Savannah in the round last year, um, and ended up being thrown into, uh, a festival called Bush to Bay last year as well, simply because the borders were shut and they were like Queensland acts, and we were like, yes.
Rae Leigh: that
Hinterland: Um, so, so part of me is like, I'm actually happy that like groundwater, um, next week is pretty stacked with like Melbourne acts because it's my first time. Oh my God. Oh, you gonna have so much fun. Oh, it's so amazing. I'll have to come
Rae Leigh: When you were saying like, um, on with Justin that you were gonna find something like, Oh, you can sing a song with me. Except I think they have like a limit. They've, I've been, I'm only allowed to have two people on stage any one
Hinterland: Oh, really? What stage are you playing? Just
Rae Leigh: the, the mall stage
Hinterland: the mall
Rae Leigh: the beginners. I remember a couple years ago, Casey Barnes played on there.
Hinterland: Oh, oh. I'll find it.
Rae Leigh: It's kinda like in the main strip, not the main stage where they're closing off the road, but that where it's open all the time. Oh, under the sail.
Hinterland: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll, I'll come say gday. But we, we had three, like main stage. Oh. We had two main stage gigs and the, Oh, the little acoustic one out, out the front of, I know where it is.
We did an acoustic set there last year. Yeah. Um, and that was actually really awesome. Yeah. Like that was the one we were like, Mm, that'll be crap after doing these main stage gigs. But it was actually really awesome. Um, it was really fun. Um, but yeah, I'm totally gonna get out and experience it as a punter, like it's so cool.
But, um, yeah, I'm actually really happy to see lots of interstate acts because I'm friends with a lot of, um, bands and artists who, who were in Melbourne last year, and
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Hinterland: God, I just felt so terrible for them getting locked down. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I'm from
Hinterland: For.
Rae Leigh: originally and
Hinterland: It's really dark, so I'm so excited to see them get out and play. Like I'm so happy for them.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Hinterland: But also I want those gigs back next to
Rae Leigh: you, give 'em back. Um, That's awesome. Well, I'm sure that, I'm sure that Mark will get you up there at some point, or, you know, um, you guys are amazing and it's really nice that you're so local and that there's some country love and Gold Coast and,
Hinterland: The Gold Coast has become like, you know, with Casey Barnes and stuff as well. Like it's very much a bit of a country music hub
Rae Leigh: where you got Liz City Waddington and Alan Caswell and you got Adam Brand here. Um, you got
Hinterland: Lee Hergan lives here too.
Rae Leigh: Lee Keigan. Yeah. Um, and Tanya Keigan.
Hinterland: It's practically
Rae Leigh: guys, This is the new
Hinterland: This is it. Well, we,
Rae Leigh: we don't wanna drive nine hours to Tamworth anymore.
We're gonna just do it here.
Hinterland: Well, trust me, groundwater like the difference between ground, like no offense to Tamworth.
Love you Tamworth, but groundwater that's,
Rae Leigh: the,
Hinterland: That's the big new festival. That's, that's the one, Right. We do love our Tamworth. Don't worry.
Rae Leigh: we're still coming. I'll be, I've got, you know You got,
Hinterland: Yeah, I think we're, we're gonna do something at Tamworth. Yeah. But yeah. I'm dreading the drive. Sorry.
Rae Leigh: But
Hinterland: you're right. I would much rather drive to Broad Beach
Rae Leigh: I ac I accidentally took a wrong turn at Armadale once and ended up on the bad road
Hinterland: Oh no,
Rae Leigh: And it was like, What? And I'm seeing these pothole, cause it was after all the rain.
Hinterland: Oh, it
Rae Leigh: Oh no.Oh no. I'm heading into the mountains with the potholes and the turns. I'm like, damn it.
Hinterland: Last time we went down, we went down in Rob's like piece of crap car and Oh man. It was, it was dire. I was very worried.
So this time when we go down, will we, going down in
Rae Leigh: Yeah. We just need to do a call out to the road gods, whoever those people are that
Hinterland: No, we just want some cheaper flights. It
Rae Leigh: those roads to Tamworth. Oh yeah. Like get some helicopter rides in.
Hinterland: Oh, just cheaper flights? Yeah, just cheaper flights. Let's
Rae Leigh: got an airplane in Stan thought maybe we should get 'em to fly us. Yes, that would be
Hinterland: I'm up to that. Absolutely.
Rae Leigh: I just don't wanna become one of those like artist statistics that die on a plane crash. All right. Thank you so much, Jesse. This has been fun and I can't wait
Hinterland: you.I so appreciate it. I hope I didn't talk too much.
Rae Leigh: Ah, that's what it's here for. That's fine. . Okay.
