#205 Rachel Koster
Australian singer/songwriter Rachel Koster believes that creativity can be a force for good in the world. With a love for her craft she shares her years of writing experience in the industry and how she feels the full circle of hearing a song on the radio to sitting in the room with those same artists and writing.
She explains her incredible journey and experiences. Her songwriting collaborations have involved musicians including long term co-writer Stuart Fraser, as well as Gary Pinto, Stephen Cummings, Sean O’Boyle, Michael Barker, Chris Haigh, Bruce Haymes, Luke Austen, Limmel, Nashville’s Karin Papperelli, Australian Idol finaists, and others. Songwriting is Rachel’s joy and she is passionate about writing for other acts in all genres from country to pop to EDM.
Much of her commissioned work involves writing for artists, projects, musicals, children’s music, theme songs & awareness campaigns. Rachel is also a solo pop & acoustic artist, and releases alongside her debut album Deciduous are Breathe, December, Carnival (with Blake Gannon) and Table. New singles wait in readiness for 2023 including the track Dundas Street, and collaborations with Rick Price. Rachel has run Songwalk songwriting workshops since 2020 in Australia with fellow writers Boi Crompton & Eskae Van Eck.
Connect with Rachel:
Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a Songwriter Trysts with Rachel Koster. Thank you so much for joining me.
Rachel Koster: Thanks for having me, Rae. It's lovely to meet you finally, after this time.
Rae Leigh: I am so excited, and thank you so much for all of your support and for listening in. And now it's my turn to learn all about you. So you probably know the first question. You probably know most of these questions actually, if you've been
Rachel Koster: I do. I think I've listened to all of them. All thes.
Rae Leigh: All right, All the truths. Let's start, let's, let's, let's start this one with a bang. , tell me who are you and where do you come from?
Rachel Koster: All right. Um, so I'm Rachel Costa and I'm a songwriter and vocalist from Queensland and I've been writing since I was 15. Um, I write songs with and for pop acts and country acts, and even some blues and other styles as well. Um, I've been commissioned to write stuff, so songs for me, musicals and kids performers, awareness campaigns and things like that.
And I'm a solo. And a co-writer as well. And I also run songwriting workshops called Song Walk with, um, two other wonderful people called Boy Crompton and aca.
Rae Leigh: and, and
Rachel Koster: I've been around for a few years, and songwriting, as I said to you earlier, is my joy. I just love it. I, I just, it's my favorite thing in the world.
Yeah.
Rae Leigh: You've mentioned so much stuff that I wanna know, like everything about, Um, so it's like, okay, so where do I start? But what I wanna start is, let's, let's go back to when did you know that you were a songwriter? When did you that passion? Do you, is there a moment for you or how did that evolve?
Rachel Koster: Well, I've always loved it. I, I remember as a kid walking around singing songs mainly about butterflies. I dunno why, but that seemed to be the thing.
Rae Leigh: the thing. I like
Rachel Koster: Um, yeah.
Rae Leigh: on my bed. I dunno if you can
Rachel Koster: So I was always in the garden singing songs. Oh, really?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's like, it's like a full butterfly, like, um, doo set Anyway. Yeah,
Rachel Koster: Oh, that's cool. See, Soul Sisters
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Rachel Koster: And the funny thing is, my niece, she walks around, she's like five or six, so she walks around singing songs all day too. So I think she's gonna be a songwriter when she grows up. But yeah, I started doing it as a kid, but not properly. That was just, you know, kids being kids.
And then when I became a teenager, um, I came across the Beatles and fell in love with them. And I also discovered John Barnum's Chain Reaction album, and I just loved that it had so many songs on it that were. Um, you know, social awareness stuff and it had lots of stuff to say, which really was what I thought.
And it made me just go, That's what I wanna do. I just was like, This is my thing. And I started writing songs because I like, that's what I wanna do now and forever more so, um, yeah, I started writing songs. They weren't all in that vein though. They weren't all about, you know, political things or anything like that, but, I just started writing songs generally, and I had a couple of people who at school were into music as well, so we would write songs together and those ones were political I dunno why, cause I'm not that kind of person, but I, it just appealed to me that you could say what you were thinking and disguise it as a song and you didn't get in trouble for that
Rae Leigh: That's, that is so true. I did exactly the same thing. Like if I was at the piano and I wrote like a really sad song, I felt like I could just say, Oh, it's just a song. I didn't have to explain where those emotions came from.
Um,
Rachel Koster: exactly. It was a bit like that. Hey,
Rae Leigh: Well, it's kinda like, well, you know, people can fight with art, but art's not gonna fight back. It just is what it is. So, you know, there's no debating with it. It just, which is nice.
Rachel Koster: Yes. That's what I think too, and it seems to be a bit more accepted by people. They just go, Oh, that's just that
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And, and if it's not, you know, if they don't accept it or they're triggered or whatever, it's like, All right. Like , what are you gonna do about it? Fight with that song. Um, , I mean,
Rachel Koster: Yep.
Rae Leigh: music and, and art and I mean film and all that sort of stuff, it does, um, provoke emotions and sometimes it can provoke negative emotions in people because it triggers them for whatever reason.
But I don't, I don't believe that triggering. Someone is actually a bad thing. I mean, I've been triggered my entire life, but it's the triggers that help me be aware that I have those triggers in my life and I need to deal with them. You know, if
Rachel Koster: Exactly
Rae Leigh: if that's the mindset that you have, obviously you need to be okay with that and be in a space where you feel safe enough to look at that stuff.
But so is, was, was there like social stuff, cuz how old were you when you were listening to John Fineum and the. Um,
Rachel Koster: 15 when I came across that and yeah, I don't know why. I think it's just when you're a teenager you've got lots to say, haven't you? But I was a pretty shy kid and you know, I wasn't that kind of outspoken person, so this was a way I could be without. Everyone, you know, paying too much attention. , I could just say what I wanted to say and, and there it was.
So, um, not that anyone really even heard them, but I was putting that, that stuff down, you know, and it was just getting out of me. So, um, but also apart from all of that too, I still love stuff. That has something to say. That's something I actually really love in all music. But I also had an uncle who went overseas and came back with some recordings of some islander music when I was a kid, and beautiful harmonies, and that was the first time I'd ever actually heard.
A large amount of that. I'd seen it on TV of course, but you know, someone had recorded this in real life with these people and I just fell in love with island music and indigenous music from there on. And I still am , I'm obsessed with it. So it, it's kind of my happy place. I just go and listen to it when I need to.
And I love it. I love language stuff as well. And even though I don't really know what they're saying, most of the time I still connect with it. And um, I have an indigenous niece and some other indigenous family, but I'm not indigenous. But I have a very strong connection with that kind of music for some reason.
I don't know if it's from growing up in the country, you know, And you have that connection with earth and your surroundings, which is what people in the, you know, the islands do and people, you know, indigenous people do. So maybe that's the connection that I've sort of carried with me as well. So yeah, that's just been a constant for me.
I love for an islander and indigenous music.
Rae Leigh: I love that. Okay, so you, you've developed what you like and you can say something with music and you were shy. I can relate to that. Um, at what point in your life were you like, this is what I wanna do with my life as like a career?
Rachel Koster: Yeah. Um.
Rae Leigh: big, big turning point.
Rachel Koster: It is. Well, when I left school, I, I still wanted to do music, but there wasn't that much of it around, you know, where I lived. So, um, I ended up just working a factory job for a year and then I saved up to go to Melbourne, cuz that's where it was at for me. Like, that's, that's music town. I'm going there.
So I saved all this money, went to Music Town, , and um, and I loved it. And that sort of made me start being more passionate about it fully. And the weird thing is, on the flip side to that was, By working in that factory job for all those months and not seeing anybody but those same people I ended up with, um, social anxiety, so I would have panic attacks and things.
So, um, that made it hard then to pursue my music because I would have this happen to me. But no one spoke about that sort of stuff back then. Um, and what happened was a lady came who was a singing teacher, and she started a popup choir, and I'm like, Well, I'm just gonna force myself to go to this. This is something I need to do,
And I remember coming home for from that, and it was so overwhelming for me because of what I was going through that I would just cry my eyes out at the end of each session. But I loved it while I was there and I loved it, but it was just so stressful. But there was so much joy in it too, and I just kept going and it sort of helped to take that away because.
Kept putting myself in that situation, but it was in such a creative, beautiful environment that it kind of cured me of that situation and I haven't had it since. So that was just a beautiful outcome from music and it kind of saved me
Rae Leigh: Yep. Thank you. Music. Thank you. Music again,
Rachel Koster: So I
Rae Leigh: the Gay.
Rachel Koster: going after that. Yeah. . So
Rae Leigh: own superhero for like everyone. It just, and it and it, you know, it can save everyone all at the same time. It just has this, such a. Massive impact on, on the
Rachel Koster: powerful, isn't it? It really has such a broad, um, amount of things it can do for people. I just love that about it. There's not really much else that can do that, so. Yeah, so I, that is something that happened and then that singing teacher stayed on because it was such a demand for her. So I started having lessons and gradually, bit by bit ended up being able to perform on stage.
So I did it, you know, with a group and then with a duo with a friend of mine who had a beautiful Tracy Chapman style voice, and then, I started doing solo stuff and in that time I also met just by, it was actually a pen pal, , you know, back in those days,
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Rachel Koster: I met this, this guy who was a songwriter and we would have, we would use, we just used to write to each other, and then after a while we'd have these long phone calls and it cost a fortune.
I was basically working to pay for these phone calls where we talk music and write songs over the phone.
Rae Leigh: Aww.
Rachel Koster: I went to Perth and then I sang on his album and it just went from there. I just was like, This is my thing now.
Rae Leigh: I love that. So I mean, cuz you, you've gone on to do obviously so much. When did you end up back in, in Queensland.
Rachel Koster: I was still in Queensland when I did that. I just went over there to record. Yeah. Yeah, I've stayed in Queensland, but I've gone to Melbourne to record and do things interstate. As well. Yeah. But I, I just basically because there was not no internet, well there was internet, but there wasn't like social media when I started out.
It was just a case that I would put myself in situations where I would meet people and just kept doing that until I built up some connections with, musicians and, just nurtured those, contacts, some of which I've still got
Rae Leigh: Her
Rachel Koster: so, and yeah, it's weird how that happens. At one stage, you're sitting in a room with someone you listen to when you're in your, your teenage years, and you're like, What?
This is weird. This is surreal . And you're sitting there, you know, writing a song with them or you got them playing for you or something. And it's very strange, , but it's, it's a beautiful thing cause it's like a full circle moment. And you can really appreciate it because you, you've done the hard yards to get there kind of thing.
And I think, like, I think it's great that people have the access to people so easily now, but I think that it's kind of nice that back in the day you had to do it the long way around
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I love, I love writing face to face. Um, but yeah, obviously writing online makes, opens up a whole world of opportunity to be able to work with people that you wouldn't naturally have the chance to write with. So it's, um, It's good in it, but I, I, if I have a choice to be in person, in, in the same room as someone else, I'll always choose that.
Rachel Koster: Yeah, definitely. I agree. I'm the same.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Rachel Koster: And it's just the, the banter beforehand and in between as well, and you really become friends with that person. You get to know them pretty well.
Rae Leigh: Well, it is intimate. I mean, that's, you know, as you probably know why that we chose the name truth, because songwriting is such an intimate thing that you do with someone else and you, you share more of your life with someone you're writing with or creating art with than you would an average person, even someone that you might consider a friend.
Don't always go into detail about your suffering or life
Rachel Koster: right. It's basically the day to day things, isn't it? With friends, mainly
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. So it is, it's really intimate and, and then you, you do, you create this bond that, um, is just deeper than, than your everyday, uh, friend from work kind of thing. So it's nice. So, um, now what are you doing?
Cause you're doing a solid project, um, as well. What, Tell me about, like, when did you release your first solo?
Rachel Koster: Yeah. Um, um, I put out my first song, gosh, now I can't remember.
Rae Leigh: Uh,
Rachel Koster: was, Yeah, about 15, 20 years ago. And, um, it was just a Christmas song and, um, that got some ABC airplay and then I followed that up with an album. Yeah. So I was pretty surprised that
Rae Leigh: It's always, I still get surprised when people put my songs on radio. I'm like, Really? You
Rachel Koster: you've voice
Rae Leigh: Oh, thanks. But it is, it's, it's a weird feeling to think that, you know, people like it enough to play it on a platform that someone might not wanna listen to it.
Rachel Koster: Exactly. I get surprised when someone asks, you know if they can use your song for something or something like that, and they're like, I just love it. I'm like, Really?
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Rachel Koster: You just think of it as that. That's that song that's got these mistakes, that you really should fix it or whatever. You have these, you know, when you write it or record it, you always see the faults in them, but you don't actually think of people loving them like you love other people's music, you know?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's different. It's completely different. Um, and I think it's like, it's like, I mean, unless you're a. A particular type of person. You don't go and look in the mirror and be like, Oh my gosh, you're so amazing,
Rachel Koster: Exactly.
Rae Leigh: It's just, it's a, it's a strange concept, I think, especially for Australians. And the same thing with your own music. You'd be like, Oh my gosh, I love my music. But if other people do, that's, it's so, it is beautiful. It's complimentary and, um,
Rachel Koster: yeah, it's pretty nice. Yeah. I put the, my album that followed, that was 2007 I think it was. So I, recorded that with Renee Gay's band. So it was just people who played with her. And I had Stuart Fraser on guitar and, it was just, Amazing to work with these people who I'd loved forever,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Rachel Koster: and they're playing my songs and I just, that they could just play them instantly too.
Just hearing it once and there they go and they play it. Nailed it. You know? And that's inspiring in itself, just to be there in the room with them. So I never take those things for granted. You know, some, some people might just think, Oh yeah, that's what I deserve, but I'm always just like, This is magic.
Rae Leigh: just like
Rachel Koster: always love really. Appreciate the moments when those things happen. But yeah, I put that album out. That was a sort of jazz album, mainly because I do write other stuff, like I have a lot of pop stuff and acoustic stuff and you know, lots of genres. But because I had access to these players, I just picked stuff that went well together and worked.
With their sort of skills and, um, what their style was. So I went with sort of more, more of a jazz slant for the album. And the main reason for the album was I just wanted to show my songwriting. So, um, it wasn't an album to go, Look, I wanna be a star. You know, it was just, This is what I can do. Here's a little collection of some things that I wrote.
Um, so that's why I released the album actually. And I've been just putting out, um, eps and things since then. Yeah, so I do have stuff that people haven't heard that's, you know, EDM music and stuff, you know, and no one's ever heard the, any people I've pitched them to. So I'd love to actually put some of that stuff out under a different name sometime, because it's just be cool to have some.
Other type of music out there.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I actually like, And that's a, that's a fun project. Cause it is hard when you're doing like in quotation, like branding as, as a artist releasing music. You do kind of, there needs to be a common thread I guess throughout all of that music for that artist project because people tend to, if they like it, they want to hear more stuff they'd like.
But it's hard because I like so much different type of music, which obviously you do as well. You don't, you don't wanna really put yourself in a box too much
Rachel Koster: No, exactly. And you know, you never listen to the same style of music each week. You always into something different. So it's the same with writing. You're always writing something different. You might have something that's your main genre, but um, yeah, there's heaps of other stuff that comes out as well.
So, yeah, I think it's good. Yeah, if you put it under a different title, you can kind of get away with it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, you just, you know, you do another project and then you see how you go. So,
Rachel Koster: Exactly.
Rae Leigh: I was gonna ask, I guess as a songwriter, is there a, a common theme or something that you always consider when you're writing a song?
Obviously everything's gonna be slightly different, but have you thought much into that, that part of your songwriting?
Rachel Koster: Yeah. I think for me it's mainly putting something in there that people can feel that they're not alone. So whatever the topic of the song is, there's something in there that they can latch onto and go, Oh, It's not just me that's going through this thing, and maybe there's a bit of a reframe in there that makes them feel like they can cope with the situation or whatever it is.
, I, I like that in music myself. So I try and have fair bit of that in my music. So if you listen to my first album, you would think, Oh, that's not true, because it's mainly love songs. But even in saying, People can connect with the stories in there too, and go, I felt that way. I felt lonely, or I felt, you know, like someone wasn't paying enough attention or, you know, so there's still messages within those as well.
So I guess for me, that would be the thing. That's the common thread through my stuff. Not every song, but, a lot of them.
Rae Leigh: them, I love that. I think it's really important. And love songs and relationships is something that everyone needs. We all need connection of some form. And so I think I, I believe that's probably why we sing about it so much because it's, it's so important and yet so complex.
Rachel Koster: Exactly. That's exactly right.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. No, I love it. All
Rachel Koster: You need to navigate it somehow.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. we're all, we're all just doing the best we can and sometimes we're doing the worst, but that's okay. You just, you keep going.
Rachel Koster: There's always someone else who's doing it worse than you,
Rae Leigh: dream . Absolutely. Well, yeah, you don't, we, I don't wanna devalidate un what do you call it? Not validate, like everyone can suffer and everyone's experience of suffering can be different, but it doesn't diminish the feeling of suffering.
Um,
Rachel Koster: no, definitely. That's so true. I'm glad you said that cuz that is exactly right.
Rae Leigh: I'm, I'm the worst of being like, No, no, no, I'm fine because I'm not homeless. Starving on the streets in the middle of a jungle, you know,
Rachel Koster: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: And it's like, Yes, that would,
Rachel Koster: still feeling something
Rae Leigh: but I'm still suffering something. And so, you know, there's, yeah. Uh, took took me a long time. Therapists telling me that.
But I think it's good to know that it's okay to feel sad or or to be struggling with something at any given point. That's just a normal human reaction to life. So tell me a little bit about your co-writing and collaboration experience, because it sounds like you've done a fair amount of it.
Rachel Koster: Yes, Well, my very first song was a co-write because, I couldn't play piano properly myself yet , so I had to, you know, get dad on the guitar cuz, both my, my father. Both my brothers, they all play guitar. So, um, yeah, that was my first co-write. But, yeah, I've done heaps of co-writing with lots of different people, but the one that I've probably done the most would've been with Stuart Fraser from Noiseworks.
I've wrote with him for about 15 years. And, that just came about from, you know, knowing him and chatting to. After concerts and stuff. And then I just approached him one day cuz I was working on my album and asked if he would like to write on his day off cuz he was on tour and he said yes. So we wrote a song for the album and we just seemed to really click.
I think sometimes with people you really click on a songwriting level and other times it can be like pulling teeth and you learn , you learn something from the thing, but you don't get a song that you're happy with and you go, I'm not doing that again. But I think sometimes it teaches you stuff about your own, way of writing with people too.
Like, I've done one where someone didn't really get what my lyrics were about and he was like, I don't understand this. And so he wasn't that into the song and I probably should have just said, Oh, let's work on something else then. But instead, we just kept on with this song and I learned from that.
Just change the song. If you're doing that and you're having that situation because it doesn't keep the other person. In the, you know, in the flow. So that's something I've picked up from doing that. But yeah, I loved working with Stuart. He, always was on the same page with anything we were writing and if, if we both didn't like something, we weren't afraid to say it and we said it nicely and would have a laugh about it.
So that was a good way of working because. He also, worked with, with me as, as if I was an equal in music. So even though he'd had all the success he's had, he was very down to earth person and always, you know, met you at the same level, which I think you have to do with songwriting. I think, if there's one person thinking they're better than the other, you know, that's not always gonna, create a good environment.
So, even.
Rae Leigh: in any industry.
Rachel Koster: No, that's right. And you know, it is always someone who's more experienced than the other anyway, so , you know, you're never quite in the same as each other. But yeah, I love co-writing and I've done it all different ways. So with Stewart, I'd sit in the room and he would play guitar and I would sing and I'd come with ideas or he'd come with ideas.
Other people I've done, I did one this year with a composer, Schau Boyle, and he sent me, piece of music, which was very, orchestral sort of sounding and grand, and it was done, you know, programmed with on the keyboard and stuff. And he said, Oh, can you write something to this? He wanted it sort of Cape Bush style.
And I'm like, I'll have a go. It was quite a challenging sounding piece and I just said, Do you want it to be about anything in particular? And he said, No. Whatever you think of, you know, and. I just went with what the music sounded like to me. I just sat with it for a few days and then wrote what it sounded like to me, which ended up being a duet.
And the cool part about that is it's now going to be in a musical. So, yeah, it, because of the lyrics I wrote, it sort of matched with the project he was working on. And he's then sent that to the other person in the project and they're, um, gonna include this as one of the songs in the musical. I know.
So I said, Oh, what are your plans for this it Broadway,
Rae Leigh: Broadway. Broadway, Woo
Rachel Koster: like, What? ? Ok. Yeah. So you have these things that happened that are just random and. And they're amazing, you know, So it's always, it always pays to just go and do it, you know? Cause you never know where co-writing will lead. And I love that. Like my main strength is probably writing a ball.
Like I'm pretty good at doing ballads, so if anyone out there wants a ball come to me, I'm your girl . But, if I'm doing an upbeat, sort of up tempo thing, I'd prefer to. As a co-write because if I'm working with a guitarist or someone who can do tracks, you've got that thing there to sit your song on and work with.
So, I think that you can get a completely different song by co-writing with people and it just teaches you so much because you always learn something from the person that you're working with.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, absolutely. And I, I agree. Couldn't agree more sometimes, and probably the same as just co-writing with someone, but having like something to top line over there is already an emotional meaning or feeling inside of. The track, and then you just gotta, if you can be intuitive and, and write to that, um, it can be a really good song.
Um, but sometimes, sometimes I've listened to something and it's like, I just can't feel anything from the music. And so then it's like, why? What do you write when you don't
Rachel Koster: I know I've had that
Rae Leigh: on anything? Yeah. And that's probably the same, like you said with the co-writes. It's like sometimes the only thing you learn from a co-write is that you can't co-write with that person , but you're still, you're still taking a lesson away from it.
And that's all Life is really.
Rachel Koster: Exactly. That's right. I, I was thinking the other day, I was talking to a lady that I wrote a song with recently, and I said to her, The nice thing about co-writing is if you are working on a song that you wrote yourself, it's a bit like going on holiday on your own, and you've got no one to talk about it with
Rae Leigh: software. Yeah.
Rachel Koster: But when you co-write with someone, whatever happens with that song going forward, you're sharing that experience with someone and. You know, you're traveling with someone and you're sharing the, the view and all the things that have happened. And I love that about co-writing. Yeah. And it also opens up opportunities because that person might take it to this particular place and put it on something and
Rae Leigh: it on Broadway,
Rachel Koster: something else.
Yeah. Like, you know, there's other ways that the song can be used because you both have different contacts and different lives, so, um, It gives you those extra opportunities that you wouldn't have if you just sat there and wrote your own song, which is a bonus. Like I hadn't really thought about it too much before until recently and like it really is like that
Rae Leigh: Yeah, it's interesting. Someone actually mentioned a quote, which I really liked. It's like, never underestimate the depths of the networking pool that your contact is swimming in or something
Rachel Koster: Exactly. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: know who they know. Um, even though, and that sounds horrible, it's like, it's not like you're trying to use people, but
Rachel Koster: No, I know, And we're not doing it for that reason.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's like you said, you know, um, some people think they're better than other people and it's like you really, no one knows the other person well enough ever to know whether you are better than them or not. So like, why would you ever treat someone? Like, there's just never a, a reason to treat someone poorly.
Rachel Koster: Exactly. Okay.
Rae Leigh: Cool. So what, let, let's get some of your songwriting co-writing tips then, after all the experiences you've had, what would you say your, your number one tip for co-writing is?
Rachel Koster: I'll give you a good one that Stewart taught me, which I have used heaps, and it is always true and it works every time. He always would just look at me and go Economy. And I'm like, Ah, okay, so this piece that I'm trying to put in doesn't need to be there, . So yeah, less is more. So if there's something in there that really doesn't need to be there, don't put it in there because it sometimes can just make it busy for no reason.
And it can make the song a lot catchier and a lot, um, smoother, you know, without it, sometimes you just don't. Everything in the song. And he was good at leaving space in songs where they needed to be. And I think that's something that you don't often think about what not to put in there. You're always thinking, What can I put in there?
And I thought that was something that was really valuable that I've carried with me ever since. So it's, it's always a good go to if you feel like a song's not working terribly well, what, what does it need to be here?
Rae Leigh: I love that. Yeah. And it's like, um, oh, the workshop that we did with Alan Kawell on the weekend, he is always like, You don't always need a bridge. You know, it's like, if it doesn't, doesn't need to be there. Don't put it in. Um, and
Rachel Koster: also think that it, it applies for lyrics too. Like I've done some co-writing, um, with some people who are sort of newer to songwriting. Um, and often the, the words are kind of too wordy and trippy over, and, and they're hard to sing, so sometimes you can just rearrange the lyrics to make them sing better.
Rae Leigh: sometimes
Rachel Koster: It just makes the song better, so it's, it's a good thing just to keep editing your lyrics until they, they sing easily.
Rae Leigh: I agree. Yeah. And, and rewriting. What's your process post co-writing or just writing a song? Do you, do you rewrite, Do you give it space and come back to it? What, how do you, how do you approach that?
Rachel Koster: Uh, yeah, I would usually go back to it. Listen to it like over the next few weeks and if there's anything that's bugging me, ask the other person what do they think about changing that. Some songs, you know, if you're co-writing with someone, They can go on for quite a while. You know, you're still co-writing after you leave the room and you'll come back to them next time you're with that person as well.
If it's someone you write with more often. Um, it just depends, really. Yeah. Some songs you leave and you're pretty happy with them. I think it just depends on the song and how much time you had as well. If you did, you, you did a, um, really short session, you might need to come back to it and just revisit.
Rae Leigh: I love that. I love that. And it is, it's important to have a look. I probably didn't rewrite my songs at all before I started this podcast, and the more I've learned and the more I've started rewriting, I'm like, Why doesn't everyone rewrite? Like,
Rachel Koster: I know and you come back to stuff you've written and, and like years ago and you're like, Oh, that's terrible.
Rae Leigh: yeah, I could have rewritten that.
Rachel Koster: Exactly. Even just a word in there that just destroys it when you hear it and you're like, Oh, why'd I put that there?
Rae Leigh: How do you, deal with creative blocks, like during a song or, um, whether it's a crow or an individual, Right. Do you ever get to a point where it's like, I just have no idea what this next part needs to be.
Rachel Koster: Yep. When I have creative blocks, usually. My thing that I find helps me the most is to get someone's song who I love and just pull it to pieces and just work out how they do this and put it back together, you know? Um, try and write something using the same type of formula, if you can call it that. It's not really a formula, it's just what elements did they use?
Um, Or listen to someone completely different and just inspire yourself. I find that's a good way to get out of a block. If you're in a co-write though, I think sometimes just starting on a different song, if you really come to a, a standstill or just, um, letting that person who might be having more ideas than you and you're just still in the new and you just still not working well together, they might wanna take it away and work on it and or the other way around.
So I think sometimes you are, um, Being too cautious because you don't wanna upset the person you're riding with in certain circumstances. If it's not a really good flow between you, sometimes it's better to go, Well, we've co-written this part of it. Do you wanna finish it because they're really into it?
Or you. Do you want me to finish it? And sometimes that's a good way to go because then you're not fighting against each other. If it's been a bit bit like that, but most co-writes aren't like that. But you know, sometimes you just will come to a bit of a standstill and that's a good way around it, I think.
Rae Leigh: And that No, I love that. It, it is hard sometimes to, someone said, it's like you, you actually need a lot of time in your life to just sit and stare at the sky. , like,
Rachel Koster: you do? Do you do what I do, Ray? Um, I walk around if I'm writing a song and I just have to wander in the song and I just wander around, do the washing, and do this and do that, and this song is just going on in my head and ideas just ticking over. People will probably think you're just like off with the fairies, but you are actually working on your song.
Rae Leigh: Yep. The amount of
Rachel Koster: Go for a walk and you play it on your phone. And earphone. And
Rae Leigh: you're, you get inspired at the random, like you get inspired in the shower or like, I might get inspired while I'm driving and you know, I'm waiting at the lights and I'll put on record and I'll just start coat, like singing it out loud and coming up with different ideas.
And so you can hear in my voice notes, like the, the indicator or something from the car, like in the background
Rachel Koster: have lots of those.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Um, but I think it's good. Like actually literally I did that the other night when I was making muffin. I got inspired in the middle of making muffins for my kids' lunch boxes. And I forgot to put eggs in because I got so distracted by songwriting. But then I, I, Cause
Rachel Koster: love that.
Rae Leigh: I videoed the, the bit that I like the idea. And then I had a co-write with Rick Price yesterday, which was over Zoom. And so I was like, well, I've kind of got this idea that I kind of came up with. So I sent it to him and he is watching it and we wrote a great song, but he is like, I'm kind of getting hungry, watching you over and over and over.
Put these muffins into the muffin tray So like you
Rachel Koster: You have to post in one.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well, I don't think that'll work real, but yeah. You can't, you can't help when inspir inspiration hits you, but I do
Rachel Koster: No, it's always at inconvenient times, isn't it? In the shower when you're driving, when you're walking, when you're going to go to bed and it's like one in the morning
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Okay.
Rachel Koster: or you're about to go to sleep and you just have to get up and put the idea down.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I feel like I'm interviewing myself. It's quite funny. But yeah, it is. It's.
Rachel Koster: know.
Rae Leigh: My biggest
Rachel Koster: what I think when I listen to your podcast as
Rae Leigh: Oh, really? Oh,
Rachel Koster: I do.
Rae Leigh: just, I feel like you should just take over. I mean, this is your show now.
Rachel Koster: No. You do a good job there,
Rae Leigh: there. Oh, thank you. My biggest regrets is when I, I remember that I was inspired and I didn't write it down cuz I thought I would remember. I never remember . I never
Rachel Koster: don't do. Never, ever, ever.
Rae Leigh: you've got to, But then sometimes I record stuff and then I forgot that I've had, wasn't had that moment of inspiration. And then I go through my things. I was like, Oh, what's this? And I just, I'm like, I vaguely remember singing that or coming up with, I'm like, it's my voice. It must be me. But
Rachel Koster: And sometimes the ideas you come across are, you are like, Wow, that's amazing. I
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And then sometimes it's terrible.
Rachel Koster: that's terrible. Let's delete that one.
Rae Leigh: Oh yeah, tell me about like, cuz you've done so much, what would you say? I mean, you just having a song on Broadway would be pretty cool, but like, what's been your biggest like, oh my goodness, I cannot believe that's happened.
Rachel Koster: Um, well one time I had a phone call from, um, Vanessa Rossi's manager and he was asking if he could rewrite the lyrics to one of my songs that I'd sent, um, so she could demo it for her album. And to me that was pretty amazing. Cause I love Vanessa's voice and I love her music, so I was like, I've made it but
But she didn't end up recording it. But still to this day, I think it's a great moment,
Rae Leigh: Aww.
Rachel Koster: and I'd love to hear it. It. Being called Love Me, the song, but the song was originally called Someone Else to Blame. So completely different type of song. It would've been, and I'd love to just hear how it turned out.
But, um, I haven't had the chance to hear it. Um, I did ask them if they still had it. Oh, is it your song?
Rae Leigh: my, my last single was called Love Me. Yeah,
Rachel Koster: Oh wow. I'm gonna have to go listen now.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. That's a cute little music video on YouTube for it. Um, That's so
Rachel Koster: great. Yeah, so that was pretty exciting. But also working with Stewart I think was one of my most amazing things, cuz I just loved his music right from the get go and being able to work with him and have him play on my stuff and play for me live and things like that was just a beautiful honor and I'm so glad that I got to do it now that he's no longer with us and.
Have lots of great memories of conversations and just knowing him as a person. So I think sometimes it's those types of things that become the special things. You know, it's not always winning an award or, or having a hit or something like that. I think it's sometimes those other things that just mean a lot to you as a person.
Rae Leigh: life's all about the relationships we have,
Rachel Koster: Yep, for sure.
Rae Leigh: think, Anyway, my, my, my humble but correct opinion, um,
Rachel Koster: It's definitely a correct
Rae Leigh: Um, so tell me about, okay, so this is a question that you, you probably, obviously had me ask, but I like to get you to give advice. Essentially as if it was to a younger version of yourself or someone who was just starting up in the industry and they don't really know where to start or, or you know, something you wish you had have known sooner rather than later.
Do you have anything on top of, on top of the amazing advice you've already given
Rachel Koster: I would say don't be too scared because I was a bit scared to get up on stage and perform and to get started. So don't be scared would be one of the things. Another thing I was told once that I was too old when I was in my twenties and I'm like, Don't listen to people that say you're too old, because if you wanna be a songwriter, it doesn't matter if you're 99, you can still do it.
So yeah, that
Rae Leigh: I think maybe being a female, if you wanna be an artist, some people they, they have like a different opinion on like, men have a longer lifespan in the music industry than women because they still look sexy in their fifties, you know, , like they get
Rachel Koster: exactly.
Rae Leigh: fox sexy guy thing going on.
Rachel Koster: Exactly.
Rae Leigh: Uh, it's silly, isn't it? But,
Rachel Koster: It is silly. I know. But yeah, I think, yeah, I just think go for it. Don't wait for someone to give you permission to do the thing that you wanna do because you have permission if that's in your heart, to do it. And I love this quote that I've heard, and it's become my mantra in a way. And it says, Um, your purpose is not something you make up.
It's what you're made up of. And that's just like golden to me. No matter what you wanna do, that should be how you live. You know? So that would be my advice,
Rae Leigh: I love that quote. Thank you for passing that on. I'll definitely be using that one
Rachel Koster: Yeah, that's a good one.
Rae Leigh: sometimes you just hear, hear things and they just send shivers down your spine. Um, I love it.
Rachel Koster: That's definitely one of those.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, absolutely. All right, so now, um, I wanna know your inspirations and, and who you would like to work with. So if you could work with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be? And.
Rachel Koster: Okay. Well, I just wanted to say before you tell, tell you who I'd like to work with, that I found it very interesting that listening to all of the chats, um, not a lot of people.
Rae Leigh: chats,
Rachel Koster: It is a lot of chats that not a lot of people have said, All the Australian artists that, like I love Australian artists and they're a huge inspiration to me.
Like all of the Australian acts that are around from the last 60 years basically. So, But out of the people I'd like to work with Australian wise would be Paul Kelly. He's just like amazing. His storytelling, his Australian nurse and his warmth, something about his music is just beautiful and it's simple, but beautiful and I just think I could learn so much working with him.
I find storytelling. A bit trickier to write, so I think it'd be great to work with someone who's really good at that and someone like, um, Troy Casada, he's awesome at songwriting with a story as well. And Neil, Neil Murray is also a person I'd like to work with. There's something about his music too that's a bit magical.
And of course, Paul McCartney, If that
Rae Leigh: mean,
Rachel Koster: happen.
Rae Leigh: him. Yeah.
Rachel Koster: I mean, you don't even need to say anymore. . I love that he, after all the years that he's been doing music, when you see him talk about it, he's got that same joy as someone who's just starting out. And not a lot of artists can retain that as they go through their career.
I mean, like he's had a great successful career, so he probably doesn't have much to not be happy about, but. He still has that curiosity and he doesn't mind to experiment with things. And I think that that's a really inspiring space to be in if you were riding with someone as well.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. No, I think it's beautiful.
Rachel Koster: yeah. And if it was a, a pop person I'd like to work with, it'd be Leah Haywood and she, she co-wrote, um, that Katie Perry song, Never Really Over, which I think is one of the best pop songs I've ever heard.
So she's just so talented,
Rae Leigh: There you go. All right. Well hopefully someone, um, might hear it and connect with you and give you a buzz. They'd be like, Hey, heard you on Songwriter Truth, let's do a co-write. Um, That's right. That's my
Rachel Koster: Put that out in the universe.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, I, I would love people to find their dream co-writes through this program.
That'd be fantastic. And, and I, I've found like my number one hit song was because of people I talk to on here. So, you know, I love finding people to, to write with myself and, um,
Rachel Koster: That's awesome.
Rae Leigh: I think co-writing is, is such a great thing. Like you said, you get to celebrate with more people. Um, so yeah, I've always, I was always better at team sports than, no
Rachel Koster: who would you co-write with Ray?
Rae Leigh: Oh. I mean, if I could co-write with anyone in the world, dead or alive, I mean, I'm a massive fan of Amy Winehouse and I don't even know why cuz um, I don't necessarily relate to her as a person, but there's something in her spirit that. It does something to me, um, when I listen to her music and when I listen to her voice.
Um, I think it's just that tortured soul vibe. Um, so
Rachel Koster: definitely hasn't.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's so many Leonard Cohen, John
Rachel Koster: Oh yeah.
Rae Leigh: um,
Rachel Koster: Did you say John Lennon
Rae Leigh: John Mayer, but, uh, yeah, John, that'll be fine too.
Rachel Koster: Yes. John Mayer. Yep. awesome.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. So I, yeah. But it is one of those things that you just don't know. Don't know. Tell tell me about, like, what, what are you doing now?
You've got songwriting workshops and you, you are releasing new music or what's, what's, Yeah.
Rachel Koster: Um, I've got a song coming out next called Thunder Street and it's a bit Australian sounding. Um, I co-wrote it with a lady in Sydney who I've never met and we just did it remotely, and I get to meet her. This month sometime. Um, and so that'll be coming out probably in the new year. It's nearly ready to go.
It's got, um, Jeff Burston on it and Bruce Hayes playing on it. And then after that I've got some songs too with Rick Price. So, um, yeah, I've been working with him as well. So next year I'll have some material out that we've been working on over this year and into the start of the year. So that's exciting.
Rae Leigh: that's so awesome. I'm hoping to get to Nashville next year, um, in March to try and do some stuff, so, yeah. Have you, have you been to Nashville?
Rachel Koster: No, I haven't been there at all. No,
Rae Leigh: you should come with me girls Trip
Rachel Koster: It looks pretty magical.
Rae Leigh: Let's just hire a
Rachel Koster: tempt me.
Rae Leigh: Do you know what, That's how I ended up there in 2019. Someone sent a group text, not just me, but like to a group of us from a songwriting group, and they're like, Hey, I'm gonna Nashville.
Does anyone wanna come? And I, I like laughed because I talked and I taught my husband. I was like, Oh, haha. She's just invited like the entire group to go to Nashville. And my husband's. Why not ? I was like, What do you mean? Why
Rachel Koster: That's a good husband,
Rae Leigh: he is a good husband. Um, and it was,
Rachel Koster: keep him
Rae Leigh: Yeah, no, I will But yeah, it was 10 days and, um, I just said yes, and it was the best experience and it, that, that was what inspired me to get off my, but, and actually go and do this and,
Rachel Koster: Oh, that's amazing. How fantastic. I'm so glad that it did
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Rachel Koster: That's awesome.
Rae Leigh: Look, I was so shy. I was like, I hated singing in public . Yeah. Yeah. So I relate to the whole social anxiety thing, especially in original stuff. It's, it's hard. But yeah. Well, that, that's all my official questions. I think I've covered my stuff. Is there anything that you would like to say I'm handing the podcast over?
Rachel Koster: yeah, I would just like to say thank you to you for all the hard work you do with the podcast and for, you know, shining a light on people who write songs because you know, there's not that many opportunities for songwriters to have a little chat and say what they do, especially people who write for other people and aren't.
An artist. So it's a beautiful gift that you're giving to people and it's interesting for the public to listen to as well. So I, I find it inspiring, so thanks. I
Rae Leigh: Oh, thank you. Do you know I
Rachel Koster: now I don't, now I don't have to do one nightly
Rae Leigh: No uh, no. Now this is your podcast and you, you get to join the, the family. And, it is, it's the part of the family now, and it is, it's one of those things that I do agree. I think songwriters do need to have a voice, because they are artists and they're, like you said, if they're behind the scenes and they're not performing and recording and releasing their own music, they're a silent artist that no one would know who they are or what they do, and.
And that can mean as well, and everyone can know their songs, but it a also can mean that they can get taken advantage of. And you know, there's been a lot in the media lately about songwriters and you know, what, they're being paid from the online streaming side of things. And, and it's, it's pretty, , disgusting. I think if you
Rachel Koster: I know it has to change. I don't know what's gonna happen with this, but, I really hope somehow that that can shift and go back to some reasonable amount of money.
Rae Leigh: Well, you know, we, we are obviously, promoting and hoping for that. But it's, you know, yeah, it should be equal for, for all artists. I don't think any artist, whether you're a songwriter or an actor or a painter, should be valued at a different level of anyone else. Obviously there's experience and, and that sort of stuff that every, you know, you respect your elders and all that sort of stuff, but, As far as what you're doing, you're all valuable and beautiful in my eyes, so
Rachel Koster: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. All right, well thank you so much. Oh, , that was door slamming. Thank you so much for jumping on this with me and I really do hope we do get to catch up and write a song or have a coffee sometime and,
Rachel Koster: I'd love to do that.
Rae Leigh: I would love to do that too. So thank you so much and I will let you know when it's all ready to come out.
Rachel Koster: Thanks. Really, it's wonderful.
