#116 Ronen
2021 is gearing up to be an incredibly promising year for indie-pop artist, Ronen. His current single, “Wake Me Up” featured on Grey’s Anatomy - received overwhelming support, including a nod as Tunefind’s “Top TV Song of The Week” and impressive streaming numbers upon its debut. Struggling with ADHD as a kid and was encouraged to play the drums to help with getting his energy out leading to guitar and by the time he was 12 he was writing music and making his own way. Studied at Berklee College of music and after 2 years left collage and leaned right into the Nashville writing scene. Now producer writer and collaborating with people and adapted with what is working for him at the moment.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a songwriter tryst with Ronin. How are you?
Ronen: Good. How are you?
Rae Leigh: I start all podcasts by simply getting you the artist to tell me a little bit about who you are and where you come from.
Ronen: I'm Ronan and I'm from Chicago, Illinois. I was raised in a suburb right outside the city called Glenview. Out of high school decided to pursue music and I went to college in Boston at Berkeley college of music for two years. Which then led me to my first band.
And we moved down to Tennessee after two years of Berkeley and, Nashville. And after about a year and a half, being with them, decided to go off on my own and start my writing career. And through that period, it took about gosh, six to seven years to finally get some traction in the writing field.
I started by playing writers' rounds around the city and, doing all the usual things that writers do here in Nashville. And then finally, yeah, after about seven years, I cut through and, got my first few cuts just small cuts, but, the first ones, you know, and then yeah. Last year signed my first publishing deal with a demolition music publishing
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Ronen: arts and crafts music publishing in Canada.
Rae Leigh: Yep.
Ronen: And then in my first big sync with, Grey's anatomy, about a month ago now.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. I saw that. Congratulations.
Ronen: you. That felt pretty good, man. I'll tell ya
Rae Leigh: I bet.
Ronen: it paid it off, right?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. That's it, that's a pretty long journey. Like what 10? They do say it's a 12 year career. Don't they?
Ronen: Yeah. So in Nashville,
Rae Leigh: have heard that over there.
Ronen: 10, 10 year town. So, it's, it definitely rings true. I'll say that much because really your first. Little while, or just making the relationships and friendships. And that's why Nashville is such a good community. Is everyone kind of looks out for each other, and introduces you to friends of friends.
And, it took a while to build my way up into the right writing rooms and, you know, it all paid
off and it always does. So, yeah, it's very exciting.
Rae Leigh: I know when I was there, I've only been there once and it was literally only in Nashville for 10? days for like a writing retreat. And I said, Airbnb, it was amazing. I met so many people in 10 days. I cannot tell you, but every single person is like, oh, you've got to, you've got to come here.
You've got to be here. You have to be here. And like everyone said that.
Ronen: It's pretty amazing.
Rae Leigh: about you? Just nothing. It is incredible, but
Ronen: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Have to live there.
Ronen: Yeah. The living here, especially, at first it was tough for me because, you know, I lived in the north most of my life and there's just a different. I hate to use the word vibe, but there was, think about the city life in how fast paced everything is.
And then you come down to Nashville and it's so much slower paced and relaxed. And especially in the writing community,
you know, there are times when it's hurry up and wait Kind of situation, but everyone's just. Kind of it is, it's like a tight knit community of songwriters and it's still music city, you know what I mean? And I tried, I took a couple of trips out to LA and nothing bad against LA. It's just, I feel like it's so much, obviously bigger and so much more widespread. There's so many more people to get in touch with. And here, I just feel like everyone kind of knows each other.
Rae Leigh: It's kinda like a big country town,
Ronen: It literally is. Yeah. So everyone just kind of knows each other.
If you bring up a name, someone's bound to know it. So, you know, it's pretty wild. It's a great
Rae Leigh: very
Ronen: little spot.
Rae Leigh: I love it. And I do feel like I'm getting to talk to a lot of people through these podcasts, which is fantastic. And look if COVID wasn't around, I'd probably definitely be there, but it is what it is and I'm enjoying it over here.
Ronen: when's the last time you were here?
Rae Leigh: 2019
Ronen: 2019. Oh my gosh. That's pretty close to right at the beginning of COVID,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Well, it was like six months before, like I, yeah, it was,
Ronen: Did we know that
Rae Leigh: festival. Yeah.
Ronen: Had a pandemic was right around the corner.
Rae Leigh: no, right there, like I remember Broadway was just rammed with people and like, you know, you wouldn't say that now these days. So fish, I think Dolly pardons, 50th anniversary at the Oprah was on, like, it
was kind of like that time.
Ronen: Oh, yeah,
Rae Leigh: there, it was very busy.
There was apparently like a bunch of firemen from New York down for some convention.
So like,
Ronen: There's always someone down
here for some convention.
Rae Leigh: It was definitely a fun party atmosphere while I was there. But Yeah. I can't even imagine what COVID has done to a city that thrives on music and being out and you know, that type of atmosphere, like
Ronen: I will say. Yeah, at first,
I will say,
you know, there's definitely
the tough part is it's, you know, pretty. Political atmosphere as
In the United States. So everyone has their difference of opinion when it comes to when
COVID was real or not, which was interesting. So that was very interesting in, you know, my, my parents are in the medical
field, so obviously I stayed quarantined throughout the whole thing.
Yeah, right. My mom said
the same thing. And so me and my fiance stayed indoors and it was
just, you know, I will say Nashville was pretty active. Probably
around February ish of this year, January, February, like people were, there was the mandate was lifted in some areas. And now.
I will say, because a lot more people are getting their vaccines.
They just lifted the mandate and Nashville, the mask mandate. But yeah, but I'm still wearing one and a lot of the people I know are still wearing masks, but yeah, it's interesting. I don't think we're out of the woods yet, but I'm not a doctor, so,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: you know, I just
Rae Leigh: Fair enough. Just writing music
Ronen: Yeah, I agree.
I stay in, I, yeah, exactly. Like I stay inside anyways, so
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Ronen: producing and whatnot.
So, it's I will say last year, especially people you know, you had touring musicians and that's how people made their money and it really just right away shut down. And it was really sad for some people But it sounds like touring is starting back up again in the states, at least in you know, I won't be going to the concerts, but I'm sure other people will, so, yeah.
But
Rae Leigh: I guess it's just a slow process, isn't it
Ronen: yeah. And how has it there?
Rae Leigh: Honestly, we haven't had COVID which must sound really strange to someone like you guys over there,
but we have one case in the whole place shuts down for three days and then.
You know, they get on top of it and then we go back to normal.
We might wear masks for a couple of weeks after that, but then it goes away. So like, I just had an EAP launch and, you know, I had people that my geek and like their social distance and stuff, but It's. all still kind of has that old school sense of just people there. And no one was
wearing masks or anything at that event, because yeah, we haven't had anything here for over a month.
Ronen: Wow.
Rae Leigh: So, yeah, it, I feel a little bit like I'm part of a
few women in country groups and stuff, and I forget that sometimes I'll be like really excited about stuff, that's happening over here. And then I'll say, look, you know, you had such a great time at my gig last night in a group. and then I forget that there's so many people that still haven't performed in like almost she is.
And it's like, I'm so sorry. I forgot. And like, I just, yeah.
Taking it for granted.
Ronen: Like there's some people who still obviously are being super careful here and just still not touring. So it's,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: you know, especially the legacy acts that people want to see who are, you know, in older age that
can't go around touring right now.
Rae Leigh: The higher
Ronen: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. All right. Tell me about the beginning of music for you. Where did the love of music come from?
Ronen: love of music. Well, so the first album I was ever actually forced to listen to technically was my mom put on a Kenny. Log-ins a long, it's a Messina album.
And then it moved too
quickly to the Kenny Loggins. How's it, Pooh corner children's album,
which I listened to every single night while I was falling asleep on this little green JVC boombox when I was a kid.
And yeah, it was, I still remember all the moments of listening to it. And then through there, that was up until I was about four or five. And then when I turned six, I got my first drum set.
Cause I wanted to be a drummer and
Rae Leigh: like a little kitty one or they get you a
Ronen: oh no, it was legit. And my parents really regret that too. Cause I was slamming away at the, in the basement at all hours.
Yeah, well originally they got it for me cause I had terrible hyperactivity when I was a kid. I had bad ADHD. I still do, but figured out how to control it a little bit better. And so they wanted me to get some of my energy out. And I played the drums up until I was about, I'd say.
10 or 10 or 11. Then my brother got a guitar, which of course being a sibling and the youngest, I was like, Daniel got a guitar. Why can't I get a guitar? So that led exactly right. And then it led to my parents finally buying me my first little like fender
stret. Well, wasn't really offender, but version of it was a lot less.
Yeah, it was very cheap. Knockoff wasn't even a Squire. And it was started playing that around the clock. And by the time I was 12, you know, I didn't really know what I was doing, but apparently I was writing music. I didn't know that at the time I was just kind of, it's hard to explain now, but you know, I would write words on a piece of paper and strum the guitar, and I wasn't listening to as much music at the time because I was a full-time hockey player.
So, yeah, he really didn't have much time for anything else. At that age. So, yeah, I started playing guitar and my parents got me, my first teacher when I turned 13. So I started doing, you know, probably like once every couple of weeks guitar lessons. And my teacher turned out to be very classically trained musician who just kinda.
Made me do all the exercises all the time and practice constantly. Which was cool. Yeah, it was cool. But you know, when you're a kid, you're just kinda like, I kind of want to just play like the newest fallout boy song and
Rae Leigh: right.
Ronen: the newest green day song. But, you know, it led to basically me wanting to pursue music in the long run.
So I took music theory throughout high school which was probably the best decision I ever made. And went through two years of music theory and then on a whim just wanted to see if I could do it applied to Berkeley college of music and had really no intention of like, Going, and then when I got accepted, I was like, okay, like, that sounds cool.
Music for college. That sounds nice. Wasn't good at anything else. So that worked out perfect.
Rae Leigh: It was two years. Is that how long the course goes for, or did you not finish?
Ronen: so I did not finish. I was one of the that I like to call the Berkeley four, which is. Instead of four years of college, you do two years. But yeah, a lot of people leave after, you know, about two years, not because of anything other than the fact that they just kind of want to get started
on the music career, you know?
So yeah, I got antsy and I just wanted to, I just wanted to leave and I loved the school. It was, you learn a lot But as you probably know, and a lot of people know it when I was going, it was more of a jazz based school jazz and classical. And I was more in the pop oriented field. So, About my last,
Rae Leigh: would have been quite boring.
Ronen: it was don't get me wrong.Love jazz, but I don't love jazz. So,
Rae Leigh: your genre. Yeah. It would
Ronen: Yeah, exactly. Especially to play. Most of our ensembles were jazz based and I'm gonna be honest. Like I never could figure out how to play jazz music. Like I just never, I tried, I like. Copied what the books told me to do on guitar. And I still just didn't feel it.
I was just like, I just don't. Yeah, like listening to it. Yes. Love it. But playing it, I just, I didn't have the feel for it. So,
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: you know, I moved out here and into Nashville and just kind of found the nearest producer songwriter and latched on and just kind of learn from them. Which was pretty cool,
Rae Leigh: Spent seven years sort of in Nashville. We working at the same time while you were just trying to do your like
Ronen: oh gosh.
Rae Leigh: the band. Cause you said you did the band for a year and a half. Like, what was that transition like going from a band to then going like, all right. Actually I just want to be a songwriter.
Ronen: So in all honesty, I was actually. Pretty heavy drinker up in during that time. And that year and a half I, my first year and a half in Nashville, I was with a band and I sobered up and I honestly just needed a fresh start away from the band. And, you know, we didn't break up on any bad terms whatsoever.
It was just, I needed. To move out and get a fresh start. And I moved out on my own to kind of pursue my own thing and that kind of you know, I've been sober now for six, seven years almost. Thank you. And, It was just kind of like a life choice to move out on my own. Cause I felt like if I kept going back, I would keep. I would relapse or something Yeah, it was,
Rae Leigh: to do.
Ronen: yeah, it really was, you know, I had to leave my good friends behind kind of thing. Not because they did anything wrong or anything like that. It was just one of those decisions me over, you know, music and I chose me and then it led to more opportunities in music
actually. So it was a. Yeah, but we, we played shows around Nashville for a little while and I was the lead singer and guitarist and it was a lot of fun. It's just, you know, I like the solo life a little bit better.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Ronen: Yeah, for sure.
Rae Leigh: done both as well. And there are definitely perks, but also complications that comes with a band.
Ronen: oh, absolutely. Think that the hardest part is having to keep track of not only yourself, but for other people. So, and I have a hard enough time keeping track of myself.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
I can relate to that. Absolutely. So, so how is it going in the solar life? Cause you've done some deals and you're doing your own production. You're quite a talented producer. Is that something that you taught yourself or how did that,
Ronen: Yeah, so, production it's really funny. I never thought I'd be doing the production part. You know, there's kind of a turning point in everyone's career where. Maybe not everyone's, but at least in mine where I stopped doing my artistry for, I'd say a good two years because it wasn't working.
And I had started getting a lot of new sessions in songwriting and whatnot, and started producing people's stuff as demos originally. But then that later turned into final productions or what have you. And.
Honestly, I didn't think I was very good at it. And then people were like, yeah, I'd love to release just this version, your master, this version, or mix this version and I'd be like, oh, okay.
Maybe I'm kinda good at this part. So that kind of led to me just sticking to what was working at the time. And I feel like that's something everyone in the career kind of has to decide. And I told myself, you know, this is working now. Doesn't mean that the artistry part won't work later.
So, I just stuck to production for the last, probably three years now. And I taught myself all the ins and outs and Again, you know, sat in the room with people who were much better than me at it and just kind of learn from them. And you know, that's the best part about Nashville too, is, you know, a lot of people don't have an ego here, so it's more teamwork than anything else, so,
Rae Leigh: I absolutely love that was probably the biggest thing that inspired me because I don't come from a place that has that attitude at all. It's all very much me and myself and I did it all by myself
Ronen: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Pat myself on the back, when I win an award and have a after party by myself with champagne and a penthouse, like it's just, it's, It didn't sound fun to me. And and I think that was the reason. Like, I was a bedroom warrior. I wrote songs and play guitar and piano on my own in my bedroom for 30 years and never. Never had the desire to share that with anyone. Like it was just for me, but at the same time, I was just the idea of doing it all myself. It was like, well, what's the point? And like, I've always been a team player even in like work and everything else. It's like if it was a team that made me work really hard, but if it was just for me as no incentive
Ronen: Oh, absolutely. And
Rae Leigh: yeah.
Ronen: you know, cause again, that's why Nashville. I, a lot of those producers never had to say yes to me being in the room. you know, and a lot of producers will say, you know, they have tricks and secrets in here. No one ever said no to me learning their tricks and secrets.
And I'm the same way. If someone wants to learn, you know, I'll help them learn. Cause
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: you're, it's better to yeah. Have people in your corner than other people against you because it leads to more relationships, honestly, and more opportunities because. If they get something big, they might ask you to produce on it or help them with it.
And you know, it's such a team effort down here
and I just, why I
love it. Yeah. I
Rae Leigh: I am.
I was so inspired by that where I realized I didn't have to do it all on my
own, that when I came back, that was it, everything changed. The
penny dropped and I started, I actually started running a music business and that's when I really started releasing
music. But it is, it's hard
bringing that into a different culture, but at the same time, I've
seen it work so well over there.
And I'm
like, do you know what if we just, if you just live by example,
And you do that. And like when we lift each other up. That's exactly what we do
We lift each other up. And I think when you, when we bring each other down by being competitive, that's exactly.
what we do. We bring
each other down.
And so why even bother? So, yeah, that's and that's kind of why I do this, you know, it's like
let's connect and build relationships and lift each other up.
Ronen: Plus, it's no fun. You know,
when everybody's, it's no fun, dude. If like I'm constantly trying to compare myself to someone else's work or like, why didn't I get this cut? Or it's just so much easier to be happy for
people like.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: It's so draining to get jealous. And I did
that for a while where I was, you know, the typical, why isn't my stuff working?
Why is this guy getting this? That it's like, it was so mentally draining that it's just, it's an, a gap.
It
was the
Rae Leigh: yeah. It doesn't,
Ronen: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: productive.
Yeah.
Ronen: not at
all.
Rae Leigh: I want to be successful. And when that success comes, I want to have like 50 people around me that are all a
part of that success in some way.
Ronen: Absolutely. I love
Rae Leigh: want to be in the penthouse
with like 20 bottles of champagne and we're all.
just having fun.
Like that's it have a party? I don't
Ronen: I love
Rae Leigh: my own at
all.
Ronen: That's the game, right? Like that's the funnest part is having the people who helped you make it happen around you.
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Ronen: Again, it would be boring to be alone in that penthouse, drinking champagne by
yourself.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
I
don't have to be successful to do that. I can do that now.
Ronen: Absolutely.
Rae Leigh: It's it is. I think it's beautiful when people work together and collaborate and we need to like, especially these days, there's just no way that anyone could do it all on their own. You know, you need to be able to do the production.
You need to be a really good writer and then you need to be a really good performer and a singer and you know, and PR agent
and publishing, and then
record, you know,
Ronen: you're preaching, you know, it's like, yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, most of the sessions I'm in now I'm writing, but I'm also the producer in the session building the track and whatnot. And we write as we produce because the writers can't do it as well, or they just don't want to, or, you know, what have you, but, you know, without the lyricist, the rhythm section, whatever the producer.
The melody guy is just, you know, you bring it all together and it always comes out better than if he had just written it by yourself.
Rae Leigh: it's so magical. Isn't it. Now I love it. When let's talk about your music a little bit more in your song writing process. So even though it's collaborative, obviously, but when you're thinking about yourself as an artist and the music that you want to get out there, is there like a core message or feeling that really motivates you?
Because I know some people like to everyone likes, loves songs, or some people are more sad and tragic. D have you worked out who you are and what your feel is.
Ronen: I grew up listening to a lot of cat Stevens and I'll say Neil young Kenny Loggins, you know, storytelling, songwriters, and just emotional songwriters. And sometimes their lyrics are a little bit harder to comprehend, but they do have meaning That's kind of the style. I love personally, the Bob Dylan
poetic kind of lyric.
And basically what I
try to do is capture a moment, right? Like
That's the style I love sometimes I'll turn on a TV show,
A very dramatic TV show in the background and just keep the sound off
and just kind of capture the tension in that room.
Or you know, just pick a scene in my own life and try to capture the tension in that moment or the happiness in that moment.
That's kind of the goal for each song I write is to try to get it placed in a film or in a television series where it would just work. Perfect. And that's not saying that I only do sync music, but you know, it's just so fun to write because. There's endless possibilities for lyric and melody, and you never know what's what supervisors are going to love.
That's the best part. You know, you could write something where you're like, wow, this was crap. And then you find out it gets placed somewhere, you know, and they love it. So I, yeah, I really think of myself as more of, you know, a scene. Capturing musician or writer lyricist.
I just find it very fun,
Rae Leigh: yeah,
Ronen: you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Like just capturing, like
that's what life is made up of, you know, those moments
Ronen: Little moments.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And sometimes we are so focused on the future and what we're going to do next that we can miss those moments. And yet those moments.
is what make life beautiful.
Ronen: I'm definitely guilty of
that.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
I think art and music in this case is a beautiful way to capture those moments and help people to slow down and see them and actually focus on the things that.
we take for granted.
So that's beautiful. I love
Ronen: Great. Yeah, you do. Do you write mostly country suffer? Just all around everything.
Rae Leigh: Well, I actually, when I was in Nashville, I have, I met with a publishing company. I have a feeling, it was someone from demolition actually. But anyway, and. I was playing some of my songs. We went through the lyrics and stuff and she turned around to me and she goes, you're not country you'll pop. Right.
Like after the third song.
And I was like, well, I never said I was country. And I don't really have a very country voice. People have described me more as a Beyonce which, you know, coming from people who are looking for country can be a bit of an insult. But I'm quite happy to sound like Beyonce.
That's cool. But
Yeah, my, my music, like I said, I was a bedroom warrior. So like it's, always been something that I wrote,
For me. And it's always, usually been very emotive and I love having
metaphors, you know,
in my music and finding things that people can picture as a way of understanding
their emotions because emotions are.
Somewhat elusive. I think art is a beautiful way to encapture those emotions. That again, we sometimes don't actually take the time to look at properly in
Ronen: absolutely.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. So what about co-writing? Cause I'm obviously that's a big thing in Nashville and. I think it's amazing. Like, and this is where tourists come in is I think when you write a song with someone, it is a bit like having a trust with someone because you can, it can be a great experience.
It can be a bad experience with the end of the day. You get a little song baby out of it. Yeah. So
what's it like for you? What's your process in co-writing?
Ronen: Honestly it's funny because I always think of the first hour of most, either first sessions or second, whatever it may be as a therapy session between musicians. Because typically you, there have been sessions in which we. Start the song about four hours in, because we're
all talking about just random stuff.
And honestly it just captures so many ideas. So you get lost. You're like, oh gosh, what? I don't even know what to write about now.
But I will say, yeah most sessions are like a
therapy session. Everybody's just kind of. Putting their feelings on the
table and just talking about their week, their month, their year, what they've gone
through.
And most of the time everybody in the room can relate. The hardest thing I feel
like for writers is having so many emotions that they can't put them on paper. So that's why it's always great to have other people in the room to write those songs. Because they can, you know, put words to what you're trying to say, or actually comprehend what you're trying to say.
Cause internalizing your own emotions and trying to put it on paper is so hard sometimes because you have so many ideas rushing through your head. But my process essentially is, you know, I start sometimes I'll start with the track. Sometimes I'll start with a guitar riff or whatnot. And sometimes the artist or the other writer will come in with, you know, a full melody or progression and be like, listen, this is what I'm thinking.
And we'll just change it around, you know? It's really, open-ended it never, each session is always different with pop stuff. Obviously, usually it starts with the track. With country, it starts with typically a guitar or piano or just a great lyric idea.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: But it's always different for me.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: depending
Rae Leigh: like with country, it would be, it's just a story
Ronen: yeah.
Rae Leigh: And that's where I relate to country music. Cause it's that story. But
Ronen: I agree
Rae Leigh: it's different for everyone. And I think it's good to go into every session with like an mind that
it's going to be something different.
Ronen: yeah,
a hundred percent. I think too, like, you know, every person you write with is going to have a completely different style and sometimes, you know, I've have had sessions where, you know, I don't get back with the person. It doesn't mean that they're not a good writer. It just means our creative systems.
Didn't, you know, Vibe as well.
And that's not always a bad thing. It's just, everybody's made up of different wiring, you know?
So Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. It's like chemistry is like, you're not going to be attracted to everyone,
but it doesn't mean, You can't be friends. I have like some of the best friends that we've gone to right. in a room together. And we've just. It's not coming out, but at the same time, we'll bounce ideas off each other and give each other options.
And then kind of co-write in that form,
but it's not at the same time. It's more like, Hey, can you have a
listen to this? Let me know what you think. And they might have some ideas they might not. But yeah.
I think every everything's different.
Ronen: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: yeah.
And is that's okay as well. Like, I remember I did a song writing session with a guy in Nashville actually, and it was supposed to be a pro, right?
Like we were there, I was there with someone else and he was supposed to be this professional songwriter and he was, but he was, his attitude was horrible. Like, you know, he made us feel horrible and we both left going like, oh, what was that? Like, we finished the song, but what,
That wasn't a nice experience, you know, like,
Ronen: absolutely happens. I've been in rooms like that, for sure. Where. You know, that's where the ego thing comes in. If somebody has an ego, when they come in and because they've had a number one or, you know, they've had great success. It's, funny because you know, times change pretty quick in the music industry.
So you could have a hit today and definitely not have a hit tomorrow.
Rae Leigh: yeah.Right.
Ronen: that's again, why you gotta keep your friends close,
Rae Leigh: Yeah, but you know? what, like, even though he was a horrible session a few weeks, maybe even a month later, I listened to the song. I'm like, it's actually a pretty good song.
If I want to stay
Ronen: that's really funny.
Rae Leigh: even then. The idea of producing that song would always take me back to that moment of feeling horrible in the session.
And then that turns me off, not wanting to ever produce it. And like now I'm a recording artist, artists. Like I wasn't at the time, but now I am and I'm picking songs and like, actually it's a really good song and maybe one day I'll do it. But if it's ever a choice between that song and another good song, I'd probably always take the other because of that experience of feeling yuck
Ronen: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Isn't that sad.
Ronen: funny because I'll come back to some, just like you I'll come back to some songs a lot later on and just be like, oh, actually that's not bad.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Ronen: love that.
Rae Leigh: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good thing to be able to go back to songs. Like I always have like NRA energy with a new song that I've just done. Like every, you know, every song that you've just done is like the greatest hit ever. And sometimes it can take a bit of distance to kind of have some Like to realize where it really is, whether it needs rewriting and things like that.
But I dunno, I love it. That feeling when you go back to a song or you've been singing a song for like
five years and you still love it, it's like, that's the gold for me.
Ronen: yeah, that's the winner.
Rae Leigh: That's the winner. Yeah. If you still love it. All right. So. What's the best advice. And this might be a hard one that you've ever been given because you've been doing it for quite a long time.
What do you think was a real aha moment for you?
Ronen: Honestly that we talked about it a little bit before and I'd have to say the best advice I ever got was not to compare myself to anyone else. Because everyone has their own lane in the sense of there's. Yeah. There's millions of us out there. Millions of songwriters, whatever. But you know, if I sit here and compare myself to the guy who's crazy successful and whatnot, like we talked about before, it's a waste of energy.
So the best advice I ever got was just to focus on my own music. And because if you're sitting there comparing yourself all the time, you're just not going to write stuff. That's you're going to want to write whatever's going on in the world or whatever the newest pop hit was or whatever the kid that blew up overnight is writing. And that's not your style.
So.
Rae Leigh: that is such a thing that like, even when I was in Nashville, I heard it, I hear it all the time. It's like, oh, we've got to do this because this is what everyone's doing in the top 10 at the moment.
Ronen: Absolutely.
Rae Leigh: It's a big thing. Isn't it? I don't, I didn't really understand it. Yeah.
Ronen: I will say the only time that works and the only time I feel like it's necessary is when you are writing for the billboard chart. Right? So like, if you're writing for the. Next pop star. Who's trying to get into the scene right now. You're going to sit down and do some grungy kind of pop rock nineties, you know, fall out boyish guitars and that kind of vibe.
Cause that's the thing that's going on right now. But if you're really trying to make your way as an artist, you know, you can't be copying what everyone else is trying to do. It's just not. You know, cause they'll just compare you to the person who's much more famous than you are and you'll never break through.
Rae Leigh: much. That's so true. All right. And what about advice that you would give to someone who's just starting out? They could be in high school or maybe they're having a career change, but what would you say to someone outside of, obviously don't, compare yourself? Where should they start?
What's the best first thing you should be doing when you're starting off as a songwriter?
Ronen: the first thing you should be doing is something I should have done a lot more, which is read a lot of poetry, read a lot of fiction, read a lot of things that will stimulate your imagination because I looking back wish that I had read a lot more and I read now, you know, but I wish I had read a lot more and.
Listen to music just in, not the newest music that's out there, listen to everything, every style, everything from the past,
because if you're listening to the radio, you'll hear influences of all those styles of music now. It's, you know, constantly reusing ideas from the past. those would be my two and I guess.
The biggest one is never feel like, never think, you know, everything cause you don't, you'll never know everything. You should always be learning from other people. I can't tell you how much that has helped me. I just, you know, if you start thinking, you know, everything soon enough you'll know everything that you know, and then there'll be someone who knows a lot more because they're learning from other people.
So.
Just keep learning.
Rae Leigh: Oh, it's such a. I think it's a growing up thing that epiphanies that like, I think because of the way school is, I don't know what it's like. It's probably very simple, like schooling. It's like, you get to an end of a year and if you get an a, that means, you know, everything right. And many, And then you go into the next level and you have to learn everything in that level.
And like, so I feel like. People must think
that by the time you finished your 12 or whatever, it is, like your last year of high school or university, even it's like, yeah. You know, like that's the top level of education. And so that means, you know, everything, there's nothing else to learn.
Ronen: exactly.
Rae Leigh: And then it takes like a few years of real life, I think, to realize that doesn't go away.
Ronen: Yeah
Rae Leigh: we're always learning.
Ronen: yeah. You never know everything. And plus with music, things are constantly changing or new things are coming out in the sense of, you know, new programs or whatnot, and you can always be learning. And there's always that one thing you didn't do in your last production that could change the whole next one for you, you know?
So it's
Rae Leigh: Just get better.
Ronen: Yeah, it's such an important thing. And the one thing too, that will help a lot with new writers is to just not stop writing.
If you get stuck, if you have writer's block, finish it, you know, you can always come back to it, but just finish the song. You know, I wish I finished.
Rae Leigh: Do you, like getting feedback on your songs once they're done
Ronen: I love it. I really do, because it helps me notice
things that I would've never thought of. I will say, and there have been times as a producer where sometimes it sucks because, you know, I'm not only having to fix a lyric or a melody, but I have to go in and cut stuff out and you know, but at the end of the day, it's totally worth it.
I think that's the best part about having a publisher too is not only them pitching your stuff, but you know, they're constantly telling me what can make something better or what I should be focusing on. And it's honestly like having coaches. It's pretty awesome. yeah.
Rae Leigh: Ah, I'm still aiming towards that. That's definitely a goal of mine. I think it's I think it's really important. And I have noticed that some people are not very good with feedback, but I feel like if you want to get better and like, you can't really get better with that feedback. And I have people like.
Sometimes I say, well, why do you want feedback on this stuff? Because you've already released it. And it's like, because I'm going to do more. Like I'm not going to stop. I'm going to, I'm going to keep releasing music. And if I want it to get better, I need feedback. Proper feedback.
Ronen: I feel like a lot of times with feedback, a lot of people think it's always negative
that they're being insulted or that someone doesn't like it, but sometimes it's just feedback.
Like you could have done this and yeah. And it doesn't mean that it would have been better or worse,
but you know, it
Rae Leigh: you can take it or leave it.
Ronen: yeah. Basically.
Rae Leigh: don't have to like take on everything. Everyone says, because everyone has a different opinion,
right? Like. Not everyone's going to like your song. You just need some people, but even some people, it can be enough. Like if it's just even a small percentage of the planet that like your
song, that's still probably enough to keep going.
Ronen: Absolutely a hundred
Rae Leigh: if everyone hates it. maybe it's,
Ronen: it's time to
Rae Leigh: to that
Ronen: it.
Rae Leigh: right thing. Like, you know, you don't have to have everyone, but you do need some people to like
Ronen: A hundred
Rae Leigh: For it.
to be A viable business that is anyway. And there's usually always a place for everyone. It's just about finding your place.
But yeah. All right. Last question for you. And this is more to do with your influences. If you could co-write with anyone in the world living or dead, who would it be?
Why.
Ronen: Oh my gosh. For real, that's such a hard question. Oh my gosh. Okay.
Just one person
Rae Leigh: if you can narrow it down to one, or you can do a co-write with maybe two
Ronen: Okay. Honestly I'd say Kenny Loggins, absolutely. A hundred percent. He is the reason I started playing music. So I would love to sit in a room and we'll probably just chat for like four to five hours and not write anything, but I would. That would be my dream. Yeah,
Rae Leigh: And then you'd write the song about sitting with the guy that inspired you.
Ronen: Exactly. Now you have to answer it. What would be your choice?
Rae Leigh: It changes all the time. But Leonard, Cohen's probably one. of my favorite
Ronen: Yeah, that's a good one. Yep.
Rae Leigh: of all time. But I'm a bit of a riding horse I'll ride with it. Everyone's,
Ronen: I get around
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Hi, get around. I've pretty much would write with anyone. So, yeah, but like, obviously there's so many people that are very talented out there and you never know whether there's going to be chemistry or not.
So it's, for me, it's just about just trying it at least once and see what happens.
Yeah. All right. Tell me what you're doing as of this year. Where can people like I'm going to put all your links and stuff to your music and your social so people can get in contact and follow you and support you.
But what are your goals? like unit do shows he's going to produce for music. it, will sink.
Ronen: honestly, just producing more music. I'm planning on releasing a couple of EPS this year and next
Rae Leigh: Nice.
Ronen: Just three song ups and mostly aimed towards film and television. And I, haven't done releases in since probably two years ago or EPS and I'm really excited to just release new music and it'll probably be out probably end of summer the first one. So just keep an eye out for That And Yeah, Spotify, the normal apple music, wherever you can find me on everything.
Rae Leigh: I'm going to pull those links in there. So it'll be on the website and on the description of this podcast. And yeah, we'll just stay in touch and keep following the dream. But congratulations on all the success you already having. And you've obviously worked really hard for it, and I'm a big believer in divine timing and it's, I think it's the time for Ronan.
Ronen: Oh, thank you so much. That was so sweet. I love that.
Rae Leigh: All right. Thank you so much.
