#117 Penrose
From Tamworth, the country music capital to living in Sydney as a singer-songwriter. Penrose is doing what she loves and making music that she absolutely loves. Her get away from school and the hard life of adolescence she would run to music and her horses. Wanting to go to the Olympics but also finding passion in performing Penrose has ambition and love for her music and hopes to inspire others through what she is releasing. She shares some wisdom from some hard lessons she has learned in the music industry about the importance of having people you can trust around you.
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Transcript
Rae Leigh: Welcome to a, Songwriter Tryst with Penrose.
Penrose: I'm good. Thank you. How are you?
Rae Leigh: Good. I got sent your information and your song, and I love it. So tell me, who are you and where do you come from?
Penrose: To me I've been singing and songwriting since I was probably 10, but to the rest of the world, I've only had music app for a month. So I'm still a new artist. Yeah. Yeah. It's been pretty crazy, but yeah, my name's, my name is Penrose and I grew up in little old Tamworth or.
Technically more Creek, so country music, capital, but now living in Sydney as a songwriter.
Rae Leigh: That's crazy. How does someone living in Tamworth and doing country music to being a pop rocks?
Penrose: That's a really good question. I don't know either, to be honest, I think I've always been really obsessed with music and songwriting. And I think, there was a big music scene in Tamworth. Obviously majority was country, but I think that was a lot of different flares that kind of grew through that as well.
And I think in my generation, we've really drawn to a whole bunch of different genres. And I think at the time, I was that little girl that had the cowgirl hat on and then I just wanted to take it off. I was yeah.
That's kinda, it's when you start exploring the world, you find new things that, you really liked, but then sometimes you go actually, no, I really like what I had.
So I think through a journey of discovery and, just being open to different things, I've found something that I've really loving.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, that's awesome. So I'm curious. Cause I was also a bedroom warrior and I sang songs and played music for my entire life. Since I was six, until later in life. And I didn't share with anyone. What was the journey for you? What was the ticker that kind of changed
Penrose: If I'm from my earliest memory, I think I was told to. Get down off the kitchen bench. Cause I was blaring the national Anthem for the 2000 Olympics while it was on the TV. And I think that at the time was like a bit of, Aw, that's so cute. And then I think when I was in year five, I come home from school.
My granny picked me up. And I won this trophy in the talent quest and she was like, what did you do? And I was like, I sang she's you can sing like no one had a clue. Cause I was a very, like a private little kid. If you meet me now, you'll just think, no, you're crazy. My mom just was like, I guess she was like, oh, Steph's actually got skills in some way. Let's put her in a talent quest and there was this thing at the time in Tamworth called Teton. And there was a F. It was, I think it was like a competition that ran years ago in like 2010. And it was the only one ever happened. And I entered in at singing this Delta Goodrem song on my horse calling.
It was called together. We are one, which I'm pretty certain was the same song. I was singing out the, like at the Olympics that. I was watching Delta do at the Sydney one, which is just a bit ironic now thinking about it. And instead of. Having a first, second, third place they gave me first and second and wanted to combine the winnings of a a, it was a trip down to Sydney to work with Heath Harris, who was this amazing horse guru that?
trains horses for movies like racing stripes and like all those really cool movies.
And then also to perform at the opening concert of country music. So I was like 11 at the time. And I was like, whoa, this is crazy. Like not really knowing the seniority of it. But it ended up being the closing concert because having me Right. into the pocket of nighttime on a horse with no helmet and.
Probably potentially intoxicated people was probably an ONH Jeunesse issue. So Yeah. they changed it. And I sang a Diana Corcoran song called thank you for cheating on me, which I just, I shake my head. I was like, did I even know what that meant? But I was just owning it because I just felt it,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.
Penrose: So that was the start.
And then I went back to my bedroom for years, I think. Oh yeah, like later on, I got asked to do the PBR and I did the PBR for six years before. Casey Barnes took that over. So that was really cool. And went down.
Rae Leigh: going, gonna, I'm going to be what's
Penrose: so the professional bull riding.
Rae Leigh: Okay. I've never even heard of that. See I'm I don't know what I'm going. What's going on professional bull rider. Like they do a show for that, or
Penrose: Yeah. So it's like a, it's like a big event that happens usually out of the U S and does a big tour in Australia. And the one where I did it at was I was just like, I didn't really know what it was either. I was like, oh yeah, I've been to a rodeo before Yeah.
And then I'd turn up. And there's like at least 6,000 people there.
And I was like, oh, Jesus.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
Penrose: I think the first time I really remembered hearing that, that applause after I just finished and I just freaked out and just going, Whoa. now I get why people do this.
Rae Leigh: Oh, that's nice. You got, so you got the bug.
Penrose: Yeah. I got the bug.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And that is a real rush. When you do that,
Penrose: Yeah. And I think like over the years, just being really exposed to that and the support it's and from what people have told me if you're going to do this, do it right and do it, how you want to do it. And I think I've just spent a long time just cause I feel like every, everyone I run into, I know them already.
And then, but it's People that are new to me. They're like, oh, who are you And I was like, no buddy yet.
Rae Leigh: you've been exposed and you've been like, you grew up around Tamworth. So you would have been exposed to a lot of things with people and. What's changed now that you're actually like in the last month or how long have you been working on these releases that you've released
Penrose: oh gosh, like over a year, I have like I wrote my new single or debut single bodies talk about three years ago now?
And I was working with a guy called Dean Ray at the time. And cause I, I wrote the song in his house and I showed it to him. He was like, Man. That's huge. And then I did a demo with him, but then I, when I met Toby, I met him as a favor.
Rae Leigh: Okay.
Penrose: I don't work with anybody, man. That's what he said. And then he met me. He was like, now she's cool. Let's work together. And I
Rae Leigh: Nice.
Penrose: So I've pretty much created a whole catalog with him. Just really. Really amazing. Really inspiring to me. I think music anyway, I'm really proud of it.
And I think that's the biggest thing that I've learned through that whole journey is if you're going to be investing into something like music, cause it's not cheap. It really isn't do what you really love Don't try and, fit into a box that. Is there, or just, if it's if it's gonna work, it's gonna work for you being authentic at the end of the day.
And if I'm making something, I don't, I resent it.
Rae Leigh: I love that. And I'm one of those people that have never fit into a box B. So I really liked that story because I'm a big believer that people need to make your own box,
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Take tailor, make it.
Penrose: My my family really wanted to put me in that country box for a while. Cause it was like, Oh, are you from Tamworth? You're you live on a farm, you ride horses. We like Keith urban. So you should too was it's it's not that I don't, it's not that I
Rae Leigh: It's case by case also. Yeah,
Penrose: love so many country artists. I just didn't think that. As I like to think as if art is the way we decorate space music is how we decorate time.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And we already have a case. We don't need another one, w we need it, we need a penny, we need a Penrose. That's what we need. I'm a big believer that we need everyone to be exactly who they are. We don't need double ups of anyone. That's awesome. I'm really glad I'm the opposite.
I was not brought up her own country music at all, and I randomly found it in my later years in life. And it was. I guess for a person who doesn't feel like she ever fits in. I felt at home at a retreat in Tamworth at one of my lowest points in life. And I was like, do you know what I, it has my respect, even though I have no idea what country music is.
And everyone tells me, I sound like Beyonce. And everyone keeps on telling me I don't sound country, but I don't care. Yeah. It's it doesn't matter. Does it.
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: What are your goals? What is your absolute dream for your music moving forward now that you're releasing stuff?
Penrose: damn. Don't then ask me that if my manager ever listens to this, he's oh, here we go. But I think like I've been trying to put myself into the mindset cause it's never going to really happen overnight for you, but I just have all these really little goals at the moment that I'm just trying to get through and achieve those first.
But at the end of the day, I'm always going to have these big goals, like big. Hairy audacious ones. But
Rae Leigh: got a dream. Trust me. I'm
Penrose: yeah, but at the end of the day, I've got to make sure that it's if I don't get there, I can't be disappointed or less proud of myself for getting as far as I could. But I think some way along the way, I think I just want to be, I want to be recognized as a songwriter mainly and Yeah.
Oh, God, this is such a hard question,
Rae Leigh: Tell me why, like what would you like your music to do people know your music and they get to know you as an artist. What does your, as an artist leave in the world? Do you think, and obviously that's a big question, but is there a reason or thing that music has done for you that you want to
Penrose: yeah. It's a huge question. And I think like I could say, oh yeah. I'd love to play this arena and win a Grammy, which is like all things that I love to do, but I know this is going to be a bit weird, but I really want to perform at Victoria secret fashion show. And I know a lot of people like hate it.
I hate it because it's not open to other people. But I think in my head, I want to do that is you have to be at some kind of level of recognized artists at that stage to be asked to perform there. So that's where my thinking goes there. And plus I, I think it looks like a lot of fun.
Rae Leigh: Done. Have you done any modeling before, like open too much fashion shows or
Penrose: Oh, I have, but it's not really my thing. I've done a couple runways?
but I've, I work in it is this little side hustle. I'm going to say side hustle, but Yeah. so I'm like a bit all over the shop when it comes to that. I think I really respect the modeling industry, but I think if I was a model I'd hate myself.
Rae Leigh: Oh, really? I, yeah, I guess it does take a certain level of self-assurance to handle the amount of rejection and comparison that goes on in that world.
Penrose: Yeah. Cause literally I feel like what you'd be selling or your product is literally yourself. And I think I couldn't handle that.
Rae Leigh: There's a certain level of that. That is in obviously what we do as well. Which. Yeah. I don't know. I did modeling and acting for a really long time. Like before I had the confidence to sing my songs in public, that was one of those things that I thought I knew. I knew deep down. I wanted to be a singer songwriter, probably a bit like you, like I knew it was something I wanted to do.
I just wanted to do it right.
Penrose: Yeah,
Rae Leigh: But then I was really shy as well. And like I thought if I can do acting and modeling and get in front of a camera, if if I can walk down a catwalk in front of a bunch of people who are judging me and what I'm wearing, that, I can do anything. And it was, it's a confidence builder, but it is it's you learn a lot about yourself and the industry.
I think when you do stuff like that, it's good to do things. Yeah.
Penrose: I think I've done plenty of that now. I'm just like, I just want to be locked in an office looking at data. I'm kidding.
Rae Leigh: feel like my husband is like an it project manager consultant.
Penrose: just using whatever part of my brain works that day.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. No, fair enough. That's what we've all got to do pretty much. All right. You're intimidate, you play an instrument as well as so running.
Penrose: Yeah, I do. I play keys guitar a little bit of bass and mandolin.
Rae Leigh: I love the mandolin, but you're not going to do, you're putting mandolin into your music.
Penrose: No,
Rae Leigh: going to make it sound a little bit country.
Penrose: There is one song that I did then I've created called a actually it's got a bit of a, I said, I asked Toby, I was like, can we get like a Chinese doll, bro? And he was just like, what? Looked at me. I was like, I've got this idea. It's a really cool rhythm that I want to put into it, but it wouldn't work with guitar or anything else.
And he's Okay. Which I could have used mandolin for, but the Dobra is like a nice, lower tone.
Rae Leigh: Okay, cool. So did you study music as well or.
Penrose: That's a negative ghost rider.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, no, that's cool.
Penrose: Yeah, like I
Rae Leigh: attending.
Penrose: I wanted to go to the Olympics. That was my dream. Still do. Hopefully that happens as well.
Rae Leigh: no Tokyo, apparently. I don't know. I don't know if anyone's going to that one.
Penrose: Yeah, but yeah, I wanted to be an Olympic horse rider and then left school to do construction.
So then I could do that and yeah. And then just had a pretty, pretty serious horse accident and then just wanted to okay, let's start again. And then. I think I went to an open mic night in Sam worth because one. of my friends at the time, It's you can sing one, you get up. And I was like, okay.
And then just, I think Adam acquisi just happened to be in the crowd at the time. And like just showed me, introduced me to a lot of people. And that's where I was like, okay, this could be cool, but Yeah.
And then I just had to move to Sydney to figure out what I was making.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, that's really cool. I know a few people that have had other careers and, had a serious accident and it's not that's ever really a good thing, but it's been the catalyst to changing the direction of one's path.
Penrose: Yeah, I think if I was younger, I would have. Chosen music from the start that I think I did not have a very easy time in high school. So my getaway was with my horses, so I could just be out of school and not have to go and be around them. So I just wanted to not be near anybody in even coming to the.
The perspective of she can sing. Like I would have been terrified if anybody knew that I could sing, like in high school. I would've been like nah, some someone's telling you lies.
Rae Leigh: I feel like you're speaking my language. Like a social guy, but like singing in the shower, absolutely singing in public. She, I actually got convinced to sing at my high school graduation. I dunno how they convinced me to do. I think I thought because I was never going to see anyone ever again,
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: it was okay.
And then it was just me and a girl playing piano. And then afterwards someone was like, oh, I love that acapella. And I'm like, what you, what do you mean? And he's I found out after the fact, thank God that no one could hear the piano. It wasn't plugged in. It was like one of the most, and it would've been over a thousand people that is so embarrassing.
One of the most embarrassing moments of my life anyway.
Penrose: surely not some people that like would really know music and be like, wow, these skills really in time.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And confident.
Penrose: Yeah. That too.
Rae Leigh: Okay. We know you want to do music now, is this like, is this it now for you? You reckon?
Penrose: What? Just music?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Do you reckon that's the goal, like getting music full business up and running travel the world, play Victoria secret runway. Along with, if you do that, you're probably going to be booking yourself at multiple places around the world.
Let's just be honest. So what do you think what do you think your audience and your fans and your I don't know if you've done this as a part of your business structure, but like working out who are the people that you're going to connect with? Who is that person?
Penrose: think I will always probably be discovering that cause it could be a totally different audience than what we currently predict. Cause it's still really early days here. And I think I have an idea of the type of people that it would. But I think it's a lot to do with the sound as well. I think a lot of listeners they're either a one side or the other.
They listen to the songwriting or they listen to the sound and And I think I'm just trying to capture both of those in some way of having something that's really well thought out and written, or sometimes not even well thought out, it just resonates. It just sometimes it's what someone wishes they could say, but couldn't really string the words together on.
And I think if. If I was going to continue being a songwriter, which I definitely am. I try not to. I try not to think about what brought me to be one. I think about what's keeping me being one. And I think that's the biggest thing. We talk about our story, but all I'm thinking about is my future. I'm just like, this is what I'm going to do.
And I'm just really excited about that. And the music that I'm creating at the moment with Toby is just. Super magical when we're together, because it just, it honestly doesn't take very long like bodies talk. I think we finished, like when we did the base production in four hours. Like start to finish.
So we just like we've, I feel really lucky to have found somebody that can just click with my ideas and, move with me on that while we're writing a song as we're putting it down. And it just I think if someone actually observed us in a studio one day that like the Joel would be on the floor because I get out of it and go, is it actually Sullivan?
O'clock
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Penrose: Yeah.
it's so weird.
Rae Leigh: I was actually really impressed. I think like you said, yes, it comes into sound and lyrics, but I think you're onto a winner when you can do both. And you've done that with what he talks and. Honestly, I think that's what all artists are looking for because we can't do it all. We have to find people to work with.
And there are some incredible people that like literally write, seeing, produce master their own music. And I'm just like, wow. I have three children and a life can't do it all myself, but it, it can take time. And I think it's, I was actually really impressed with the production and everything.
Like you've really put an amazing team together.
Penrose: much. Thank you.
Rae Leigh: Did that, do you feel like that was a really easy process for you? Or
Penrose: What, putting the team
Rae Leigh: yeah. Like finding these people to work with or was it how did that all come about?
Penrose: I wouldn't say it was easy, but I think it happened. In the right way. And it was like when I was looking for something, it just appeared, but then I had to work hard to keep it. It's you have two doors in front view and they both open a new kind of analyze.
Okay. What's this one looks a bit harder to get through, but it looks like what I'm after. And that's the same with like my manager's Zack as well. I was. I think I was in Tamworth at the time, and I got invited to one of my friend's gigs the Wolf brothers and yeah. And I was just like hanging backstage and was, I just saw a bunch of people that I probably didn't feel like talking to.
And he was the only only person that I didn't know. So I was like, I'm going to go stand next to that guy. And literally we just started chatting and it wasn't even like music related. I think it was just absolute rubbish. We were talking about just, yeah, it was. Awful. And then when he finally, when I was like, oh, so what do you do?
Who are you? And he told me, I was like, oh, damn, like I know. Oh,
Rae Leigh: worked out for the well, obviously,
Penrose: it did.
Rae Leigh: Some chemistry.
Penrose: I, yeah, I harassed him for a long time going, I want you to manage me and we worked together for a year. Just getting to know each other building trust up, which I think, I don't know many artists that have done that or managers that have been willing to do that as well.
And I think he's gotten to know me and gone. Oh yeah. Yeah. She's cool. She knows what she's doing sometimes. I can be of help. In a way sometimes. I'm a bit of spaghetti. But Yeah.
He's definitely a massive rock for me as well to help me be guided through this really tricky industry.
So when you're listening, Zach, thank you for all your support and Toby. Thank you.
Rae Leigh: That's awesome. I'm really glad to hear because It's something that not only I've experienced with lots of people, that experience of having that trust in the industry, when you're starting out, like a lot of the listeners I heard and like me, just learning and trying to do what we love.
But in any
Penrose: getting attacked by vultures?
Rae Leigh: Yeah. And that's the, I think it happens in every industry, but I think it definitely happens in the music industry where there are maybe people that there was not that same intention. It's more about me and myself and I, rather than. Let's make some music and change lives, and connect.
So I think it's beautiful that you've done that and it does sound like it's divine timing and yeah, that's really exciting. So what out of all of this journey so far, what's the best advice that you've ever been given?
Penrose: Don't rush it.
Like just don't think that if you get your song out any day later or a video, or you're not performing on that stage right. This month, minute, next year, doesn't mean you're not, you're not any less talented or. Any less successful. It just means you need a little bit more time and it's really good to take time on things because when you do the rewards speak for himself and I think nothing ever really comes out good when it's rushed.
Rae Leigh: I love that
Penrose: that's probably the best advice I've been given.
Rae Leigh: he gave you that brilliant golden nugget.
Penrose: Probably a combination of Zack and Toby have going, you don't me going, can we release bodies talk now? And they're like, no. Cause this song was finished like over a year ago, so
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Oh I'm listening because that's a creative thing. Like I've definitely talked to a lot of creators and I'm creative, so I get it. But it's nice to know that other people also feel this way. They're like you write a song and you want to release it like then and there, like
Penrose: It's so exciting though. like
it's just,
Rae Leigh: what? Tell the world.
Penrose: something really big that, a lot of people would be probably impressed by. And, you've just expressed something in a way that. Is probably going to resonate with somebody or you've actually been able to put it down in writing, I think.
And I think that's why a lot of artists who are such emotional beings when they are able to write a song about how they feel, it's like, they just let it all off their shoulders and chest and they feel so much better for it. And just sharing that makes you feel amazing.
Rae Leigh: spoken like a true artist, but you're, but I do agree it is about making sure that everything's like, all your ducks are lined up and it can be challenging to hold back. But at the same time, it can be the best thing, because there's no point in having an amazing song out there that no one hears.
Penrose: Exactly. I'd rather people hear it.
Rae Leigh: That's where you're going to have the impact. Isn't it? Yeah, really good advice. And well-known for listening because that can be hard. That can be half of the
Penrose: Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: lesson. Yeah. All right.
Penrose: knows best.
Rae Leigh: What about if you were to give yourself some advice, say, you'll go back to when you're younger or you meet someone who's just like you, but they say in high school or something and they want to do what you're doing.
And I dunno if you get this, but I get this now that I'm performing, you get little kids come up to you and they're like, oh, I love your singing. You have a beautiful voice and I want to be a singer too. What do you say to those people?
Penrose: yeah.
Rae Leigh: your advice? What
Penrose: Oh God. Don't, I'm kidding. I think that's my first round. I was like, don't do?
it. No, I'm kidding. But I think I recently, when you said that, like getting a little kid come up to, I don't think I haven't had that yet. Cause I haven't really done any. Crazy call shows. But I did have a young girl once they, I think in primary school, they go, Okay. What's your favorite thing to eat?
Who inspires you the most? Like those and someone put my name down and I just thought what the, like I cried because I was just like so much, like people are paying attention to what I do. And I think if someone like ever asked me for any. Advice? Do you mean music or just life in general or
Rae Leigh: Probably more like some writing. I like, yeah, I think just this industry, because it is such an emotive creative industry and I'm a believer that we're all emotional and we're all creative. It just depends on how do we, it's another level to do it publicly and to share it publicly makes you so vulnerable.
Because you're essentially saying I'm human judged me. That is what we're doing as artists. And you have to be a very strong person to do that. And I think it can be a hard thing for young people to navigate. However, a lot of young people do want that because it's probably who they are that we're emotional and we're creative and it's such a healthy way to express yourself.
But yeah.
Penrose: depending on if it was like just a really young kid, that's maybe 10 or 12 that doesn't really like, know too much. And it's just learning though, and be like, all right, write down as many words as you possibly can on a page and then just break it down and then just try and make it rhyme. And that's, that would be the first thing. But then otherwise, if it was just someone a little bit older, that's knows how to rhyme and like kind of understands the structure of a song, I think would then be. Really get honest and look up things and get to know different rhetoric, words and terms.
Cause I guess if at the end of the day, if we don't all have the same understanding, we'll never, we can communicate, but we'll never have comprehension. So I think to be able to. Say something, but it to be recognized by everyone is very strong and powerful. You don't have to use really big words to do that, but if you're able to say it really simply, and I think that's the key as a songwriter.
And a lot of people like in songwriting is how sometimes it could be really metaphorical, but it still makes sense. You just go, oh, damn. I relate to that. That's probably what I would give advice on is just how do you, how does it make you feel? Just talk to talk about it. Like I've I find it really hard to write with other writers, but.
I, I find it easy to talk to some of my friends and just tell him, tell me what he did. What did he do? This will make a good song, which is a lot of my songs is about my friend's breakups or something that happened. Like one of, one of my tracks you'll hear eventually called never forget.
It's does just because you can forgive somebody, but you don't have to forget what they've done.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
That's true. And it is good to live with forgiveness, but
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: you should learn from it.
Penrose: Yeah. exactly. It's I'm not going to forgive you and forget about that. Damn. That's not learning.
Rae Leigh: That's. Yeah, exactly. I like that seat. It is about taking your lessons and sharing it in a different way and it breaks down walls. I think music that's. What I love about art is it's pure inspiration and really next to no motivation, you can just be inspirational and that's enough.
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: Yeah.
All right. You actually mentioned co-writing you don't like her writing or have you done much career writing?
Penrose: I do sometimes a lot of my songs have been primarily just written on my own, but when I do co-writing I find them really fun. Like I really enjoy them, but I think I found when I do it one of my friends, John, who I do a lot of my songwriting with, he's just I've just learnt with you once.
Once you get on a riding path, I just going to let you go and just work on like the actual production, because you just once you get on a song, you dislike, run down it and it's no one could probably say anything to make it any better or any worse. So we're just gonna, as soon as that happens, I feel bad.
Now that thinking about it, I was like, oh gosh. So that main, I'm a really controlling person. But I think I just, I, once I get on my path and I think that's really why I write more songs by myself is because I just, once I'm in my head space of writing a song, I just comes out straight after that.
Rae Leigh: that's beautiful is completely different experience to ride on your own versus with someone else. And yeah, I think it can be hard. I think it's different riding with different people and the more you do it, I guess the more I've done it, the more I've experienced, yeah. Some people it's super easy and some people it's like pulling teeth and then and then if you especially have different styles, so it's dating really.
You have to do it to get to know if it's going to work or not, but don't have to keep doing it. You can just do it once. And if it doesn't work, then you're probably not going to work.
Penrose: yeah. I feel fine doing it. I just think it's more so if I'm riding with someone and they just sit there looking at me. Okay, what's next? And I'm like, yeah. It's Hilton. I think I made a joke to the guys the other day, when we did a song session, there was four of us in the room and I'm, I wrote about they still will obviously get credit on it, but I, they can, they could probably say that I wrote every single word in that song, but but they're like when are we going to finish it?
I was like, whenever you come up with some lyrics
Rae Leigh: Yeah, it
Penrose: and they're like yo. Yeah.
Rae Leigh: If you're in the room, you get a credit like that's the role, but it's one of those things it's like sometimes people just being in the room and having a conversation that's completely separate to the song could inspire stuff and it can get messy.
And I don't know, I don't get into arguments around credit anymore. I've decided it's not worth it.
I'm going to change from whatever have it. So
Penrose: Yeah. I've had a few conversations with some people where it's I've kinda gone back to them. Say we, we were in a session and we only got a verse on a chorus done. And then I finished the rest of the song and made some changes. I've gone.
Hey man, are you cool with this? This has changed, but I've done a, B and C and they've gone. yeah.
that's fair. So I think maybe I've just gotten lucky there. I haven't gotten into any huge tips with anybody about it, cause I just, but I would always consult somebody about it first that would understand that and go, is it okay for me to ask this or am I being a bit selfish here?
I think I'm trying, I try to be really considered about other people's, Other people's work and all that, but I think as well, sometimes it's yeah.
that my credits probably more do there.
Rae Leigh: You have to be able to do that. I guess people will take advantage of you. And that's a good lesson too, that everyone has to learn. Like it, it's not the most comfortable conversation to have, but it's definitely. The best conversation to have before the songs released, at least
Penrose: I had
Rae Leigh: Yeah,
Penrose: I had one person take advantage of me in the industry. And I'm like, Nope, never again. That's it not trusting that, that kind of person ever again, getting everything written down. That is it.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. You don't have to name names or anything, but what happened when you say you got taken advantage of in the industry?
Penrose: So I was working with a producer and it was I obviously won't name names. I don't want to defamation suit.
Rae Leigh: Let's just experience so that we can learn from what happened.
Penrose: I being into the understanding of what, publishing and songwriting and the master the master cut of everything. I didn't, I, yeah.
I didn't know much about that at all.
So when I went into this session, paying this person, he was going, oh it's normal to give this person 50% of everything. And I was like, Yeah. Oh, Okay. If that's normal, like then fine. Cause I didn't really know anybody that I could really ask at the time to go, is this normal? Cause I'd really built a lot of trust in with this person.
So I was like, oh yeah, it's like a friend, I can trust them. There's no big issue. They're like, and then I think it was when I got, when I started working with Zach, when he was asking me about, all these, and then he looked into it a little bit and he's oh my God, this it could have gotten really bad if I like done more songs with this guy.
But Yeah.
And when I realized, I was like, oh my gosh. And then
Rae Leigh: And how would you, how do you know,
Penrose: yeah, I know. And I didn't, and I honestly, I tried to, reach out to him, like with kind of being there. Oh, sorry. Second. Like your name? not
Rae Leigh: but he's your man like yeah.
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: supporting you, who knows what
Penrose: guy.
Rae Leigh: Yeah. Yeah.
Penrose: And I reached out like, Hey, would you mind telling me or explaining to me what.
This is that you've put down here and this guy just got really angry at me for even questioning it. So that was a red flag to go. Not that's the last time you'll ever speak to this person. And Yeah.
so that was my awful experience. But that person thinks that we're all G and I was like, are you kidding?
Rae Leigh: Oh yeah. But you know what like that, and I've definitely experienced it with people and yeah. I am a big believer that asking questions or sometimes saying no. Even if it's just like a mini test on someone's personality is sometimes a good thing because it, I think that trip people will show you who they are.
Like they all, and always believe people when they show you who they are, because that's the truth. They might say they're one thing, but eventually the truth always comes out when it comes to personality. And I think that's one of the reasons because this industry is built on relationships.
It can be a long journey for a lot of artists because that trust has to be there,
Penrose: Yeah. Oh definitely. I'm a very trusting person and I think I still am. And this comes back down to the before it's just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's right. So I think. If something you're feeling a bit anxious about in your stomach or just, doesn't like, doesn't sit well with you as a good indicator to go.
I should probably look at this a little closer. And I feel like in an after, like after experiencing that, I found out even more people that have had the same experience with that person. And I just thought, I like, I was like, I can not let this happen. And it's the same with as like Jaguar, Don Jones just came out with a lot of things that like happens at her.
And it's I know? so many people that would have had the same experience happen to them
in the industry. And just if I ever know about any of these things, I will do absolutely anything to protect those people from that. And I'll just I don't care if I think I'm. Crazy or just like too hard on them.
It's just I know what this person is capable of and I will not let you get into that, like vulnerability there, because nobody's asking for it.
Rae Leigh: And that's why it is good to share. I think, because. If we don't talk, then people can all get away with stuff for longer than they should.
Penrose: Yeah, exactly.
Rae Leigh: and it's hard because I don't know, I don't know about you, but as a female and I've been through trauma as well, it can be really hard to trust that gut feeling, like that something doesn't feel right, but I don't want to be rude.
And I dunno. It's like that people pleasing thing that us females do.
Penrose: Yeah. Probably because our mothers gave us trauma or something like that. I think mine is in a way as a kid, I was just like, oh, they turned the lights off and under but I'm scared. They're like, don't be scared. And so it suppressed the whole, how I was feeling too. Don't feel what you're feeling.
So those kinds of gut
Rae Leigh: yeah. Like you have control over that, right? Yeah.
Penrose: we've always been told to suppress whatever we're feeling and it's not what it is or what it looks like.
Rae Leigh: exactly. And that's actually, it's hard to like then go back and trust your body and trust. What you're feeling, even if you don't and I've actually within the business, I've had to talk to someone. And I actually, I felt like a crazy person having this conversation, but cause I was like, I've really liked this person.
I think they're really cool, but we were working together and I was like, but something doesn't feel right. And I'm like, it could just be self sabotage. I don't actually have a logical explanation as to why I can't do this, but it doesn't feel right anymore. And so we have to stop. I said it doesn't mean it won't affect the future and you probably think I'm crazy.
But I just can't do this right now. It's not the right place or time or whatever. And actually he took that really well, which I was surprised at because I'm like I wouldn't take this. I don't think I sound like a nutty person, but at the same time I was, I think for me it was like learning to honor my body and what my gut was telling me, but that's such a hard thing to do.
Penrose: Yeah, it is.
Rae Leigh: You gotta do it to.
Penrose: Yeah.
Rae Leigh: All right. I want to ask you a question around your inspirations and then we'll be done. If you could, co-write a song under, cause you would like to run by yourself, but if you could co-write or even collaborate, let's say with anyone in the world living or dead, who would it be and why?
Penrose: Oh, man. I've got like at the top of my head, there's four, four artists and songwriters that I just absolutely adore. And it's like these people probably aren't very well known to, oh, one of them is very well known, but. The rest of them. I'm just like, if they walked into a room, no one would think any less of it?
but I'd probably faint as they did, because I've just I adore what they do and just really respect and enjoy it, but
Rae Leigh: Who is
Penrose: really hard draw between a guy called for Vance and Coldplay.
Rae Leigh: Okay. I know Coldplay, so who's the other guy.
Penrose: Oh, Sasha. Sloan is the other person I'd really love to. Oh, for events though.
Rae Leigh: Yeah, no.
Penrose: looking at my list. I was like, wait, what? Just confused myself, but for events. Oh my God. He is I think this is why Zach and I got along so well when he asked me who my favorite artist was and I said, oh, you probably won't know him.
And he was like, try me. And I said, four years, like he's mine too. And I was like, no.
like never have I ever met somebody. That's had the same favorite songwriter artists as for events. If you haven't listened to his, any of his albums, you will just you will want to cry yourself to sleep, listening to how beautiful they are.
He's a guy from Ireland. Yeah. Like you wouldn't think much about him, but he's probably been on some pretty big writes, like he's written for ed Sheeran, written for a songwriter like that, ed Sheeran but I love his stuff more than anything. I could listen to it anytime of the day.
He just has this beautiful way of. I've never heard somebody speak the way he has in lyrics, in a song. It just it's probably because a lot of my heritage comes from Ireland too. It probably speaks to me a little bit more, but it's just, if you don't like him, I won't understand.
Rae Leigh: all right. I'm going to have to, I might've heard of him, but I'm going to have to go specifically look because you gave him such a good route. Yeah. That would be awesome. I'd love to I love learning. And I'm terrible with names, so I will listen to a song and I'll know it, but I'm getting better.
If I met someone, like if I, I know that I've talked to I know you, but like actors or like people who have done stuff like my street. Pop culture knowledge, like it just doesn't stay in my brain. What do you think is a good thing?
Penrose: Yeah.
no, it's fine. Like I had to look up the other night when my part, the Toby came back, he was, I was like, how was it? He was like, I was just like having beers with interests, Alba. And I was like, what? Are you kidding?
Rae Leigh: Oh,
Penrose: Like some of these things that just happen, sometimes you just go, this is such a weird world.
Rae Leigh: Into yourself. Now that sounds like fun. Next time in Sydney, we're generally going to have to catch up and have a drink. That
Penrose: A hundred percent.
Rae Leigh: All right. Tell me what you've got coming up now. So you've got a single, I've got YouTube and I put all the links to all your socials and your music and everything on the description of the podcast and all the websites over entry stop com.
But what is coming up next?
Penrose: oh, my God. Okay.
So something a little weird. I'm releasing a song in a VAT a week also, maybe, it's a bit of a surprise called focus, but it's only going to be available for the first month on Tik TOK. So you can only listen to it if you're actually
Rae Leigh: so I have to get on Tik TOK and camp.
Penrose: yeah.
Oh my God. It's tech talks actually. He's better than people probably think it is. It's probably the best algorithm there is currently out there. And if it's really supportive of, whether it's an up and coming artists or just independent artists itself and musicians, and I just love. That for that fact that it's not, you don't have to have a million followers.
Like I just literally posted something, I think on the weekend, I'm know I'm getting off track here. I just posted it about some cream puffs that I ate and it got over 15,000 views.
Rae Leigh: All right. You've convinced me. I need to know about these cream puffs.
Penrose: All these cream sauce is so good. But yeah, I have, it's going to be coach focus,
Rae Leigh: Okay. Focus
Penrose: it's going to be my second single out. And then if you want to think a little further ahead, I've got no, not getting,
Rae Leigh: all music coming out. You're going to do shows you're going to do a tour.
Penrose: Yeah.
So we're just trying to lock in some tour.
dates at the moment, but I'm definitely going to be doing a show hopefully end of July at this stage. So once I get everything confirmed, I will release that, but I think it's going to be on the 23rd.
Rae Leigh: awesome. That's exciting. Cool. I'm just going to keep watching and keep supporting you and seeing what you're doing and keep up all the good work. Is there anything else you would like to say to people that before we finish up?
Penrose: I don't think I really want to say anything, but I think it's, if you're listening, then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Rae Leigh: I think so. I think it's been a good conversation.
Penrose: Got to the very Ocker accent does not sound very awkward singing.
Rae Leigh: I didn't think you'd have a very okay accident. I'm recovering from a cold, so I still have a bit of a smelly cat voice at the moment, that
Penrose: Maybe
Rae Leigh: ever watch friends? I don't know.
Penrose: probably just got my interview voice on maybe a few, get maybe a JD into me. It might change a little bit, but,
Rae Leigh: Yeah. The Tamworth girl comes out though.
Penrose: yeah, it comes out a little bit. So I think just Sydney suppressed it because they didn't like me drinking Bundaberg rum.
Rae Leigh: got to get into the gin and tonics. Sydney is awesome and I think what you're doing is awesome and I'm really glad that you've got. Some amazing people working with you and Zach, thank you very much for setting this up and you're going to be fine. And this is perfect timing. And I'm looking forward to supporting you and seeing what comes up.
Penrose: I really appreciate that. Thank you.
